Toccarra is not nor has she ever been fine or sexy. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

It doesn't help that when she opens her mouth that's such a huge damn turn off

BlaqueKnight said:

Today was my first time seeing this. I had to post it in a thread like this.

Dance said:

She could be fine if she gets herself together and tones up. But I agree, once she starts flapping her gums, all bets are off. No real man would put up with that sh!t.

Dance said:

I can see it. It's the puppies.

http://farm2.static.flick...40.jpg?v=0 (somewhat NSFW)

uPtoWnNY said:

See, she's not terrible or anything, it's just the way she presents herself and the loud/ditzy stuff that kills wood.

I mean, I guess that's just her or maybe more so because of her age, but...I don't see why dudes are nuts about her

She doesn't even know how to pose. There are girls who don't even have the stuffing she does and they know exactly what to do with it.

She always looks like a chick in one of those reject mags.

TonyVanDam said:

All she needs is some cardio and her vocal chords surgically removed.

uPtoWnNY said:

Here's what I said:



BlaqueKnight said:



.


Well, what I was saving for "another day," BK spent and left a tip.

Oprah and Queen La fit Sister-as-Mother motif for many.


By the way, CalhounSq, to answer your question: No. I think you jumped off further than my comments intended. More later.

If he said 'The View' is not hip hop..then why was he ON the 'View' last week?

He is damn ugly himself!

...

CalhounSq said:

"I AIN'T GON' SUGAR-COOK NOTHIN'!!!!"


.
[Edited 3/18/08 14:45pm]
[/quote]

TonyVanDam said:

Its not the boobs, its the whole package. Of the larger women on television, she is very openly sexual to the brink but not quite over the top. She actually has a decent shape (cardio could help) but she has presence and isn't afraid of flaunting her womanhood. That is the same quality that Vanity, Vivica Fox and Kelita Smith also exude. It gives them an edge because unlike many women on television, they seem to be just barely in control over their sexuality, ready to tear yo ass up at the drop of a hat. Many men find that appealing. How appealing varies according to how attractive the individual finds any of those particular women. Still, its that sort of thing that creates a vibe and an appeal that makes them marketable. Of course, Vanity was insanely gorgeous so she would have had an edge even if she didn't ooze sensuality.

BlaqueKnight said:

-----
I do not know any Mammys that are billionaires but you keep drinking your haterade.

what about Missy Elliot ?

laurarichardson said:

As usual, your comprehensioin is way off. "Mammy" in the PHYSICAL sense, silly. We were talking about PHYSICAL LOOKS. Try to keep up, k? Nobody is hating on your beloved Oprah.

BlaqueKnight said:

BlaqueKnight said:

There's a similar trend in the modeling field as well.

BlaqueKnight said:

Oh don't worry. I notice the hips & the booty as well.

JackieBlue said:

Nope. That's not what I'm saying, anyway. Whether us men are attracted to someone is different from saying that person is ugly. Badu is striking. La is pretty. What I was saying was, the source of all those women's appeal is their talent and charisma, not their looks. That's markedly different from women whose primary (and maybe only) appeal is their looks.

.

And maybe we should stop generalizing and try harder to understand the context, how 'bout it?

I, for one, could look at Cassie, Beyonce and Rihanna all day. But they havenn't gotten any of my money at the record store. Erykah, Jill and Angie have. Looking at a video of a beautiful woman and patronizing the art of a talented woman are NOT inconsistent. But the industry markets the "beautiful" types that men are attracted to, because they believe men will go out and buy their CDs. Not always the case. Heck, some beautiful women like Res and Ledisi can't get arrested in a record store. But that's for another day.

As for your last comment, I submit Jill and Angie's videos in response. As much as I love them, and appreciate what they're saying as far as their size not mattering, you sure do see them hugging up on nothing but modelesque types in THEIR videos. And I further submit Usher Raymond as proof to the contrary.

Not condemning what women like or want, but I don't think that your opinion is entirely accurate if you're going by videos as your standard.



I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your premise that looks matter in today's industry, and those qualities are required for most leading pop singers.

But come on. Let's not get too sanctimonious here.

Usher, Chris Brown, Mario, Omarion, JT, Holliday, et al? If they were built like Ruben Studdard they wouldn't have stood a chance!

Like I said before, the women have their own eye candy in these videos, but when have you seen women's "eye candy" in a video that wore a 40"+ waist?

Finally, many of these video queens have LARGE female followings. So are the men only to blame?





That's a bit of an overstatement. Men talk glowingly of women artists in this forum all the time on the merits of their music.

You're right on the fashion double-standard though. The women dress like women, the men, like teenagers.

namepeace said:

Speaking of Ruben Studdard, can someone explain Sean Kingston's popularity? Seems like another case of a man not being hindered by his size/looks. That dude is humongous but he seems to be popular. He has over 40 million views on youtube for his 'Beautiful Girls' video. I can't imagine that happening to a female that big in size on the pop scene. If a black female that size managed to get a record deal, she would be relegated to singing neo-soul or urban adult contemporary music..

I think female artists need to start going the route of The Residents and just start performing incognito.

I get what Snoop is saying but to say that female's need to start directing video's so the perception will change is ridiculous. That's insulting to men and women. It's like saying that men will always insist on sexiness over talent or that all women in the industry want to change the status quo. The entertainment business is in no way a reflection on real life, but it can change. It doesn't have to stay all about sexy women over talented ones. An apathetic "oh well, this ain't a soap opera" seems kind of like a cop out. If that's the way things are and it's not right, then try to change it. Male or female directing the vids, it don't matter.

namepeace said:

Uh oh. ^^^I didn't say that. But I did agree with CalhounSq that some men might be considering the f*cakbility quotient over actual looks. I know that's often the case off the Org but not for everyone.

Namepeace hit the nail on the head. I've yet to buy a Rihianna, Ciara, Mariah or Beyonce CD and I doubt I ever will. Their "music" flat-out sucks, and I find their voices annoying. They're great to whack off too, but that's about it. When I want real music, I'll listen to Roberta Flack, Patti LaBelle, Chaka, Erykah, etc.

namepeace said:

Actually that was my comment, & as general as it may be I'm gonna stand by my statement. Men thinking w/ their dicks is damn near the entire basis for the industry being the way it is today - "if she's sexy enough, we can market her" & yea, the women buy it too ("I wanna look like so & so, she's sexy & men like it!") but how often are women in control of the gate actually swinging open to let a Ciara or a Cassie in?? So lets not get caught up & sensitive here - everybody is to blame. The women who bother to front like they're singers when they know damn well all they have is a small waist & a weave, as well as the men who pretend to have any degree of integrity during any part of getting these girls deals when what they really should do is just throw them in Playboy since that's all folks want out of them anyway.

& seriously, I know you're not gonna try to take ANY woman to task over having male models in videos THAT shit is hilarious. Every female artist could parade 20 men around naked in EACH of their videos & we still wouldn't come anywhere close to balancing the scales in terms of who's being the eye candy @ any given moment. It'll never happen. Why the hell should Jill or Angie have some fat dude in their video?? Nobody would buy that as equality & nobody would care - they wanna show that they can still pull "the fine guy in the room" b/c they're sexy no matter their size. There's nothing to prove w/ men - y'all can be fat & bald & some woman will still love you, so who's ego would it massage to have the average guy in there?? Let's not get it twisted - when a man is in a video as eye candy, he's attractive & built. When a woman is the eye candy, she may or may not be attractive (imo), she must be Latina or a combination of Black AND anything (b/c light skinned don't cut it nowadays), she must have long hair or be weaved out, she must show her ass, her ass must be huge. The criteria is WAY deeper for females, quit playin'...



Again, I can't just blame the men. But you have to admit this shit falls overwhelmingly on female "artists". At least Ruben Studdard got to stay on Idol & release an album, a woman his size wouldn't have made it ON THE SHOW

PurpleCharm said:

I wouldn't say Kingston is THAT big but definitely if a female popstar of his age, size, looks came along...well..actually...it'd never happen.

I thought maybe Jennifer Hudson would do well but she's seemingly slipped off the radar since her Oscar win.
[Edited 3/18/08 22:00pm]

purplesweat said:

She ain't fat like that mf is Can that little fucker even sing??
Admittedly, I've heard about 2 lines from that damn song

laurarichardson said:

thank you. and besides snoop was targeting. SNOOP SAAIIID.... hell if he doesn't want to contribute but be all racists opopening his smoked out shrivled up mouth which is about as shrunked in as michael jackson's nose, chocolate skinned sistahs (not kelly or michelle or tatyana's color but angie stone and fantasia's color) why don't he help em out since he so all dat?

chewwsey said:

So now we're counting degrees of blackness? That's a slippery slope that heads straight to division of the community. We as black folk need to drop that Jim Crow bullshit altogether.
As I've said in other posts, the people at the top do this mess deliberately. They give the power to the Jay-Zs, Lil Waynes, 50s, Pharrells (yes, he's like that too), and so on and the cats like Common, Bilal, Maxwell and so on are forced to try to handle all of the image representation for sistas which usually has a much smaller reach. Negroes like PRINCE f*cked it up back in the day. Michael at least had Naomi as a lead in "Keep It In The Closet" and usually had various races and types of women in his videos. Anthony Hamilton had Monique as a lead reppin' the "big gurls" in "Sista Big Bone". There are always going to be those brothas that rep all types of sistas (Maxwell has been great at this) and then those that only have "hybrids" with tiny waists and big boobs and butts in music vids.
The one thing that has to be kept in mind is that music videos are usually about fantasy. The REALITY is that most dudes ain't fantasizing about girl-next-door types. They are fantasizing about "Miss Unattainable". That doesn't mean that's how they live. Look at Snoop's wife. She's a "wifey" type and not model-esque in any way. He does sell out by being part of the problem and pushing hooker images in his videos. that's the biz for ya, though.

BlaqueKnight said:

Preach! Tell it! Gimme 5 on the Black Hand Side Ya Dig!
[Edited 3/18/08 23:48pm]

MsLegs said:

CO-MUTHAFUCKIN'-SIIIIIGN!!!