lastdecember said:

I realise that completely...


Again, I ask, how did Christina get away with it for Stripped? And Nicole is more established than Amerie was at that stage.



Rihanna at least got to choose Umbrella and has input with music videos. I don't know how free she is but there certainly don't seem to be any problems with her. She's also mixed race and they've had no problems marketing her like they apparently have with Nicole's race.



Well I kinda agree with that. You can't really go from PCD to Coldplay. And if that doesn't work why doesn't she keep trying?




She should leave or start a blog and speak up - all this silence on her part is bugging me. She's never gonna get anywhere if she lets people do it all for her. And she DOES have potential to be big.

purplesweat said:

The question is what is big? I would rather her doing "coldplay" type songs and having that fan base, than having the POP fan base which changes every other day. As far as speaking up she has her own site and does discuss these issues, but what is that going to do, this solo album is under Universal, so its their game, we arent talking about George Michael here questioning a label, despite PCD being a big group, George Michael had 50 million in album sales before he decided to not do videos, and all that stuff.


As far as Rihanna, she has no input, she didnt choose Umbrella, it was given to her, because others turned it down, theres no thinking in that, she is given the songs to sing. As for Christina, she still has limited input, she has songwriters with her, Linda Perry for one who does the majority of her work, so Stripped as good as it was, was alot of great pairings, Christina wasnt in their fighting for that change, it had to be done at that time, she had to destroy that cute little pop girl image and so did the label because that "phase" was over, even Britney realized that long before she did.

The thing is that Nicole is now almost 30, that is OLD in this world to POP, plus its her first solo record, IMO i say let her do something TOTALLY not like whats out there, forget all these HIP producers, its all bullshit. In this genre the label is not going to let someone with no track record, dictate to them what THEY want to do, sure she can bitch, and then get dropped, Labels are here now to make $$ they dont want someone dictating to them their direction, maybe 2-3 more PCD albums than that could happen, but not now.

lastdecember said:

Rihanna wasn't given Umbrella as leftovers, L.A Reid had to fight tooth and nail for it.

Nicole passes as a lot younger so I don't see why that matters.

The music industry sounds like a shit place for women/popstars to be.

purplesweat said:

Age is a big matter in this industry at this point, everything is tied to age. If you are a male artist and rock you better be young or else you wont get played, if you are female you better be young and have a certain sound or you wont get played. As for Rihanna, she still had nothing to do with the record, LA fought for it, because no one wanted her to sing it, because she cant sing for the most part, but LA just wanted the song.

For the type of music they want Nicole doing as a solo artist, she doesnt fit the mold at all, america is very black and white and thats it for the most part, everything else is viewed as being "different". As for PCD the reason they have been able to do some different stuff on their albums, songs like "Sway" "Right Now" "feeling Good" and "Flirt" is that the group is based on someone else's idea, Robin Antin, still wants this group to have that "vegas" style at times, which is good, because already you see other Girl Groups following their lead, the New Danity Kane CD has very little leaning towards mainstream RB, its more POP/dance, which honestly, girls werent doing till PCD came along, then all of a sudden you had Christina doing "Back to Basics", so the influence of PCD is being felt.

lastdecember said:

What is J-lo? Milian? Chistina Ag?

Graycap23 said:

All of them buried their "ethnic" routes, none of them embrace their roots, which is why JLO is hated for the most part in the latin community, she is viewed as a sellout, Christina Milian? is far "star status" i mean i love her, but im probably alone in that one, and Christina Aguilera is far from putting her latin roots forward in her music, they are basically all making the same kind of music and their looks with JLO and Aguilera are very safe, almost "white".

Um....Christina made a latin album and won latin grammys!

She did a duet with Ricky Martin.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Nicole's career.I have a feeling that the Pussycat Dolls won't last much longer.They'll have a few more hit singles,then call it a day.Nicole's gonna have to make some serious decisions if she wants to survive in the music biz.She's gonna have to take control and find her own way.

lastdecember said:

Unfortunately what you're saying is sad, but true. I have friends who are songwriters, session players, and producers in the US, and the general public has little idea of how "regimented" and "formulaic" everything is on the administration side of pop music. It's very dictatorial, there is no room for experimentaton, and singers are essentially paid marionettes until they can produce a 3rd hitmaking album. You can get away with having some say so on the 2nd, but that's usually only folks that had a blockbuster first album, and were part of another chart proven, moneymakng project beforehand such another group. Still, it's a pity your friend is so dependent on the US market for her paradigm of what defines success. For me personally, her solo efforts have bored me to tears, to the point of me changing stations whenever she comes on the radio. This is also another pity because she obviously has a decent voice with nice range, and a great penchant for melody. Actually, I'm one of the few here who would blame her crappy material rathar than a lack of talent. I remember riding in a taxi home from the airport hearing Baby Love and it just grinding my ears and begging the driver to turn it off. All I could wonder was why they even wasted 3 1/2 minutes recording such a piece of bland garbage.The song made me itch, her vocals were wasted to the point of me not even knowing or caring who she was. It was like listening to a new low in pop medocrity. However, I do know from this side of the pond that she and PCD are still viable as a brand. Before the hiatus those girls did product endorsements here in Europe, their faces are still all over point of purchase billboards in mass chain stores all over the country. Nicole has tv endorsements for national celphone carrier here so she's literally on tv everday, several times a day with her damn singles blasting as the accompanying music. What I don't understand is why (during this slight lull at home) she wouldn't be here in Europe capitalizing on the sales of her singles and her brand recognition as she obviously has an active fan base here and is a media fixture? Why is she not being advised to ride the crest of this wave and milk the financial and musical opportunities for EVERYTHING she can get here? Timing is evrything and given that career longevity involves striking while the fire is hot it just seems like a really silly move to have not been here when her singles got massive airplay, or take advantage of the coporate tie-ins for the shoes and phones and whatever else she's been hawking.

Another thing that works in your friend's favor here in the EU is her ethnicity.Here in Europe that's one of the most POWERFUL tools for a person's mass appeal. This is because the ethnic make-upover here is completely different from the US, and things aren't dictated by the American marketing standard of simple black vs. white. For example, here in Germany alone she's supported heavily by the Turkish, African-German, Brazilian, and Cuban-German population because she.looks,like.THEM. People want to see images similar to themselves in mass pop culture. So probably unbeknownst to her, her liscenced images grace the cover of every magazine here as the current modus operandi face for young ethnic females aged 16-30. Why is she not being advised to connect with this built in fan base? I've see other American artists do that alllll the time. You might think that they're having a slow time at home. But no, they've slinked over here and they make rounds with tv, print media, they do junkets, work their coporate tie-ins and let me tell you, people are LOYAL to them like you wouldn't believe. When there's an ebb in your career at home, it's the loyal international fan base that will keep you recording, keep you performing, keep you on international magazine covers, and keep you in that phat ass house of yours. I just don't get why she wouldn't be exploring this avenue. It feels like a missed opportunity and not very saavy in terms of long term, long range plans

TonyVanDam said:

Christina is a white girl. She's not passing for anything. Have you seen her dad? He's a white South American, I don't see how thats so hard for people to understand.
[Edited 2/24/08 3:43am]

Ottensen said:

In the long run thats what it comes down to, who is doing the advising. The reason PCD was taken worldwide was that its founder Robin Antin pushed for it, it was not a record company's thinking, it was her's, the problem with the solo work is that the advise isnt coming from Antin, she has nothing to do with the solo work, that for the most part is being headed by Jimmy Iovine at Universal. And yes timing is everything and i feel that if he really wanted a success in a solo effort he would have had that solo record done and out last year as the PCD album released its last single. But he didnt, because they were more concerned with getting Nicole on everyones records, during that time she was on Avant,Diddy,50 cent,Shaggy,Will Smith,Timbaland and a few other records, this was a bad move because it was turning Nicole, someone with good vocals, into another Ashanti, basically someone who sings "hooks", and with that you cheapen the singer and artist.

So i think once that time was missed, and it should never have been attempted, i feel instead of focusing on the solo project half heartedly, which they were, they should have put 100% into the new PCD record, which should have been out now, as opposed to just being started now, for a summer/fall release.

The reason PCD worked well was because there wasnt anything like it out there, and thats why it worked more in other markets even more than the USA, and thats why i feel their next record will have that same success in the European market, because if you look at the work they did from 2004-2007 most of it was spent building a base in Europe, which is the stronger market.

purplesweat said:

Christina made a latin album in the middle of the "latin" explosion, Ricky was huge, and Shakira was going through the roof in english so there was this sudden "its in" type of thing going on with the mainstream.

lastdecember said:

Christina was doing the Spanish thing before Shakira made it big in english but I do agree she did it because of the South American explosion

lastdecember said:

Precisely. I knew the people intimately involved with the production of this project at the time, and this outing was purely about cashing in on a current trend, over-capping the bottom line. Aguilera wasn't really raised in a latin cultural environment to begin with which she has openly admitted, so at the time was not intimately familiar with the Spanish language, and in fact learned her songs phonetically under the instruction of a well-compensated Spanish language pronunciation coach.

lastdecember said:

And that beng said, if PCD manages to pop out another worlwide smash cd....she'll take note, pay VERY close attention to her leverage power as brand being marketed internationally, and if the US can't accept her being a 30 year old making solo pop music she CAN channel that into consistent international work and recognition as an alternative. She might not be able to be on the A-list of of New York/LA based pop, a few years from now, but if she pays attention and plays her cards right she can still reside at home, while making an incredible living through other markets who will remain with her as the brand they recognize and accept.