namepeace said:

p.s. 1994 rivals 1988 for best year in hiphop, right?

vainandy said:

Pretty much.

check out NOTESTOSELF

http://www.myspace.com/notestoself

If U a Dilla freak, they also have an interesting tribute - TIMBITS.

namepeace said:

To be dead honest, I actually was listening after 1993. Apart from 2pac's All Eyez On Me & The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory, Jay-Z's Vol.2 :Hard Knock Life, Dr.Dre's Chronic 2001, Timbaland's Welcome 2 Our World & OutKast's Stankonia & Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, there isn't anything else about hip-hop worth praising after 1993.
[Edited 3/29/08 19:43pm]

Since you're a Badu fan, I know you must dig The Roots right?!

bboy87 said:

awww YEAH!

Here's My fav Hip Hop Group of all time !!!

ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT !

DakutiusMaximus said:

In my opinion, Rap is the mainstream bullshit that we hear all the time. Soulja Boy, 50 Cent, etc... that's rap. Hip Hop has a feel, a look, a overall warmness....I just can't explain it.

vainandy said:

There's "shit hop" then there's hip hop. There's a difference

TonyVanDam said:

magnificentsynthesizer said:

Spit or swallow all you want, but I stand by my word. Hip-hop is dying because shit-hop is killing it.

Because hippedy hop sucks balls

FuNkeNsteiN said:

There, I fixed for you

bboy87 said:

Timbaland sucks monkey balls

FuNkeNsteiN said:

I'd pay to see a video of that!

TonyVanDam said:

you wouldn't know hip-hop even if it reached out of your computer screen and slapped you across your gottdamn head!

magnificentsynthesizer said:

As if you would know any better! You're a 50 Cent/G-Unit fan for crying out loud. And they're the real reason why hip-hop will be "dead". And please don't piss me off about some freaking Akon or Soulja Boy!

ANOTHER THING:

Where the hell were you when Afrika Bambaataa was hip-hop?

How about Kurtis Blow, Mantronik, or Egyptian Lover? As least their kind of hip-hop was funky and uptempo in the 80's.

Where the hell were you when LL Cool J was rapping Rock The Bell? That hip-hop classic can still rock a party anywhere even in 2008!

Where the hell were you when RUN-DMC was THE first (to my knowledge) to use a rock sound for their kind of hip-hop? Rock-Box still kicks ass!

Where the hell were you when Public Enemy said we had to Fight The Power that be? And they successfully piss off a lot of Elvis & John Wayne fans with no regrets whatsoever!

Wher the hell were you when N***az With Attitude gave young people in the late 80's the courage to say F*** the Police at their own risk?!? Hell yeah, I remember!

And did you know that (IMO) Rakim is the real greatest of all-time? As a matter of fact, he was the emcee 2pac wanted to be like (as much as 50 Cent wish he could be like 2pac)!

But yet, I'm the one that don't know anything about "real hip-hop"?

Get the hell out of here with all of that jiving you're doing! You can't beat me on this subject of what is really hip-hop. It's sure as hell isn't today's shit-hop crap on FM radio or B.E.T.
[Edited 3/30/08 8:52am]

TonyVanDam said:

Well, I think Hip-Hop died in like '97-'98, well maybe not died, but its been on life support every sense. Outside of a few gems dropped by some amazing artists. Don't get me wrong, there is some good Hip-Hop that comes out today, you just have to do your homework and look really hard to find it. If you just listen to the radio and B.E.T, then you will NEVER find it...EVER. Because it isn't trendy to be socially responsible, it isnt 'cool' to be an upstanding member of society and talk about anything outside of the norm. Everything is just super regurgitated and stale, its partly the artists fault, but mainly the media (i.e. record labels and magazines) because they only sign and promote acts who they think will make them a shiny new nickel. So in closing, hopefully the genre will come out of its coma and return to its former glory, but if it stays on its path, then its destined to die.

Cinnie said:

Absolutely. Some would say it IS the best year in hip-hop.

TonyVanDam said:

I was exaggerating, but you're saying that the following albums aren't worth praising:

Midnight Marauders?
Ready To Die?
Blowout Comb?
Resurrection?
Stakes Is High?
ILLMATIC?
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx?
The Score?
Like Water For Chocolate?
Do You Want More?
Black On Both Sides?
Quality?
Madvillainy?
The Shining?
The Infamous?
The Sun Rises In The East?
The Score?
The Grind Date?
Bl_ck B_st_rds?
The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill?
Donuts?
Champion Sound?
Dare Iz A Darkside?
Hard To Earn?
The Main Ingredient?
MM..Food?
The Black Album?
Supreme Clientele
Enter The 36 Chambers?
Late Registration?[/i]

You sure you've been paying attention when you say that other than a few good albums, everything else, including these albums, aren't worth praising?

Could've fooled me.

Please tell me you're joking.


[Edited 3/30/08 11:44am]

TonyVanDam said:

I was there, son. And I agree with all of that.

But saying nothing after 1993 has been worth praising as real hip-hop is saying that your hip-hop knowledge, not hip-hop, died in 1993.

That doesn't discount what you experienced before then; just what you have to say thereafter. Many of the albums I listed are from artists who cut their teeth during the golden age.

Your argument is like saying jazz died with Charlie Parker.

Or rock died with Buddy Holly.

Or soul died with Otis Redding.

Especially if you define hip-hop by what's on FM radio or BET or Akon or Soulja Boy.

Come on, champ. That's suspect. You may know hip-hop, but you don't hold a monopoly on that knowledge, and many true hip-hop heads who know as much or you do would call BS on what you said.

namepeace said:

ALLLLLOT of people are (and have been) sleepin

In that case, you should be just as pissed as I have been about it since the early 1990s. I mean, a genre of music that you could skate and dance to becomes as slow and dull as something that old folks sit in a rocking chair and simply "listen to".

namepeace said:

I give your major credit for mentioning Jay-Z's The Black Album. That's a great choice even today.

The Fugees' The Score is a good one, despite that I wouldn't listen to the whole as much as I did in the 90's.

If you're going to mention Kanye West, why not bring up Graduation instead? Fair enough, it more mainstream than Late Registration, but at least I can dance to a synth-driven track like Stronger.

For Nas, Illmatic is a classic hip-hop album. But I like Stillmatic way better (especially for tracks like Ether & One Mic).

To be dead honest, everything else on your list is a little disappointing to my eyes & ears, not to mention that it too east coast-friendly (TRANSLATION: too afraid to leave the 95 BPM or less mark).
[Edited 3/30/08 18:22pm]

namepeace said:

The biggest letdown for me was when every hip-hop producer wanted to keep the tempo at the 95 BPM mark.

Yes, that was a great idea for Dr.Dre when he co-invented G-Funk (a downtempo version of George Clinton's P-Funk), this alone gave us The Chronic. But then all of sudden, the producers of all existing styles of rap (especially gangsta) started to do the same damn thing.

Sometimes I wish every hip-hop producer today would at least be like OutKast and experiment with a faster tempo more often (like the case of tracks like B.O.B., Ghetto Musik, Roses, Hey Ya, & Gasoline Dreams).

[Edited 3/30/08 18:39pm]

TonyVanDam said:

I see where you're coming from now.

Hip-hop became less about body-rockin' and more about head-noddin'. We can agree on that. I see why you liked The Black Album, because it has that tempo that you dig.

As for Nas, I still favor the original over a reasonably good facsimile.

I think you and hip-hop might have parted ways philosophically some time ago!

TonyVanDam said:

As you alluded to earlier, I'm more of an East Coast hip-hop head!

Well, I consider it a mixed blessing. For me, the lyrics and inventiveness of the beat have always held sway. We can agree that, other than Nation of Millions and to a lesser extent Fear of A Black Planet, there've been few albums in hip-hop that have moved the body, mind and soul. But as hip-hop became more socially conscious, and more (as in number) talented MC's started to step up, the tempo slowed. But I love it like that.



Well, here's a theory: once the New Jack Swing and so-called "hip-hop soul" eras began, maybe the true hip-hop MCs went the other way, slowing the tempo. Dre on the West Coast (let's give credit to Jinx as well for his early work), sure, but Prince Paul, the Ummah, Pete Rock, Beatminerz, No ID, et al. out East were doing different things with jazz, pop and soul as well. When G-Funk started to sell, everyone wanted a piece. Now, in the Hit-Pop era, you're right, the sound is virtually indistinguishable.

I dig the slower tempos of underground/"true" hip-hop.



OutKast has tried to pull hip-hop out of its sonic frame of mind. But over the last several years, several artists have tried to push other boundaries in hip-hop.

If and when the day comes that Hit-Pop dies, I think you'll see more body-rockin' tracks emerge from the hip-hop underground. But IMHO, genuine hip-hop, slow tempo and all, has been holdin' it down, or at least, holding steady, since the first golden age.

namepeace said:

OK, U do have a point with those examples.

So it died in 1995-ish.