Isel said:

You've really answered your own question here. Like you said, it's a matter of degrees. Madonna is still sexual, but it's more implicit rather than explicit, and it's not the main focus of her image.

She has also mixed it up a lot more than Janet. I mean be honest now. Even as a Janet fan, aren't you just the teeniest bit bored of her whole ten dancers on the stage all dancing together routine? I really don't believe that you can't see how played out it all is. I think you know, but you just don't want to say it because it would be disloyal.

midnightmover said:

Oh Ok.. That's what I said the first time, but ok. But I do "see" the distinction between the lyrical content and the "visual" component of its marketing. So that's a point well-made.

As a Janet fan, I'm not really bored because that's what Janet does. It's what drew me to Janet in the first place. I do understand the criticism about her music content--particular the emphasis on orgasms! LOL However, I guess for me, I guess I just don't see it in ALL of her music.. maybe some but not all. So I just take it with a grain of salt when Janet wants to get all orgasmic!LOL

I'm Janet fan.. just like I'm a Prince fan, ya know? They are unique to themselves albeit in different genres and also similar to other artists, too, while at the same time being distinct, if that makes any sense. I have certain expectations of Janet.. like I would Prince. They are both have had their misses as well as hits.

Now that's not to say that I don't think Janet (since we are talking about her) couldn't improve and branch-out a bit. But then again even if she doesn't branch-out.. Like I said, I enjoy the Discipline cd. I enjoy Damita Jo. 20. years old grew on me. So you see that's why it's a mystery to me why more people don't enjoy her,too? And when people say she's talentless or "tired," well she's not to me, so I don't even know how to respond because I DON'T THINK SHE'S TALENTLESS AND TIRED. To me the a comparison would be people saying Bonnie Raitt is boring for doing what she's always done, ya know?

As I said in order to appeal to the masses again--and recapture some of her fanbase if not all, I do agree she's really going to have to try something new to have a shot being a "contender" again. It could be as simple as Got Till It's gone: It's a GREAT song, and the video didn't feature her "chorus" of dancers, per se. It was more in a natural type of format. Or maybe a song with a video like Somebody to Call My Lover or Love Will Never Do.. I do agree with you all: Janet doesn't always have to push the dancing bit. Frankly, I don't think her vocals are all that bad either except currently they just seemed muffled to me, but maybe not to some others. I think she has a "pure" Sade like quality,but she could work on her resonance or maybe choose songs to emphasize that quality--like Can't be good--with that Brazilian Jazz vibe rather than always make it about a dance tune.

I'm telling ya'll I'm thinking Rick Rubin (along with Jam and Lewis) would be a great choice of producer for her because I think Rick could help her focus on what she wants to accomplish musically rather than just trying to be a hitmaker. I also think Herbie Hancock.. I was thinking today--Billie Holiday's birthday, right?--maybe Herbie Hancock could work with Janet on a Billie Holiday complilation? It's just an idea.. But you all see what I'm getting at..
[Edited 4/7/08 10:13am]

Right now, I don't think neither Madonna nor Janet give a fuck what any one of us is saying.

Timmy84 said:

Well they are multi millionaires, so whether or not they sell another record doesn't really matter in the final analysis, now does it?

But you might be surprised to know that some celebrities DO read their message boards, and take fan opinion into consideration.

I recall an interview where Johnny Depp said he read a couple of his message boards on a regular basis. He said something like, his fans seem to be able to "read" things better than he does sometimes.

So Janet and Madonna might not care, but apparently Johnny Depp does! LOL

Isel said:

Isel said:

But that's Johnny Depp and I could never say anything about him.

JackieBlue said:

Now.. see you're like my husband: he has no use for music artists who aren't musicians, vocalists, singer songwriters, etc., all of or just one of the preceding.

He would have responded in the same way basically saying comparing Janet to Bonnie is not even a fair comparison for JANET Bonnie is obviously superior, period.

But my point is about our expectations for artists. I don't expect Janet to be Bonnie in the same way I don't expect Bonnie to be Janet. I just expect them both to do what they do, period. If Janet wants to change.. fine.. but if not fine..because..Janet is Janet. I just don't understand people being bored with Janet MUSICALLY--or even the videos since dancer format is what she's been doing all along.

Did you see what I wrote about Johnny Depp???? Yep, yep during an interview for Sweeney Todd it think it was when Tim Burton and he were interviewing each other, and it was on the internet--Johnny said he often checks-out his fan sites.. just to see what his fans are saying. He's not offended so much by the negative which I though was interesting. It has nothing to do with JANET, but I thought it was interesting! LOL



Squee!!!! I love me some Johnny!
[Edited 4/7/08 10:32am]

Isel said:[quote]

JackieBlue said:

I like Johnny too and I do think that’s very interesting.

And you’re husband’s right! There’s no way to compare Janet to Bonnie But I do know what you mean about just accepting what they do for what they do.

I just really think Janet is in a situation unto herself. There’s no particular rhyme or reason because people have so many issues and then there are those who just love her no matter what and I understand that too.

JackieBlue said:

It she was Madonna Jenkins, she wouldn't be

Isel said:

This is fine, but if you're talking about why her sales are down, which I thought was the whole point of this thread, then her same old routine is a big part of the story. You have to understand that the pop charts are ALWAYS picking up new stars and dropping old ones. That's the natural cycle. Really, it's unrealistic to expect Janet to stay on top at this point, but if that's what she wants, then she needs to reinvent herself and surprise people. Otherwise the natural cycle will affect her as it has virtually every other pop singer, including Bonnie Raitt.

P.S. Like I said before, what Madonna has achieved is the EXCEPTION rather than the rule. Janet does not enjoy the same close relationship with Lucifer so she cannot expect the same miracles.
[Edited 4/7/08 11:47am]

Janfriend said:

And neither would Janet Jenkis, Mariah Jenkins, Bonnie Jenkins, Johnny Jenkins, etc.

midnightmover said:

Ok.. thanks.. You can be quite entertaining yourself!

Isel said:

I try my best.

JackieBlue said:

Or Michael Jenkins and Prince Jenkins. Stevie Judkins wouldn't have gotten far but Stevie WONDER did.

Let me stop... it's all in fun, Isel.

Timmy84 said:

Oh... No offense taken.. Carry-on!

JackieBlue said:

You totally missed my point

krayzie said:

I wouldn't say that. When it comes to Madonna, I would say she pissed off and was hated by most white american media outlets. She was disrupting and they didn't like it. She was discussed like she was some deadly plague,



But Madonna knew how to handle herself and to not give a fuck. 'Absolutely No Regrets'.

I always thought Janet should come out with a 'So what I did it?' kind of record as her response to the superbowl fiasco, but then people would say she was channeling Madonna, and Janet preferred to apologize for it. She apologized but people continued to harass her, and late night tv hosts walked all over her, laughing at her and talking about her like she was nothing. It was just a terrible period, and unfortunately its still shadowing over Janets career 4 years on. How would she get through this, when radio is ignoring her. Promotion is the key, hype is the key. Leaving promotion to the DAY OF RELEASE was a bad idea, then stopping.. Its confusing but nevermind.
[Edited 4/8/08 0:56am]
[Edited 4/8/08 0:58am]

OfftheWall said:

And There you have it, Madonna always holds her ground with her "fuck you" attitude. Janet tried it, got scared and backtracked. The only time Madonna backtracked on anything is the American Life video that got shelved cause of the Iraq war.

which was probably after the Dixie Chicks a smart move.

InsatiableCream said:

Bigger than all of those pop stars, correct. But look at the abuse hes been put through. If he was white he wouldnt be as scrutinized as he is today. Yes hes 'different' but reality is... they keep trying to knock him down, every new pop teen dream star is 'THE NEW MJ', give me a break. They can't stand that Michael broke the white mans records, and and thats the truth.

lazycrockett said:

Janet didn't stand up for herself, she let Dave Letterman and everyone just get their digs in. I can't bare to watch this because they are just taking the piss out of her and its not right. I was hoping Janet would say something, but she kept it inside.





Look at the difference with Madonna. Thats how Madonna got through the public bashing, and the critisizm. By standing upto people and letting it be known she stands by what she does, and shes doing it for a reason. No one has the right to tell you what to do, or whats right or wrong, and she didn't let no censorship get in her way. I don't know if Janet thought she could get away with the superbowl and just promote her album with no questions what so ever. She must have known these people would be down her throat, and I wish she did stand up for herself, and not let these people walk over her. TV show host or not, they were making her look so stupid, it was a breast for fucks sake. But Janet kept it inside. I was hoping she would release some emotion into her records, because it had to have bothered her, (and being a Janet fan you know she calls her albums her diaries so I was expecting something about the whole situation). But she didn't, she kept it to herself and did a fun sexual love lp.

I just feel if she stood up for herself, things would have been much easier on her. But maybe thats not in Janets heart to do so. She had alot of pressure on her because of the superbowl, but she had to have known she would be asked non stop about the it, and wouldnt just be on these shows to promote her album.


I hope that makes sense, I havent slept yet.

OfftheWall said:

Wow Janet's a pussy...

janet was being a lady not a pussy
this interview was pre-british maddonna- that's her street ho side

See,this just proves what I was saying earlier.Madonna has never gotten a "pass".She's gotten way more criticism than Janet ever received.I don't know why some folks think she gets away with murder.I remember during the Sex/Erotica era,she was being bashed left and right.The critics were brutal.In 1993,I recall seeing several "Is Madonna Over?"-type articles in major magazines.The reason why she's survived the backlash is because she's extremely smart and has a strong personality.She had a tough,defiant "fuck you" attitude back then,which Janet simply doesn't have.I remember seeing Janet last year on that news interview,where they embarassed her by asking about the SuperBowl.She appeared weak,with no backbone at all.

OfftheWall said:

Damn, Janet is so slow-witted. She seemed to think if she smiled hard enough Letterman would be charmed into changing the subject. This is the woman who was sold to the public as a tough, independent woman. What a load of bullshit that was. And speaking of bullshit, does she seriously expect people to believe "there was no dress rehearsal"?

Anyway, that was painful to watch, but Janet opened herself up to it, by so OBVIOUSLY lying. She couldn't adequately explain a single point. When someone is running scared of ANY discussion of an issue, it's because they have something to hide. Point blank. She's still never said anything more detailed than "it was an accident". Pathetic. Seeing slippery performances like that, it's no wonder America finally turned off her.

Yep, I always wish Janet had of said: So what? Here’s my other t*t, bitches!”

I hated that apology with those ridiculous eyelashes. The whole thing was a throwback to Michael’s first allegation where he made that “I’m completely innocent” video tape.

JackieBlue said:

i'm sure you've heard the expression "from different parts"- some folks just were not raised to act complete fools for money

it would have been just as distasteful as the titty incident

Evvy said:

It wouldn't matter what period it was, Madonna would not take shit from Letterman at any time. Janet is a spoiled rich girl who's never had to stand up for herself. Everything in life has been handed to her on a plate. That's why she has no fight in her, and can't handle adversity.

Janet on Letterman has always been cringe-worthy. He could have knocked it off at some point but I also think she should have handled herself a lot differently. The soft-spoken voice and the giggling does not come across well. She doesn’t come across no-nonsense or assertive at all.

JackieBlue said:

There were points in there where she tried to flirt her way out of trouble too, by saying suggestive things in that little whisper voice. It's like feminism never happened, watching her. It didn't work anyway. He just ignored it and carried on.

midnightmover said:

I know! If she’s comfortable enough with Dave to that, she should be comfortable enough with him to tell him in all seriousness that it was a topic she was no longer going to discuss or tell him concisely what happened and be done with it.