Timmy84 said:

according to this http://www.abcnews.go.com...id=4580730

i only need 3-13 minutes to save the world and get some Discipline.

Bjork, Loreena McKennitt, and Meshell have been filling most of my music lately

speaking of the article do you think Madonna had them hold that study until after she released 4mins so people would think she's an Oracle of some form?
[Edited 4/5/08 20:47pm]

SoulAlive said:

She's not smarter, she's white... Period

Everything is easier when you're white... White media play your music, white people buy your music...

Madonna she knows that... She knows she got a FREE PASS... That's why she can do whatever she wants...


No black artist would have been through so many scandals and still being relevant to the mass public...

She's smart my ass...

If she was black she would never get a record deal in the first place...

krayzie said:

oh please dont pull the race card

Janet well never sell as much as Madonna is because she's just not as good. or as popular. Madonna constantly reinventes herself and is interesting. Janet is the same song and dance for each album. thats why Madonna is still waaaay more popular.

and this is coming from a Janet fan who doesnt like Madonna

InsatiableCream said:

heeeeey that is your opinion... i believe janet has WAAAAAY better songs then madonna..... dances and sings better.. and well looks better... im sorry but thats my opinion...

i don't care if Madonna hypothesizes into a bug.. she still doesn't have songs as good as JJ.. nor can dance as good.. MADONNA could NEVER IN HER LIFE... create a rhythm nation like janet... NEVER...

TotalAlisa said:

i somewhat agree with that.

but what im saying is, in the general publics eyes, Madonna will ALWAYS be more popular and will ALWAYS out sell Janet.

Both Madonna and Janet should be commended for it. JMHO.

krayzie said:

oh please dont pull the race card

Janet well never sell as much as Madonna is because she's just not as good. or as popular. Madonna constantly reinventes herself and is interesting. Janet is the same song and dance for each album. thats why Madonna is still waaaay more popular.

InsatiableCream said:

because she's WHITE! HELLO???

Janfriend said:

if thats true, than why was Michael Jackson bigger than both of them?

Janfriend said:

if thats true, than why was Michael Jackson bigger than both of them?

InsatiableCream said:

Because he's beige.

Just joking. Whitney Houston in her heyday was selling really big records too.

SoulAlive said:

More than that, she wants it more. Janet doesn't. This has nothing to do with Janet being black or Madonna being white!

Is this really turning into a Madonna bashing thread....that's even sadder. Isel, Krayzie and everyone else.... Liking Madonna does nothing bad to Janet and vice versa! Nor does the fact that Janet clearly doesn't care all that much about selling albums...This is nuts. And the venom is so all over the place, it's hard to tell when people are being sarcastic, too.

This thread is hysterical! I always knew bullshit had a role in the world, giving merriment to all observers.

Because there are probably more white people that are Janet fans than there are black people that are Madonna fans, but hey, it's all racism?

SpcMs said:

This is still my favorite point on this thread...I didn't realize my preference for Madonna over Janet was because of (shock, horror) racism!!

Please, the woman's heart is obviously not in it. Why should anyone else care if she doesn't?

Axchi696 said:

Britney's heart wasn't in her music, and people cared about her music. Amy Winehouse is a mess, but people still care about her music, too. I don't think whether or not an artist's "heart" is in it matters so much except of course for Janet? This is the point. Why does it matter for Janet? If you don't like Janet's music.. that's fine. I don't like Madonna's and race has nothing to do with it. But when some bring-out these excuses.. like Janet's heart not being in it enough to "care," then why do other white singers like Amy and Britney get a pass, but not Janet? I think Discipline is a good cd. I thought Damita Jo was a GREAT cd--whether Janet's heart was in it or not. It's just that I'm not sure if she is going to "recover" enough from her illness to fully promote Discipline, and I'm afraid she might get discouraged if her sales aren't so great because she has been discouraged in the past. Plus, I don't think she likes the "grind" of touring even though she enjoys performing and rehearsing. However, that's separate from whether or not I like her "work."

And what do you think about the article I just quoted? Why can singers like Amy Winehouse "make it"-singing more r&b type music while black singers struggle?

I'm just suggesting that there is a racial component--maybe not for you, but for some. I think it exists in the industry itself, and I think it still exists in our society.

InsatiableCream said:

Because he's beige.

Just joking. Whitney Houston in her heyday was selling really big records too.

Isel said:

I'll give somebody a "pass" if I like their music. I thought Amy's album was amazing, so I don't care if she's all cracked out on the side of the road.

Janet's album was humdrum. Didn't hold my interest at all. And I think her disinterest shows in her music. That's what I mean; I think it's blatantly obvious that she only does music because it's what is expected of her; I don't think she really wants to do this at all. And that's fine. But I'm not going to buy her album then.

Honestly, the energy people waste defending Janet Jackson is insane...

VinnyM27 said:

With all due respect, you are telling me to chill? Why? In a matter of one minute I searched the net, and found many articles backing-up my point. This idea that "race" plays a part in the music industry isn't a new concept. It's not something I just came-up with out of the blue. Didn't you even look at that article? Well if you didn't look at this one, research some other ones.

As far as a "madonna bashing" thread. I brought her up as a point of comparison because I don't think Madonna's "music" is any better than Janet's. Frankly, I don't bow at the feet of the Queen Mother Madonna. I think she's WAY overrated--extremely. And I'd venture to guess a lot of people think she's overrated, too. Of course, her FANS seem to like her, and that's fine with me. But I am not one of her fans! LOL

Do I think Janet's "better"? Not necessarily. Personally, I like Janet better because she's always had more of an R&B feel. However as far as the type of "artists" they are, to me they are the same. Neither one are necessarily great singers. Neither one are musicians. Both rely heavily upon producers. Both have them have used "sex" as a selling point, and still do. Both use videos and visual concepts to market their music. Both use dance as a medium to sell their music. I'd say they are both "propped up" to a certain extent. And the reason Madge is probably more popular is because she has tapped into the "techno-pop-euro-dance" music scene for at least a decade, and Janet hasn't so much. In fact, Janet really NEVER embraced the "pop" sound as totally as Madonna from what I can tell. She's always kept that r&b feel. And I already discussed mentioned the "race" component which I think is a valid point: a lot of other people outside of this forum have written essays/articles about it, so that's not a new phenomenon at all. But it can't be discussed here for some reason because it's such a sensitive topic?

I thought this was a place to discuss topics in music as they relate to artists?
Well, this "race" issue is a valid topic. It is what it is whether or not people want to admit it, doesn't really matter.

But you are telling me to chill: why--just because I don't like Madonna, and I recognize the elephant in the room? Oh.. but it's OK to bash Janet. I don't think Janet's perfect by a LONG shot and have stated as much. And I definitely understand why Janet and Madonna BOTH aren't very well respected in some music circles. (My husband is a musician, and he can't stand either one of them, so there ya go!) However, nobody every told me to chill when I criticize Janet. It's only when I criticize Madonna I get into trouble. It's only when I suspect there is more than likely a racial component--even document that strong possibility, I am told to CHILL?

Well, you chill on telling me to chill! I haven't done anything wrong. My points are valid even though many might disagree. That's ok with me, but the difference is that I'm not telling anyone to "chill" with their comments about Janet. I simply suggested if a person is tired of Janet as an artist, then find another one to support, period.

FYI

Here's a very interesting article, highlighting the exact problem we are talking about.

African British Artists Are Looking Beyond Racism To Develop Their Careers


The recent revelations by supermodel Naomi Campbell and her former agent that the modelling business is racist, resulting in African models not being put forward for lucrative jobs or earning less than their European peers, is nothing new for many Africans in the music industry.

Four years ago at a Black Music Congress (BMC) debate, panellist Mykaell Riley, accused the music industry of “systematic, and endemic institutional racism.”

Except for Corinne Bailey Rae and Leona Lewis, no new African British act has achieved major success in the last two years. However, Britain’s best-selling black music acts are Joss Stone, Amy Winehouse and Lily Allen.

If African British artists are not shifting units, is it because of lack of talent, or record company dis-interest or lack of experience in selling black music fronted by an African British face?

At the BMC’s recent forum, ‘Thinking Out Of The Box: What We’re Doing To Raise The Game Within The British Black Music Sector’, artist manager and publicist Jackie Davidson declared: “The major record companies are dropping black acts. They are not interested in signing and developing black acts."

Davidson, who manages Wayne Hector, whose songs have been covered by the likes of Westlife, Michael Bolton, Ronan Keaton, Boyzone and Michelle McManus, later added that at a gathering of over one hundred EMI Music executives and artist managers, the number of African managers could be counted on one finger. “This level of participation shows that there are serious issues that need to be addressed.”

The forum’s workshops addressed keys issues, which included what to do to raise the game at radio and retail, and how best to deal with the music industry.

The ways forward included better training particularly for young radio presenters; sensitising consumers to the rationale for supporting home-grown talent; encouraging competing artists and labels to collaborate to help build a buzz or scene; the need for risk-taking by artists and record companies; and going the doing it for self and independent route.

Root Jackson, a 40 year music veteran, said the way to build careers was through regular live performances, echoing sentiments expressed earlier by Jazzie B, who said that after not performing enough during Soul II Soul’s heyday, he’d be marking the group’s twentieth anniversary with a massive tour.

“One white participant’s feedback was that too much was being made of racism,” noted BMC founder Kwaku. “Of course there are other issues to deal with other than racism. But when people working at different levels within the music industry all highlight racism as a career-retardant, one can simply not ignore it. Actually, most Africans take racism as a given, and just focus on working around it.”
By June, which is British Black Music Month, the BMC plans to have improved the knowledge and networking base of its participants through the creation of an online directory; music industry master-classes; two small grants for young, budding label owners; a records fair; and networking day.

http://www.ethnicnow.com/...reers.html


And just for good measure, here's a more "male" centric article;however, since women in the music business haven't evolved as much as men, black female artists are STILL being discriminated against.

http://www.newyorker.com/...rentPage=2

So, we aren't just making this stuff up. Apparently other black female artists/genres have had the same difficulties as Janet. Some might make the case that Janet is an "established" act. But the problem is that Janet is trying to make a come back, and sometimes that's even more difficult than being a"new" up and coming artist the business can exploit. So really, Janet DOES have a lot of obstacles to overcome--not even relating to her music or talent.
[Edited 4/6/08 8:01am]

Isel said:

Again, it seemed to go from a Janet bashing thread and morphed into a Madonna bashing thread. I just think that does nothing for Janet nor does it seem to about the album at all. I'm willing to buy any good argument about Janet being hurt by racism, but the first article you posted HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH JANET and made no sense (it implied that Paris Hilton's album was successful because she was using Lil' Jon...That's why my sister got a free copy of that garbage in a last year).

I think these posts have so little to do with Janet and more with people working out their crazy theories (including Janet and Madonna's music being written entirely by men).

Oh goody, I finally find something from Millie:



The following derogatory message is fully supported by the:

Timmy84 said:

Is that for me?

Thanks. I appreciate it.. but sticks and stones can break my bones,but words will never hurt me or stop me!!!!! B

But Vinny tells me to chill??

Yeah, right!!

AND one more thing: I don't tell people to fuck-off!
[Edited 4/6/08 9:41am]

Isel said:

NOT really you, this is to everybody who insists on arguing over nonsense.