This site has interesting look at the history of "early" rock music:

http://www.hoyhoy.com

This site reveals the truth about how rock & roll came to be and no it wasn't a mixture of country and blues, rock & roll was another name for rhythm & blues (R&B).

Also, sadly many of the great pioneers of this early rock era ain't inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Another reason to HATE the R&RHOF.
[Edited 3/10/08 14:12pm]

Influence begets influence begets influence.

I read the answer on that web site and I don't dispute a word of it.

Most people even slightly informed about music will recognize that the origins of rock and roll go back before Rocket 88, its roots can be traced to gospel, hymnal, blues and country (which even though this site disputes it, offers many rockabilly and uptempo rhythm based jams that could be characterised as rock and roll, on albums from the 30s and earlier).

Going even further back, however, we can find the influences of on those types of music from early jazz, and earlier, classical music. Many rock and roll songs basically stole their driving lines directly from the melodies and harmonies of great classical pieces.

The site is right, rock and roll didn't just pop out of nowhere, it took a long time to develop, but I think what's key is this same principle applies to those who the web site credits with founding rock and roll. It goes back, and every influence will be traced back to another influence, right back to the primitive banging of animal-hide drums and the grunts from our prehistoric brethren.

When rock became mainstream, a phenom, which happened somewhere between 1948-1950 is just a line I guess, that many people draw in the sand.

Yeah but it seems odd that people forget about the 1947-1953 recordings that emerged. Historians gave the artists performing at that time as "jump blues" artists with people like Roy Brown, Wynonnie Harris and Jackie Brenston when in truth those guys were "rockin' & rollin'" before Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Bill Haley and Elvis Presley were even heard of.
[Edited 3/9/08 22:25pm]

Good article.

Some know that the origin of the term, and who it generally gets attributed to as the founders, is not accurate.

As accurate as when Benny Goodman was crowned The King of Swing in the 30s when certain Big Bands were swingin' in the 20s.
And everybody should know what happened when said King of Swing's band went up against Chick Webb's band at the Savoy Club that night.

History, music or otherwise, is a funny thing, depending on who's writing it.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

With a voice like Ella's ringing out there's no way the band could lose!

I'm not going to dispute that folks were playing a style of music similar to rock and roll before Chuck Berry but in my mind Chuck Berry is rock and roll. To me the guitar is a huge part of rock and roll. When you talk about the guitar in rock and roll music Chuck Berry is a huge influence. I may be mistaken but I think it's safe to call him the first "guitar hero". He was a massive influence on most everyone who came after him and without him the course of music over the last fifty years would be very different. The Beatles usually get most of the credit for artists writing their own material but Chuck Berry (along with Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran and others) was doing that years before the Beatles.

As other folks have pointed out rock and roll is basically a combination of a lot of other music so it's impossible to say what the first rock and roll song was but when you listen to Chuck Berry's music that is rock and roll.

This article reads like a Black History moment for long-haired rockers.

PFunkjazz said:

Why u say it like that?

rialb said:

Now that is true, lol. But see, I don't even think anyone was disputing the legacy of Chuck and 'em, it seems like these people were trying to say "hold up here, rock & roll been exisiting, here's some of the guys you forgot". All of them who came through from 1947-1957 were all pioneers to me. I guess we'd never know who "invented" it because, maybe, there's no such thing as a rock & roll "inventor", lol.

Timmy84 said:

People don't forget what they never have been taught. I don't really think that anyone can really point out and say this is where this started at any exact point in time. Music influences music that influences music. I think it's more fair to point out pioneers than to any particular artist. But even so, pioneers don't necessarily carve out the definition either. That's done by who the pioneers influence.

superspaceboy said:

Yeah you're right. I guess you're surprised when you hear about music that arrived before that time and you always begin to wonder but it's all good.

Actually, for something as fluid as rock and roll, it's darn near impossible to trace the exact origins of it, since rock and roll was the sum of a number of different influences. Its blues roots go all the way back to Robert Johnson and was picked up by Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf, it's country roots can be traced back to the Carter family and Appalachian music as much as Deep South country music, and its jazz roots encompass the pre-WWII swing music of Duke Ellington, Count Basie, and Glen Miller, as well as post-WWII swing music of Louis Prima and Frankie Lane. Just as hip-hop existed prior to the release of the Sugar Hill Gang's "Rappers Delight", few people knew about the history of DJ Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, and Cold Crush; and rock and roll has that same ambiguous type of origin. Though most people know that rock and roll as a musical genre existed shortly after WWII, they trace the official beginning back to 1954, when the first "rock and roll" record, "Rock Around The Clock" by Bill Haley and the Comets, reached the top of the Billboard charts.

A decent resume' of some history in that article there.

I'd say that music that was very similar to so-called 'rock n' roll', or uptempo blues, or 'rhythm & blues' or whatever else you wanna call it, existed since at least as early as c.1935, being performed by both black and white artists.

Also, on the country and western music side of the fence back then, artists like Hank Williams and earlier, Jimmy Rogers (one of the first white performers to sing the blues on record) were doing stuff that could be said to be in the 'pre tradition' of 'rock n' roll'.

And then there's the input of swing jazz and western swing, which influenced a lot of rock/ r n' b artists coming out of Texas and the wider region. Bill Haley played in western swing bands in his younger days, which explains the vague swing feel of his rock n' roll records.

And we should never underestimate the huge impact the pioneering electric blues artists like Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf on Chess Records from around 1947 onwards had on the sound of this music. Chuck Berry was a Chess artist at one time, too.

The origins of rock n' roll is one greasy pig to skin imo.

Sometimes, I don't think 'rock n' roll' ever existed other than as a marketing term anyway. Along with jazz and other stuff, it was just the mongrel sound of 20th century American black and white folks acting, reacting, interacting and not interacting in a musical setting.

But I suppose 'rock n' roll' is a slightly snappier way of saying that .

While I think the article brings up some interesting points, to me, Louis Jordan was the king of jump blues and that was R&R

Let's face it.
Things like this are always decided (whether it's true or not) by how it ends up being marketed (as Miles indicated) to the general public.

A general public I might add that really could care less about musical details.

Even though I know better, when the term R&R comes up, the images that immediately come to mind are either...



...a cherry red 335 chuggin' (that signature riff) Chuck Berry or a piano bashing, whoopin' & hollerin' Little Richard.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Elegantly Stated TA!

theAudience said:

Yeah... there ain't no doubt those two men are pioneers for what they did for what happened afterwards. The site could just be preaching to the choir, lol.

MsLegs said:

Thanks.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Anytime, You're Welcome TA!

Timmy84 said:

Timmy, that's exactly what's happening.
Many here are not part of the general public in terms of music consumption or awareness.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Preach Brotha TA! Amen!

Chuck berry and Little Richard, to me, are to rock n roll what Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong are to jazz, they certainly didn't "invent" the music, but they were among the greatest early exemplars who helped define it for later generations.

there's actually a wikipedia article I think about what recordings are considered the first "true" rock n roll recordings. Rocket 88 by Ike turner and the rhythm kings in 1951 is one, and I believe it's the first or at least one of the first recordings to use distortion on an electric guitar. The Fat Man by Fats Domino is another as it features the 2/4 rock backbeat (played by Earl Palmer on the drums), although Fats himself will tell you that he was just playing New orleans R&B that had existed for years before (and that very song is somewhat adapted from "junker's blues" by blues pianist Champion Jack Dupree). "Roll Em Pete" by Big Joe Turner and Pete Johnson in 1938 is yet an earlier candidate, as many consider it indistinguishable from the more piano-driven 50s rock n roll, however if that's rock n roll, than there's plenty of piano driven barrelhouse blues/boogie woogie music as far back as the 20s that would qualify as well. the main thing to derive is that the roots of rock n roll go waaay back.

nobody invented any form of music

fcukthepolice said:

Interesting take on music. Maybe its just in the code(DNA).

MsLegs said:

It's in the cosmos; some people just tap into it

fcukthepolice said:

Dig it. Music telepathy on high scale.

theAudience said:

I agree. Great observations, TA.

jacktheimprovident said:

Yeah exactly. Rock & roll has been part of the American lexicon since the 20th century started.