And you know what else? The minute we make someone feel stupid, they disappear off the face of this earth.

Annika said:

Thanks for the different perspective. I am not a big MJ fan, so my knowledge of his work does not run as deep as what I know of Prince's. So, you make a valid point when one examines MJ's non-relationship related material. I think he cares about the world and kids, that comes across in his music that I have heard. I don't no much about his pain or rage, but I can see the paranoia in songs like "Leave Me Alone" and "Scream."

bella, I think you would like his song Morphine, especially the bridge, tell me what you think.

midnightmover said:[quote]

marnifrances said:

As people have said, they remember ads from before the event, anyway, it's proof enough for the other people in this thread...if I find something I'll post it.

I'm soooo upset, boohoo, I am crying. Michael must have lost his voice sometime in the 70's though, because he lip synced plenty of performances as part of the J5 and Jacksons.

i'm out.

alphastreet said:

Thanks. I never heard of this song before. I checked it out on youtube. Unfortunately, I really couldn't get into it. Although, the bridge of the song was interesting. I actually like MJ's more mellow stuff, I think those kinds of songs better showcase his vocal ability.

marnifrances said:

Michael NEVER lip-synched in concert before 1988. You know that as well as I do. You guys are so used to deceiving yourselves you don't even know when you're doing it.

alphastreet said:

Funny how with all the fanatics around here, absolutely no-one can provide any proof of that. I think you may be confusing fan-talk and rumours with official announcements.



As always you're ignoring facts. If his voice was just out of shape then that would have improved on tour, but it didn't. It got worse on tour and he lip-synched more and more, so your theory does not stand up. Please try and find a brain cell. Is it just a coincidence that the songs he struggled with in rehearsal were the ones he decided to lip synch? Like your colleagues you are COMPLETELY unable to explain why he lip-synched on the tour. That failure is because you can't stand to face the obvious truth. Come back to me when you've got a logical answer to that question. I'll be waiting.
[Edited 3/28/08 12:37pm]

I really hate it when people begin calling eachother mean names and stuff. "Get a brain cell" etc... that's ridicilous. I think we can talk about Mj but why do we have to quarrel?

Life is very short and there's no ti-hi-hi-hi-hime for fussing and fighting, my friend!

graecophilos said:

Absolutely.

graecophilos said:

I agree!

I did have a massive response, but have deleted it simply because i realize that this is flaming. There's no point.
[Edited 3/28/08 20:16pm]

I love the way everyone completely ignored my point and focused instead on one little sentence. Great diversion tactic there. Did anyone even understand the point? I don't think so, and for that reason I can't apologize for questioning anyone's brain power. This is not Einstein's Theory of Relativity here. It's a very simple point. Michael was not out of practise. If that was the problem then it would have been resolved by the time he completed a few shows, but it wasn't, was it? In fact his voice got worse the more singing he did, and so he started miming more. Until one of you has the honesty to face this point, then your position can only be laughed at.
[Edited 3/29/08 10:11am]

midnightmover said:

MM, I don't think anybody cares now

bboy87 said:

Sure, but don't expect anyone outside of fan-world to take you seriously when you refuse to even acknowledge simple facts. This is why you guys have the reputation you do.

midnightmover said:

I don't think any fans off the internet were connected to any radio stations in Toronto. And I thought we already agreed his voice sucked on the HIStory tour, YOU get a brain cell and stop having a selective memory!
[Edited 3/29/08 12:02pm]

alphastreet said:

If an official announcement had been made then it wouldn't just be restricted to a radio station in Toronto.



Errr, hate to burst your bubble, but we're not talking about the History Tour, we're talking about the Dangerous Tour. That's where the clip I posted came from, remember?

midnightmover said:

I'm sure the same kind of stuff was also in Detroit, Buffalo etc. too, but I was hearing 2 different things. It's his birthday and that he will be getting a special artist of the millenium award. I agree his voice was not the best during dangerous either, he sounded so tired on billie jean, and I myself was disappointed that songs like will you be there were lip synched when he could have easily been sung in his sleep. And I hate that human nature performance. I have my share of performances I like and performances I can't stand, and I think every fan does too, but won't admit it.

alphastreet said:

But you saw the rehearsal footage. He couldn't get the high notes. That's why he mimed it on tour. I don't like to say this, but it's just.....logic.

midnightmover said:

I always tought he didn't hit those high notes just to save his voice...as it was just "rehearsals".


And yes his voice has gotten worse, everybody knows that.

Rodney said:

Save his voice for what? He mimed half the tour.

midnightmover said:

Actually, you're the one ignoring what people are saying. That's why we simply don't care any more. And you're purposefully argumentative. Why bother trying explain something, even with back up when you're just gonna be called "stupid" or "blind".

It was JUST rehearsals for God's sake. I save my voice while doing rehearsals. As said before, it's a known fact MJ had nodules and severe vocal problems on the tour, which is probably his reason for miming.

I also NEVER said "lip synced tours since the 70's", I said "lip syncing performances since the 70's"

No one's disputing he mimed on tours, it's that no one knows for sure why. If we could ask Michael personally then we would know. Dangerous he definitely has voice problems. Bad tour he also canceled shows in LA dude to vocal chord problems. Also, I don't see anyone disputing that his live singing voice has got worse. I am not sure what your point is or what you want to know. If you're trying to make MJ fans out as in denial or dumb, it's not really working lol.

I'm performing tomorrow somewhere and even I'm saving my voice. Though I'm singing, it doesn't come out entirely until I feel the energy of the room and am in a big space. I can see why he does it, although I'm NOT making an excuse for him either.

alphastreet said:

How many shows are you doing. Just the one or a few? or show after show for the next two years?

I can see why ANY singer would do it (lip sync), not that I am making excuses either. After 4 or 5 songs over an hour, once a week, I practically lose my voice. I have no idea how on earth touring singers do it TBH.

DarlingDiana said:

Just that one, although I'm sure I'll do something in the future. I just do it as a hobby when there are opportunities. I'm no professional like he is, but I know that people expect any singer in general to always sound powerful and just like they do in their final form, all the time.
[Edited 3/29/08 22:47pm]

marnifrances said:

Please name one point that is relevant to the debate that I have ignored. Just to remind you the debate is whether or not Mike's vocal cords are permanently damaged.


So you're admitting he mimed because of "severe vocal problems" on the tour. Good, that's a start, but you've forgotten something. He didn't just mime on that tour, did he? He mimed two songs on the Bad Tour too. He mimed 90% of the History Tour. He mimed most of the MSG concerts. Therefore the "severe vocal problems" were not just a temporary thing, were they?


You were making a specious and misleading comparison. You said "MJ must have had vocal problems in the '70s then because he lip synched performances with the J5". Since the issue is not about him miming TV appearances, but miming LIVE concerts, that is a devious and misleading statement. Back then he never mimed any live concerts so there is no question his vocals were in great shape. Nice try though.


Let's get this straight. You're ADMITTING he had vocal problems on the Bad and Dangerous Tour. You're ADMITTING he probably mimed for that reason. You're ADMITTING his live singing has gotten worse. And after all those admissions you say we still don't know why he mimes on tour, even after you just ADMITTED that he probably mimed in '92 due to vocal problems. LOL, I don't need to say anymore. You're doing all the work for me.

marnifrances said:

That's because you're not a professional singer. Touring singers do hundreds of gigs a year with NO lip-synching. It's not a rare thing. It's normal. Michael's miming is the rare thing.

midnightmover said:[quote]

marnifrances said:

Again, trying to make people look stupid? I have posted about the Dangerous Tour previously in this thread.

I made no misleading statements at all. I simply stated he's been miming since the 70's. Didn't realise there was a rule against that. Performances are still live by the way... (And I said it in a sarcastic way. I observed something and stated it.) Here's my original post on that issue.:



I already said something about the Bad Tour. I didn't forget about it at all.

Yes, I will say it again: We know for sure Michael mimed on the Bad and Dangerous Tours because of vocal problems. He has never, nor has anyone else in Michael's camp offered an explanation for his miming from 92-onwards. Yes, it seems logical he'd have vocal chord damage or whatever, BUT if he did, I don't see how on earth he'd be able to record the way he did. A few people who have worked with Michael have said that he records his vocals in 3 or less takes, sometimes one take. If his vocal chords are so damaged to the point of not being able to sing at all, then how can he record? Does that make sense?

9 pages and no songs have been released and we are fighting over whether he lyp syncs or not?


maybe it's time for this thread to be locked?


[Edited 3/30/08 22:06pm]