It's now a year old and i STILL can't stop spinning it!

For those of us who are fans how do you feel about the album now you've had plenty of time to digest it!

For me it's still his best since Off The Wall.

With the exception of maybe four songs,I consider 'Invincible' to be a strong,well-produced album.All year long,I've been playing songs like "Heaven Can Wait","Butterflies","Whatever Happens" and "Break Of Dawn".Great album!

Would you believe that Eminem said that this was HIS favorite album of the year?!

DavidEye said:

Why would I dis-believe it?? He ain't special anyway,,

Butterflies-My best song.

Break Of The Dawn-Does anyone remember the rumor about Prince having an influence on this song?? LOL you can find it in the Org's newsletter.

Whatever Happens-I think DavedEye knows why I love this song

Invincible-The only decent FUNKY song in that LP.


He's now releasing a new LP, isn't he?? With some production by Irv Gotti where's Lauryn Hill's track anyway??

BTW he will appear in Mariah up-coming LP in a track called "Satisfy" produced by Jimmy & Terry.

Lauryn Hill contributed a track for Michael's album?? Tell me more!!

DavidEye said:

Ooh,,its old news. I thought you knew that!!

Anyway, they did a track produced by L-Boogie but it didn't reach the "Invincible". There're a lot of ppl say its a Stevie Wonderish style(a la-All That I can say by Mary J Blige) but somehow,,,well 'sigh' I got 1 word---"Sony". MJ and L-Boogie were upset becoz it wasn't released.

MJ did tracks with:

Lauryn Hill

Will Smith

Jay-Z(I think it will appear in his fourthcoming one according 2 his interview with MTV)

Mariah Carey

Prince(Rumor like everbody know)

Jimmy & Terry

DC-3

But none of them saw the light except the Santana track.

PPL say he worked with D'Angelo but I don't think its true

Kinda fucked up huh??

I knew Lauryn was a huge MJ fan,but I didn't know she submitted a song for him.Hopefull,they will re-work it for his next album.

yep Layuren Hill,Will Smith,Jay Z,Lenny Kravitz,Jam&Lewis,Devante Swing,Keith Sweat,Mariah Carey,Prince,.Michael Likes D'angelo's Stuff.didn't hear anymore on it though.Michael did stuff with David Foster,Carol Beyer Sager,other things with Teddy Riley,Leon Sylvers,Neptunes,Babyface,Andre Croutch,Brian Mcknight,&there were Rumored Duets MJ had in the Can as well but I don't know if they will see the Light of day.

I still dig the same Songs as Much as I did Last Year."WhatEver Happens" Alone is Better than that Whole Carlos Santana Album out Now IMHO."Butterflies"Break Of Dawn""Heaven Can Wait",still are Cool IMHO.if you took MJ's 6 Best Songs off "Invincible"&Put them on anybody else's Album that Album would Be Huge&Go through the Roof.MJ though was dealing with Record Label Politics&whatnot.but He easily has 4-5 Songs that alone could hang with anything that gets Radio Play nowadays IMHO&was Better as well.Mike Knows He Can Blow Busters Away but I think He is tried&Frustrated at all the Politics&the Game.

THE LAURYN HILL TRACK WAS ENTITLED...

"This Is Our Time"

Funnily enough I was thinking of this topic just a few days ago.

Invincible is a good record but is four tracks too long. Out go the bland ballads 'Don't Walk Away' (Cheers Babyface! How on earth did this song replace 'Shout'?) and 'You Are My Life'. 'Privacy' is also pointless simply because nobody cares enough to invade Michael's privacy these days. 'Invincible' is OK but a poor title track (even weaker than 'Dangerous') and I'm not the greatest fan of 'Speechless' and 'The Lost Children'. The rest of the LP is of the highest order!

Btw, here are some of the other names who worked on the 'Invincible' project but failed to make the final cut:
Sisqo (Dru Hill), Puff Daddy/Mase, Mark C. Rooney, Monica Mancini, Jermaine Dupri, DJ Scratch, Dave "Jam" Hall, Ar Rahman, Wyclef Jean, Boyz II Men, Emilio Estefan Jr., Rick "Dutch" Cousin, Desmond Child, Jay-Z, Walter Afanasieff, Sidney Fine & The Ray Charles' Choir, Carsten Schack, Kenneth Karlin, Warren Riker, Fats, Swizz Beatz, Ludacris, and Kevin "Shek'spere" Briggs.

papaa said:

Fats was on the Record.The Lenny Kravitz track was Considered just Alright By Michael&didn't make the Cut.Melik Pendelton(Misspelled) also was Rumored too Be working with MJ.Swizz Beats wasn't gonna be on the Album MJ was suppose too Do 3 Tracks for His Album.Jay Z was gonna have MJ on the Re-Mix Of"Girls,Girls,Girls".Wyclef was long ago Cut from the Project.Puffy was Kicked out of the Studio.

LOL I laugh at "King Of Jokers", do nobody remembers that he ask European boybands Westlife and A1 to write his new album too and they can't even write their owns!

Hes no talent.

Tibor said:

Not true. Westshite don't even come into the equation. A1 do write their own songs (though not all) and submitted some to him and never heard any feedback.

BTW, 'Soldier's Entrance' is supposed to be a great song (from feedback I've heard), written and produced entirely by MJ. I know someone who has it but he is legally restricted from sharing it. If it doesn't get officially released I suspect it will surface on the internet. The leaks of 'Serious Effect' [from 1990] and the original demo of 'State of Shock' [with Freddie Mercury] that came about earlier this year were suspected to be let out by Michael for a little treat (if that's what you call it, cos SE was pretty lame with the LL Cool J rap).

There's another song called 'Fall Again' which has been described as one of his best, but I believe the vocals didn't get finished. I don't know why, because he recorded Billie Jean in one take. Damn his perfectionsim. A blessing at one point because the production on everything he's done since Off The Wall has barely dated a bit (OTW and Dangerous production in particular sounds better than most stuff around now), but I think he gets carried away at times and forgets that simplicity can be beautiful.

Also, the Irv Gotti stuff is not confirmed. In fact, Gotti had a meeting with MJ and wanted to get to work straight away. He told MTV that Michael told him that he does not have a studio at his home (where they met). Gullible prick obviously hasn't paid attention to various interviews with producers and even Lisa Marie Presley over the years, always mentioning the studio at Neverland. Me-thinks MJ was trying to get rid of him

I don't like it. I liked it when it first came out, but now I find the lyrics childish, almost to the point of being unbearable to listen to. I would agree that it's well-produced though.

Ellie said:

MJ doesn't hold alot of Respect for Today's Producers&whatnot.He toys alot with them&they are Awestruck too even dare Challenge Him in the Studio.sometimes things work but more often than not they fall short.Michael has been known too start Projects&Stock Pile Material&then just Elminate it or just go into another direction.I'd still like too Hear that Classical Based Material He Has that Janet Jackson Mentioned in Q Magazine back in 93.the Cat does More than Folks would even believe."Serious Effect" Sounded like a Cross Between a JB Song&Riff&Slick Rick's "Teenage Love" with Aight Results at Best.I think MJ is gonna Release alot of stuff on Line.did you ever hear "I Really Care 4 The Kids"??that song came out on the Underground late 93 early 94.I wonder if Sony will Ever Drop His Christmas Album? I didn't make that Up MJ was kinda forced into that one.The Cat at the time didn't even Celebrate the Holiday.alot of MJ Tracks Floating.

Or what about the 'Deacde' album that was supposed to come out before Dangerous? It was before the HUGE contract was signed, and before he had decided on doing another massive full on studio album. It was shelved but he DID record all those old songs. I think 'Never Can Say Goodbye' was definitely re-recorded with his adult voice. I'm not sure what others though.

Ellie said:

yep Decade was due too Drop in 89.He did Re-Record all those Older Tracks Including "I'll Be There".

Ellie said:

'Fall Again' is a Latin-flavoured number which was co-produced by Walter Afanasieff (previously worked with Celine Dion). I presumed that the track was cut in favour of 'Whatever Happens'.

papaa said:

Damn,no wonder it cost $30 million to make that album,with all those producers/songwriters not to mention the studio time! I'd be interested in hearing the rejected tracks though.

mistermaxxx:
I read an interview where Puff Daddy was criticizing Michael's production technique! The cheek!!

DavidEye:
Likewise. I've always had the suspicion that some of the better tracks don't make the final cut. Michael has far too many people to please.

a year later and I still don't like the album,
I admit that he is a good singer and has some very cool songs, but they're not on this album!

End.
[This message was edited Mon Jan 27 10:09:37 PST 2003 by PeterJL121]

papaa said:[quote]mistermaxxx:
I read an interview where Puff Daddy was criticizing Michael's production technique! The cheek!!
quote] That was because Michael is a songwriter and Puffy is basically a remixer/sampler. When MJ writes a song he has said many times that he starts out with a melody in his head. So when he records songs he lays the music down first. Puffy had a disagreements with him because he likes to do it all at once in little bits. But I don't believe he knows anything about writing or producing a melody from scratch.

It's interesting hearing MJ talk about his music, like the 1993 plagarism court case when he had to describe exactly how he came up with the idea for some songs (I think it was The Girl Is Mine, Dangerous and We Are The World, but he described how he wrote Billie Jean too). These days he says he strats with a rhythm or a beat. There's a great clip of him in the studio on the intro to the Prime Time Live interview and he's beatboxing away to '2 Bad'. It takes you back because the prick doesn't often show his raw talent, and when he does it really is something else (e.g 1996 World Music Awards and the unprecendented acappella minus the microphone!)

DavidEye said:

it never Cost that Much.MJ told Sony too show the Audit Books on there 30 Million tag.they could never show that Loot.take my word if a Record Label spends 30 Million on a Project they aren't gonna Sabotage it&be all Open with It.

papaa said:

I Heard Mike Kicked Puffy's Ass out of the Studio within a Week.

Yeah, and Puffy had to settle to working with a Jackson who'd do what he told them to do

BTW, it's true about MJ asking Sony to show him their audits. They claimed to have spent $25m on promotion too, yet HIStory famously got HUGE promotion of $30m. Compare HIStory with about 6 singles, MAJOR adverts, a world stadium tour and those feckin statues. It's quite impossible that the extra $5m difference would have stretched that far,

Soundz like Sony really have fucked him over big time,

I hope his next album goes thru the roof!

I got 'State of shock' with Freddie Mercury off Kazaa.Why The hell did he end up doing the song with Jagger?! I mean Freddie's version woulda kicked.

I heard MJ and Queen recorded a few songs together and the remaining members of Queen wanted to release them.Unfortunately Michael dug his heels in about that and they're yet to see the light of day.

and 'serious effect' with LL is good too,it would have been OK if it found a place on Dangerous.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 29 13:12:22 PST 2002 by Thecherryloon]

That's right. There was 'State of Shock', 'There Must Be More To Life Than This' and 'Victory' from what we know of.

TMBMTLTT is available online. There's a version with MJ singing it alone with Freddie playing the piano and one with them singing it together. Both are rough demos though. Watch it, there's fake one of the duet that was created before the proper one surfaced. It just takes MJ's solo vocals and mixes it with Freddie's original recording of the song.

As I said, it's very rough. I don't think MJ was really trying until the climax. Sounds like he's reading the music and singing it for the first time without having heard it before.