OK, I admit it - if you're going to contribute to this thread, you have to believe that popular music is absolute crap. For the most part, that's how I feel.

But aside from whether you like melody or not, ear-splitting guitars or not, drop-D tuning on every song, or not, harmonies or not, or programmed drumbeats or not, my real gripe is that the level of "musicology" is not anywhere near today what it used to be.

It doesn't matter what genre I listen to, I am simply overwhelmed by how much more talented and sophisticated yesterday's stars were compared to today's. Yesterday's stars knew much, MUCH more about chord structures and progressions, melodies, solo construction, and orchestration.

I think there's a reason for it, and I think it has something to do with musical study. In the olden days, musicians took what had been created and built upon that.

Then, sometime in the '90's, they quit doing that. They went simplistic and just stayed there. There hasn't been a ground-breaking artist since, well, Prince.

So let's assume all is not lost, and it is possible for today's musicians to get back to improving upon what their forefathers created. How should they go about doing that?

What do they need to do to learn the knowledge needed to grow as pop/rock/soul musicians?

RodeoSchro said:

1.Destroy Timbaland
2.Destroy Gangsta/Southern/Snap Rap
3.Segregate Rap and R&B
4.Make music fun again

This subject comes up in various forms here periodically.

~ Music Ed. being eliminated from the public schools.
~ The music industry going after the lowest common denominator and enough people buying it.
~ Along with a number of other factors.

What you're probably going to find after more responses is that folks that grew up on current music just want to enjoy it and not have it compared to music of the past. If I put myself in their position, I might feel the same way.

You'll probably get some, "It's out there, you just have to look for it."
If you work in the industry and that's your job or you're a youngster with unlimited time to devote to doing that, i'm sure it's true.

However, anyone that studies music, it's very hard not to notice a marked difference.
Bottom line, if enough of the public accepts it, it'll continue.

Happy to say that I grew up in a time where you could hear a wide variety of quality music just by turning on the radio.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

you lucky bastard

But I definitely agree

Not know chord structures? I've known them since I was really young, and have to know which notes I'm writing my melodies in, or else I will be lost.

theAudience said:

Well-said. I know, there are going to be the "What are you talking about? I know how to construct a melody" responses. In fact, I think I see one now!

Church, God, soul, old souls, parental influence (that is given they have good taste and the right influence themselves) ...but I don't think a person can go back and seek this out. It has to be there from the beginning.
[Edited 3/16/08 21:27pm]

Fuck the dumb shit.
Return to Forever is back!

http://www.return2forever.com






[Edited 3/16/08 21:51pm]

alphastreet said:

yeah, but today's artists dont know them .. .. and u have artists lip-synching in concerts .. cause the industry doesnt put emphasis anymore on ear candy (real musicians).. it's all about selling sex now..

Hip hop
Synths
The industry(prefab bands pretenders)
The net(myspace bands)
MTV, BET, etc.

These are the things beating the piss out of music. If we kill them all maybe we can have it back in the next ten plus years assuming we haven't been as stunted as I think we have.

There's this major disconnect. Even though everyone's sampling, imitating, and watering down music of every other era, people twist their nose up at the thought of listening to the actual music. The whole process of one generation having sounds and then the next developing theirs from that is dead. Hip hop killed it. It's been spinning music's wheels for years.

I'm tired of this "good hip hop vs. bad hip hop" bullshit. It's ALL bad. It was never good. That trash is NOT music and if you support it, you're a major part of the reason why music is shit.

OH and all this "hot" new studio technology just stomps on music.

It's always been like that. Many people in the 60s through 80s felt that the music had been dumbed down from the the great Jazz acts of the 20s through 50s!

The fact is if you look through the "charts" of any era, 90% of it is commercial trash, and 10% is the good oil. The only difference is that society only remembers the good stuff and we often have a distorted rosy view of the past.

RodeoSchro said:

I wouldn't go that far.

toejam said:

Basically.

toejam said:

Nah bruh. Nah.

The gate is WIDE open right now.
[Edited 3/16/08 22:19pm]

todays music isnt about being a good singer. production over shadows the artist

by production overshadowing todays artist since like the late 80s - present
is it more important to know who produced your ish then the artist ?

what happend to instruments , does will.i.am , timbaland etc even know how a piano or real drums look like? or are do they know them from a book like we know dinosaurs from books.

sampling is not being used in a edgy or original way.

how you look makes you a good artist? do you buy cds because someone is hot , even though there music sucks monkey balls.

what happend to B-sides being played on the radio and extended versions and acapellas etc. its just top 40 and nothing else.


and MTV is not about music anymore, you just see reality show after another


if all of the above would change, then there is hope

It'll be very hard to match the achievements of previous eras in music, literature, film, or art in general. There are too many distractions now and everyone's attention span is shorter. No-one has time to really devote to their craft anymore. They're sidelined by 24 hour TV, DVDs, video games, the internet, etc. I remember Sonny Thompson saying the reason there were so many good musicians in Minneapolis was because the winters were so cold there was nothing to do but stay at home and practise. Nowadays you'd probably use that free time on your playstation. People don't have time to let their imaginations wander either. Even when just walking down the street they're on mobile phones chatting to someone about nothing.

Look at old paintings from the past. Whether you liked them or not you could see there was skill involved, whereas when you see so called "art" nowadays it's usually just some gimmick masquerading as art which takes no skill whatsoever. Film has also been dumbed down in the last 30 years.

Coming back to music, technology has also made it possible to cheat. You don't have to play an instrument or sing anymore. That can all be covered in the studio. That means record companies aren't concerned by a lack of basic skills in their artists since it can be covered not just in the studio, but with fancy videos as well. This cheapens the whole artform and leads to a general lowering of standards. The producers also don't develop the same level of musical understanding that comes from learning an instrument and playing with other musicians. I could go on, but it's time to get back to work. I've been distracted by this website.
[Edited 3/17/08 5:46am]

You are so right, it's sickening. I have given up. I just don't listen to the radio anymore. All these lame, no talent acts that are out there today just aren't worth listening to. The crap, I mean rap, is just ridiculous. I am in my mid twenties but I was fortunate enough to be raised on the good stuff. There's a lot of music I didn't listen to as a child that I do enjoy like opera, jazz and world music. We got into that as I got older. Now what I'm going to buy all old music, people I didn't hear like Billie Holiday, Sara Vaughn, Nina Simone, Luciano Pavarotti. I love singers and musicians. It doesn't matter what style. They are a dying breed. It's all we have left.