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Joy Division/New Order If they could be considered one band, they would be the greatest, most creative, most talented band in music history. I know many of you would disagree, but I'm right and you're wrong. I cannot say enough about these guys and I'm continually amazed every time I listen to them. If you haven't heard them or heard of them, I strongly suggest you check them out. Here's a little background on each.
Joy Division- their name derived from the brothels in Nazi concentration camps. Misleading name to say the least. They started out as a punk band called Warsaw with their name inspired by Bowie's "Low" album. They formed in the wake of the Sex Pistols Anarchy tour after the founding members all saw the show in Manchester. When their producer decided to add synthesizers in the post production of their first album, the band decided to scrap the project. They hated it. Quickly they regrouped and began work on their debut EP, "An Ideal For Living". It was apparent quite early that Joy Division was something special. They became the first band in the post-punk movement by emphasizing mood and expression instead of the anger and agression common to punk. This laid the groundwork for all alternative bands to come. Their sound is almost impossible to describe but I cannot think of a more perfect, democratic setup than this band had. They achieved their sound almost by accident. When they first formed and were rehearsing in warehouses and garages, they had terribly cheap equipment. The guitar player, Bernard Albrecht, had to turn his amp up to 10 just for it to register. Either it was full blast or there would be no sound at all. And because of this, the bass player Peter Hook had to play very high just to be heard above the distortion. From this, they developed something entirely new. It was the first time a bass guitar had been used as the primary melodic instrument while the guitar was used almost as rhythm, churning out unearthly blocks of sound. And then there are their drums. I could have an orgasm just talking about them. Stephen Morris was so precise and lightning fast on his kit that at times that he could make it sound like a drum machine. The sound is so intimate, you can hear the drum tips on the drum heads. God! Heaven! Last, but most important of all is Ian Curtis. What a tortured soul he was. His writing style was so literate, human and real people are still trying to make sense of it. Lyrics in rock music had never been that emotionally painful or personal. Finally, their producer Martin Hannett harnessed Joy Division's extreme ideas into a sound that has never been heard before or since. The use of space in the mix is breathtaking. It's minimalist but they get maximum intensity out of every instrument. That's what I mean about a democratic sound- no one's fighting for your attention, it all blends together into the tightest machine-like unit imaginable. There were only 2 proper albums recorded by the band, "Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer". But it was already obvious how far this band would've gone if given the chance. The growth this band displayed from 1977-1980 is overwhelming. For that alone, they're one of the most influential bands ever. They went from thrash punk to post-punk to dance rock to goth to synth all in 3 years. Unfortunately, we'll never know what they might've become if given the chance. Ian Curtis killed himself the night before they were about to embark on their first US tour. He suffered from epilepsy, and the combination of prescription drugs, humiliation from having seizures on stage, a terminal illness and a disintegrating marraige proved too much for him to take. It truly breaks my heart that he's gone. New Order- based on the names, the opressed become the oppressors. The one good thing that came from the dissolution of Joy Division is that the members decided to continue on as New Order. They added Stephen Morris' girlfriend Gillian Gilbert and began anew. Their first single was a remake of the final 2 songs recorded by their former band- "Ceremony/In A Lonely Place". It was a moving tribute. With their first album "Movement" they had a hard time stepping out of the huge shadow of their former band- they sounded like a bored, boring version of Joy Division. But with their 1982 EP and especially their self-produced 2nd album "Power, Corruption and Lies" they got the fresh start they were looking for. They explored synth music and dance culture more freely than any "rock" band at the time. For any other band this would be considered selling out but somehow New Order pulled it off. I would go so far as to say that they're the greatest dance act in history. Their single for "Blue Monday" is the greatest selling 12" to date. Nothing describes the feeling of ecstasy better than "Age Of Consent" or "Your Silent Face". I hear their influence on techno and house music, Madchester, and even Madonna. They took a big hiatus for 8 years to explore side projects. Bernard formed Electronic with Johnny Marr from The Smiths and Peter started Monaco. They reformed in 2001 to release "Get Ready" and play Moby's Area1 festival. With Billy Corgan as their 2nd guitarist and a killer album, they haven't lost anything with time. They sound as exciting and vital as ever. Both bands shunned conformity and the mainstream religiously. They refused to lipsynch for television, wouldn't appear in their album artwork, hated videos, were brutally honest in interviews and often would only play 45 minute sets. They felt that the obligatory encore was insulting the intelligence of an audience. They wanted to leave the mystique and purity of their albums intact by not releasing singles from them. All of Joy Division's singles and most of New Order's early ones cannot be found on any albums. For those of you that are interested in these bands, I would recommend that you pick up their "Substance" singles collections. They're a great place to start and showcase how brilliant and unique they are. Timeless, classic stuff! Can you tell that I love these guys? | |
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The only mistake that Joy Division made was letting Ian Curtis be by himself. They should have been able to tell that he was a suicidal wreck! It's in the lyrics, guys. Gillian Gilbert just planned the whole thing so that she could get in the band. | |
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Joy Division was a huge influence on one of my favorite bands, Swans. Swans covered 'Love will tear us apart', and generally became masters of the whole morose/depressive thing. I keep meaning to go back and listen to Unknown Pleasures again; I still remember getting the pristine vinyl ca. 82, and instantly loving it, part. 'She's lost control'. | |
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New Order is unquestionably my biggest discovery of the past year. It started with "The Best of" which I bought a little over 2 years ago but didn't full get into until last year. "Vanishing Point" and "Dreams Never End" completely killed me! Then I heard the original "Blue Monday" (not the crappy 88 version) and fell in love. "Substance" soon followed, and each song took its turn blowing me away! I've slowly been getting into the albums, particularly "Power, Corruption and Lies" and "Technique" and have discovered that a lot of the album tracks are top-notch too. What a great band!
Joy Division used to completely disturb me, partly because the lead singer was also named Ian. The music was very turbulent and worrisome, but I've grown to appreciate it. Songs like "She's Lost Control," "Love Will Tear Us Apart," "Disorder" and "Transmission" simply rock. | |
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Ian, I love you!
It was wonderful getting into them at the same time. I can't remember the last time that happened with anybody- discovering an artist together. Since you got me into Eurythmics that doesn't really count and vice versa with Aaliyah. And playing Joy Division for you was indeed a critical moment. Thanks for being receptive. | |
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TRON said: Ian, I love you!
It was wonderful getting into them at the same time. I can't remember the last time that happened with anybody- discovering an artist together. Since you got me into Eurythmics that doesn't really count and vice versa with Aaliyah. And playing Joy Division for you was indeed a critical moment. Thanks for being receptive. Thanks for showing me what an idiot I was for not being receptive to it earlier! | |
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You weren't an idiot. It's intense, confrontational stuff. Not your average, everyday singalong feel-good music. I wouldn't expect most people to love it, nor would I casually play it for anyone. [This message was edited Sat Oct 26 16:54:11 PDT 2002 by TRON] | |
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TRON said: You weren't an idiot. It's intense, confrontational stuff. Not your average, everyday singalong feel-good music. I wouldn't expect most people to love it, nor would I casually play it for anyone.
[This message was edited Sat Oct 26 16:54:11 PDT 2002 by TRON] Neither is "Cri du Chat." | |
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That's why I didn't want to tell you what it was at first. Annie can be scary! | |
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TRON said: That's why I didn't want to tell you what it was at first. Annie can be scary!
Annie LIKE being evil. | |
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I don't think she can help it. In her case, it's not a matter of "liking" or choice. | |
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TRON said: I don't think she can help it. In her case, it's not a matter of "liking" or choice.
Annie pretty much LIKE everything, though. | |
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Both Joy Division and New Order are great bands...
New Order is not depressing like Joy Division... you could bum the positivity posse on this site out for months with one good listening of Joy Division! Damn, I wish that Ian Curtis wouldn't have killed himself... EDIT: bum instead of but... what the fuck was I thinking??? [This message was edited Sat Oct 26 18:28:08 PDT 2002 by IceNine] SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred | |
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IceNine said: Both Joy Division and New Order are great bands...
New Order is not depressing like Joy Division... you could but the positivity posse on this site out for months with one good listening of Joy Division! Damn, I wish that Ian Curtis wouldn't have killed himself... Yeah, he pretty much J'd himself. | |
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How appropriate- J'd = Joy Division | |
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TRON said: How appropriate- J'd = Joy Division
They were doomed from the start! Mary should've warned them! | |
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IceNine said:
Both Joy Division and New Order are great bands...
New Order is not depressing like Joy Division... you could but the positivity posse on this site out for months with one good listening of Joy Division! Damn, I wish that Ian Curtis wouldn't have killed himself... The funny thing is I don't get depressed when I'm listening to them. A lot of times I put them on when I'm mad or confused about something and it helps get those feelings out of my system. Their sound makes me ecstatic and very excited. I whip around the room and become very manic. It's quite the scene, my brother can tell you. Songs like "Ice Age", "Digital", and "Wilderness" make me wanna fuck something up or punch through walls. I love it! | |
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IceNine said: Both Joy Division and New Order are great bands...
We're like crystal, we break easyNew Order is not depressing like Joy Division... you could bum the positivity posse on this site out for months with one good listening of Joy Division! Damn, I wish that Ian Curtis wouldn't have killed himself... | |
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oh and isn't "Love Vigilante" a pop masterpiece? [This message was edited Sun Oct 27 1:08:34 PST 2002 by jnoel] | |
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? [This message was edited Sun Mar 2 9:58:26 PST 2003 by IstenSzek] and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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Could you be thinking of "Getting Away With It"? | |
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Or "Get the message"? | |
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What does everyone think of the new New Order album "Get Ready"? I think it might be their best yet. | |
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Excellent Bands. I'm partial to Joy Division. Their song LOVE WILL TEAR US APART is a Classic. Love BLUE MONDAY from New Order and their album Substance was very good. | |
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I say this on another New orders thread already but must need answer! Please help!
There is the song world in order they have which is meant for the football cup! It have a Jamaican English rapper/football man called John Barnes on OK! Anyone know if he have a solo album? He is funky rapper! My name is Tibor and I am funky! | |
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My boyfriend loves these groups. From what I've heard by them, they're great. | |
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Tibor, the song you're thinking of is called "World In Motion" from 1990. | |
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TRON said: Tibor, the song you're thinking of is called "World In Motion" from 1990.
Thanks Tron! Does John Barnes have solo albums or other raps? My name is Tibor and I am funky! | |
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Lemme check. I don't know anything about him. | |
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Here is a list of projects on which John Barnes has appeared and what he does on each:
Herb Alpert Keep Your Eye on Me (1987) Organ, Tuba, Arranger, Keyboards, Voices Herb Alpert & Tijuana... Classics, Vol. 20 (1987) Producer Gerald Alston Open Invitation (1990) Arranger, Programming Arpeggio Let the Music Play (1978) Arranger Arpeggio Love & Desire (1994) Rhythm Arrangements Arpeggio Best of Arpeggio: Love & Desire (1995) Arranger Atlantic Starr As the Band Turns (1986) Keyboards Atlantic Starr Ultimate Collection (2000) Keyboards Patti Austin Patti Austin (1984) Synthesizer, Keyboards Gato Barbieri Tropico (1978) Keyboards Gato Barbieri Fire and Passion (1988) Keyboards Regina Belle Passion (1993) Synthesizer, Percussion, Arranger, Keyboards, Synclavier Ruby Braff Hear Me Talkin' (1967) Sax (Baritone) Johnny Bristol Bristol's Creme (1976) Keyboards Elkie Brooks Live & Learn (1979) Keyboards Jim Capaldi Play It by Ear (1977) Keyboards Charisma Out of Time (1994) Keyboards The Chocolate Jam Co. Spread of the Future Keyboards Leonard Cohen Future (1992) Bass, Synthesizer Bass Leonard Cohen More Best of Leonard Cohen (1997) Bass Frankie Crocker Heart and Soul Orchestra (1977) Clarinet, Keyboards, Clavinet, Fender Rhodes Paulinho DaCosta Happy People (1979) Celine Dion Unison (1990) Synthesizer, Keyboards, Synclavier, Vocoder Celine Dion Celine Dion/Unison (1999) Keyboards, Synclavier, Vocoder Celine Dion Unison/Celine Dion/The Colour of... (2002) Keyboards, Synclavier, Vocoder Lamont Dozier Working on You (1981) Organ, Synthesizer, Piano, Keyboards, Moog Synthesizer, Prophet 5 Yvonne Elliman Love Me (1976) Percussion, Keyboards Yvonne Elliman Best of Yvonne Elliman (1997) Percussion, Keyboards The Emotions Emotions Live in '96 (1996) Producer Enchantment Utopia (1983) Synthesizer, Fairlight Digby Fairweather With Nat in Mind (1994) Alto, Clarinet, Baritone The 5th Dimension High on Sunshine (1978) Keyboards Finished Touch Need to Know You Better (1978) Keyboards Roberta Flack Oasis (1988) Synthesizer, Keyboards The Four Tops Anthology (1974) Synthesizer, Arranger, Programming, Rhythm Arrangements The Four Tops Essential Tops (2000) Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Programming The Four Tops Fourever (2001) Synthesizer, Keyboards, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Programming Steven Fromholz Frolicking in the Myth (1977) Synthesizer, Keyboards Marvin Gaye I Want You (1976) Piano, Fender Rhodes Marvin Gaye Master 1961-1984 (1995) Piano, Fender Rhodes Marvin Gaye Classics Collection (1995) Piano, Fender Rhodes Johnny Gill Johnny Gill [Atlantic/Cotillion] (1983) Fender Rhodes Benny Golson I'm Always Dancin' to the Music (1978) Keyboards The Great British Jazz... Best of the Great British Jazz... (1998) Reeds Billy Griffin Respect (1983) Synthesizer, Arranger, Keyboards, Producer, Horn Arrangements Marty Grosz Just for Fun! (1996) Clarinet, Saxophone, Sax (Baritone), Vocals Leon Haywood Intimate (1976) Piano Headcleaner Pigment of Imagination (1997) Guitar, Drums, Vocals Michael Henderson Slingshot Keyboards Howard Hewett I Commit to Love (1986) Keyboards High Inergy Shoulda Gone Dancin' (1979) Synthesizer, Keyboards Hodges, James & Smith What Have You Done for Love (1978) Jennifer Holliday Say You Love Me (1985) Synthesizer, Keyboards Whitney Houston Whitney Houston (1985) Clarinet Phyllis Hyman Can't We Fall in Love Again (1981) Keyboards Phyllis Hyman Legacy of Phyllis Hyman (1996) Synthesizer, Piano, Keyboards Julio Iglesias 1100 Bel Air Place (1984) Synthesizer, Arranger, Keyboards, Fender Rhodes The Jacksons Victory (1984) Synthesizer, Arranger Original Soundtrack Jacksons: An American Dream (1992) Vocals, Producer Jacksons Best Remixes (1998) Keyboards, Fairlight Janet Jackson Dream Street (1984) Keyboards, Programming, Moog Synthesizer, Rhythm, Associate Producer, Drum Programming, Rhythm Arrangements, Moog Bass Jermaine Jackson Jermaine Jackson (1984) Bass, Keyboards Jermaine Jackson You Said (1992) Arranger, Synclavier Michael Jackson Bad (1987) Synthesizer, Piano, Arranger, Programming, Vocal Arrangement, String Arrangements, Rhythm Arrangements Michael Jackson Dangerous (1992) Bass, Keyboards Michael Jackson HIStory: Past, Present and Future, (1995) Synthesizer, Piano, Keyboards Michael Jackson Blood on the Dance Floor/Dangerous (1997) Synthesizer, Keyboards Michael Jackson Bad [Bonus Tracks] (2001) Synthesizer, Piano, Vocal Arrangement, String Arrangements, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Arrangements Michael Jackson Greatest Hits: HIStory, Vol. 1 (2001) Synthesizer, Keyboards, Vocal Arrangement Rebbie Jackson Yours Faithfully (1998) Synthesizer, Drum Programming Janice-Marie Hiatus of the Heart (2000) Keyboards, Engineer, Vocal Arrangement, Remixing, Rhythm Arrangements Johnson & Branson Johnson & Branson (1989) Keyboards Quincy Jones Q: The Musical Biography of Quincy (2001) Synthesizer Arrangements Keb' Mo' Slow Down (1998) Keyboards Keb' Mo' Slow Down/The Door (1998) Keyboards King Friday Get It (1995) Mandolin, Percussion, Vocals Gladys Knight & the Pips Touch (1981) Keyboards Dave Koz Lucky Man (1993) Piano Kenny Loggins Vox Humana (1985) Synthesizer Kenny Loggins Leap of Faith (1991) Synthesizer, Piano, Strings, Synclavier Kenny Loggins Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow: The... (1997) Arranger, Keyboards, Producer Kenny Loggins Unimaginable Life (1997) Synclavier Kenny Loggins Now That I Know Love (1997) Arranger Willie Mabon Comeback (1973) Saxophone Pete Magadini and Don... Bones Blues (1977) Synthesizer Manhattan Transfer Coming Out (1976) Piano Manhattan Transfer Pastiche (1976) Piano Manhattan Transfer Vocalese (1985) Arranger Manhattan Transfer Anthology: Down in Birdland (1992) Synthesizer, Piano, Arranger, Synclavier, Fairlight, Tx-816, Vocorder, Linn 9000 Herbie Mann Memphis Two-Step (1970) Keyboards Kazu Matsui Project Is That the Way to Your Heart Keyboards Bill Medley Right Here and Now (1982) Keyboards Bette Midler Broken Blossom (1977) Piano The Miracles Essential Collection (2002) Strings, Horn Eddie Murphy So Happy (1989) Keyboards, Engineer, Mixing New Order World in Motion [UK] (1989) Alexander O'Neal Love Makes No Sense (1993) Piano Jeffrey Osborne Jeffrey Osborne (1982) Fender Rhodes, Wurlitzer Jennifer Paige Jennifer Paige (1998) Keyboards Jennifer Paige Jennifer Paige [Japan] (1998) Keyboards Peaches & Herb 2 Hot! (1978) Synthesizer, Keyboards Peaches & Herb Best of Peaches & Herb (1996) Synthesizer Arrangements Ce Ce Peniston Finally (1993) Synthesizer Pizzicato Five Five by Five (1994) Remixing Cousin Joe Pleasant Bluesman from New Orleans (1974) Clarinet The Pointer Sisters Special Things (1980) Keyboards The Pointer Sisters Black & White (1981) Keyboards The Pointer Sisters So Excited (1982) Keyboards The Pointer Sisters Break Out (1983) Piano Lionel Richie Dancing on the Ceiling (1986) Synthesizer, Piano, Arranger, Synclavier, Synthesizer Programming Lionel Richie Louder Than Words (1996) Synthesizer Minnie Riperton Stay in Love (1977) Keyboards Smokey Robinson Love Breeze (1978) Keyboards Smokey Robinson & the... 35th Anniversary Collection (1994) Synthesizer, Keyboards Spike Robinson Tenor Madness (1997) Sax (Baritone), Sax (Tenor) Romance Dance My Way to Your Heart (1994) Keyboards Diana Ross Force Behind the Power (1991) Synthesizer, Keyboards, Programming, Synclavier, Synthesizer Arrangements, Synclavier Programming, Synthesizer Demis Roussos Demis Roussos [Mercury] Synthesizer Leo Sayer Endless Flight (1976) Piano Leo Sayer Here (1979) Keyboards Leo Sayer Endless Flight [Expanded] (2002) Keyboards Shalamar Big Fun (1979) Keyboards Sherrick Sherrick (1987) Synthesizer, Percussion, Piano, Keyboards, Synclavier Dusty Springfield It Begins Again (1978) Synthesizer, Keyboards, Piano (Electric), Clavinet Dusty Springfield It Begins Again [UK Bonus Track] (2002) Synthesizer, Piano (Electric), Clavinet Edwin Starr Stronger Than You Think I Am (1980) Keyboards Bill Summers Straight to the Bank (1978) Reeds, Keyboards Syreeta One to One (1977) Keyboards Tavares Sky High! (1976) Synthesizer, Piano Tavares Love Storm (1977) Keyboards Tavares It Only Takes a Minute: A Lifetime (1997) Synthesizer, Keyboards The Temptations Milestone (1991) Keyboards The Temptations Emperors of Soul (1994) Keyboards Ralph Tresvant Ralph Tresvant (1990) Producer, Synclavier Triple S Connection Triple 'S' Connection Keyboards Ultrapull From All Directions (2002) Keyboards Vesta Vesta 4 U (1988) Synthesizer Kristen Vigard Kristen Vigard (1988) Piano Leon Ware Musical Massage (1976) Keyboards Wah Wah Watson Elementary (1977) Keyboards Alex Welsh Legacy Band Sound of Alex, Vol. 1 (2002) Sax (Alto), Bars Original Soundtrack Hero Ain't Nothin' But a Sandwich (1978) Keyboards Original Soundtrack Twins: Music from the Original... (1989) Producer Original Soundtrack Working Girl (1989) Piano Various Artists British Jazz [Discovery] (1954) Sax (Baritone), Sax (Tenor) Various Artists American Blues Legends (1974) Keyboards Various Artists Space Dance (1978) Keyboards Various Artists USA for Africa: We Are the World (1985) Synthesizer, Rhythm Arrangements, Synthesizer Arrangements, Musician, Synthesizer Programming Various Artists Rock, Rhythm & Blues (1989) Piano Various Artists American Dream Mini Series (1992) Various Artists Put on Your Green Shoes (1993) Vocal Arrangement Various Artists Hitsville USA, Vol. 2: The Motown... (1993) Producer Various Artists Salute to Eddie Condon (1993) Sax (Baritone), Vocals Various Artists Power of Peace: In Support of CARE (1996) Producer Various Artists Ballads for Trombone (1998) Sax (Alto), Sax (Baritone) Various Artists Great Choirs of America (2000) Vocals Various Artists Street Grooves (2002) Keyboards Herb Alpert Keep Your Eye on Me Carl Anderson Pieces of a Heart / Why We Are Here Toni Braxton Toni Braxton Dee Dee Bridgewater Just Family Paulinho DaCosta Happy People The Emotions Emotions Live in '96 Enchantment Utopia Brian Austin Green One Stop Carnival Original Soundtrack Jacksons: An American Dream Kenny Loggins Unimaginable Life Kazu Matsui Project Is That the Way to Your Heart The Pharcyde Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde / Cydeways: The Best of the Pharcyde Lionel Richie Dancing on the Ceiling Rose Royce Perfect Lover Ralph Tresvant Ralph Tresvant Jody Watley 20th Century Masters - The Millennium C / Greatest Hits / Intimacy Michael White So Far Away | |
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