silverchild said:

If he's as bad as Common, I will rethink my intention to give a Kanye album a chance.

gyro34 said:

Common is NOT a bad lyricist.

Alamine said:

I wouldn't go that far. I would rank Dr. Dre and Teddy Riley (yes...he did quite a bit of early hip-hop) before Kanye.

Fauxie said:

Sure isn't! In fact, he's one of the smartest, more real rappers out there today. And how long has he been in the game? Like 15 years and still going strong.

Fauxie said:

Well, then maybe the track I listened to about him comparing sexual infidelity to Jesus being crucified a rarity. Is it?

silverchild said:

Never a wasted word and he articulates them all in a way that really makes you follow his lyrics.

purplesweat said:

exactly! The fact kanye beat 50 tells you that gangsta rap is getting tired, or as nas would say, 'hip hop is dead'

Hopefully Kanye will study his craft and strive to be like Quincy.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related
[Edited 2/12/08 11:04am]

Im sure most of you are just fans..I have met him several times and worked in the same studio as him for almost 2 years !
HE IS AN ASSHOLE ! In real life..and the EGO thing is not a joke...thats how he is...even with other rappers !

The critics love him, that's all I know. He does hate Bush, a plus.

I don't like him personally or his music. I think he is overrated, and obnoxious.

Here are some counterpoints to what I have read as positives.(these are just my opinion)

1) Kanye as a PRODUCER is no Rick Rubin, Rick gets the best out of everyone and makes them better just by listening and in all Genres. Try Slayer to Dixie Chicks.

2) Hip Hop as a medium is tired and old and lost its credibility and pulse.

3) At it's best Hip Hop and Rap was a expression of, at times, artistic viewpoints and social commentary, not music. Majority of songs are sample based. Clever at times, but it's someone else's creation.

4) If you are not singing or playing live instruments you are not worthy in my book of being called a musician.

5) I love old R&B, funk, Motown, etc but Hip Hop has done nothing for me since Old Ice Cube, Tribe Called Quest, Tupac. I felt that even Tupac who could def polarize a nation with his views had more talent than Kanye could ever dream of.

6) Last Dec is right on. I felt the same way about Puffy as I do Kanye. Wow that is a sometimes interesting sample, but is changing the music world or bushing boundaries in a new way.... NO FNG WAY>

7) SO for me it's not just Kanye, it's all the RINGTONE WONDERS OF THE WORLD who have a 30 sec hook but no substance. You think these songs like Stronger will be played in 20 yrs or even remembered in 5 no way.
[Edited 2/12/08 11:43am]

purplesweat said:

In a hip-hop world of Flo Rida's and Soulja Boy's to me Kanye is a breath of fresh air. He's definitely one of the better hip-hop artists out there. I think his whole overtly arrogant persona is partly an act and that's fine. I don't find it obnoxious or offensive. A lot of hip-hop artists convey a bit of arrogance with their personas I think at least his is justified!

Tuls101 said:

This is not all rappers but most....

Why do we have re-write all the rules for hip hoppers?

They get arrested and it's all image.
They make videos and they are all image
They dress a certain way all image
Regurgitate classic soul,funk, and disco vamps to rap about nothing over

I was listening to Howard Stern today talk about Kanye and he nailed it. As a somewhat naive music guy he is very one sided on some things but his response to Kanye's grammy thing was exactly what I was thinking> He said something like "who the F is this guy to call this his house and show ( Ref the Grammy's) when Stevie Wonder is sitting in the audience with 29 grammies to his name, who plays 15 instruments, writes actual songs, not just lyrics, F7ck you!"

This what makes me so mad, how does this young punk think he is so fng worthy when Stevie at his age dominated everything with brilliant songs and amazing instrument skills.. His lyrical content is not even close to half of the best 70's artists.

We all may have opinions, but I am so sick of having to accept hip hop being discussed as music. It just isn't in my book.

In its purest form it could be considered poetry, but never music
[Edited 2/12/08 17:32pm]

Fauxie said:

Um...Common's name was on some magazine's list of the worst lyricists. He was ranked high, too. Not saying I agree, I'm just saying.

Hip-hop is music.

Adisa said:

I think that's a steaming pile of doo-doo.

Knowin you the best part of life do I have the right to take yours
Cause I created you irresponsibly
Subconciously knowin the act I was a part of
The start of somethin, I'm not ready to bring into the world
Had myself believin I was sterile
I look into mother's stomach, wonder if you are a boy or a girl
Turnin this woman's womb into a tomb
But she and I agree, a seed we don't need
You would've been much more than a mouth to feed
But someone, I woulda fed this information I read
to someone, my life for you I woulda had to leave
Instead I lead you to death
I'm sorry for takin your first breath, first step, and first cry
But I wasn't prepared mentally nor financially
Havin a child shouldn't have to bring out the man in me
Plus I wanted you to be raised within a family
I don't wanna, go through the drama of havin a baby's momma
Weekend visits and buyin J's ain't gon' make me a father
For a while bearing a child is somethin I never wanted to do
For me to live forever I can only do that through you
Nerve I got to talk about them niggaz with a gun
Must have really thought I was God to take the life of my son
I could have sacrificed goin out
To think my homies who did it I used to joke about, from now on
I'ma use self control instead of birth control
Cause $315 ain't worth your soul
$315 ain't worth your soul
$315 ain't worth it

He’s the new Mickey Rooney!



"I was the number one star in the world, you hear me? The world!!!"

Who knew?!

Adisa said:

Everyone can disagree, but I'd have to wonder whether any publication that ranks Common as one of the worst lyricists in hip-hop can be trusted to write credibly on the genre. Com is one of the best of his era and is widely regarded as such. Anyone who owns Resurrection or Like Water For Chocolate can attest to that.

namepeace said:

It wasn't limited to hip-hop. It covered all genres. I think Sting was No. 1.

Adisa said:

As much as I love Sting, it's hard to argue with that.

And hey, in a music world where T-Pain wins a Grammy, Common being considered a terrible MC is highly possible.

namepeace said:

Found it, but he didn't rank high, so I stand corrected.


http://www.blender.com/gu...px?ID=2882

Adisa said:

I'm making a new thread.

aalloca said:

That's the equivalent of saying "I was listening to Cher talk about quantum physics the other day...
Howard Stern doesn't even listen to hip-hop so his opinion on it or any of its participants is going to be purely speculative. If you think Howard "nailed it" that says more about what YOU know than what actually is.

aalloca said:

If you haven't heard good hip-hop and think its all samples then you are listening to the wrong artists.
Also whether or not you consider it music is irrelevant because hip-hop has done more for the unification of cultures than ANY OTHER FORM OF MUSIC, INCLUDING ROCK AND ROLL. It is the one genre that transcends cultural boundaries because hip-hop is all inclusive. You can go anywhere and hear hip-hop in different languages with different mixes and blending of styles. If hip-hop is not music, why do so many "real artists" try to incorporate its sound into their own? Uh,....BECAUSE ITS MUSIC, that's why.
I myself have struggled long and hard with accepting the validity of hip-hop but it speaks to the world and that's undeniable. It may not be in your book but your book is fiction.

As to Kanye, he's already spoken about his insecurities, thus explaining his ego. People diss his lyrics but he's not nearly as bad as he's been accused of being. He's actually one of the realest rappers in the game because he talks about ACTUAL TRUTHS more than sensationalized bullshit 50 is a terrible lyricist. The public hopped on that "bad lyricist" thing because some busters decided that they had to give 50 some credit for something in all of that 50 vs. Kanye thing but I think Kanye is a better lyricist than 50. Kanye's verses are more straight to the point and that's why people don't think he's as good of a lyricist. He doesn't really "battle rap" and he's not very poetic but much more so than most, he does "keep it real" for lack of a better description.
On top of that, he does produce his own tracks. I'm not that big of a fan of his productions but they appeal to a lot of people. That says something. He's got a long resume and you don't get that by not being prolific, so when all is said and done, hard work is the key.
As to anything he says that's ego-driven, I dismiss it. That boy knows he's not the most or best at anything other than being Kanye West. To me, that would be like Prince saying he's the best guitarist in the world. I'd say "Whateva, fool". Kanye is no genius but he does work hard and is passionate within the limitations of his musical abilities.

BlaqueKnight said:

Hi BlaqueKnight,

The Stern comment was meant to be read as if Howard ( as a limited general music fan)can tell Kanye shouldn't be considered in the elite of musicians in that audience alone, than the general public are probably thinking the same thing. And how could he (Kanye) even have the balls to say what he does with talented musicians like Stevie, Herbie, and Prince in the audience.

We can agree to disagree on hip hop's status as music. I have read your posts many times and I think you are highly knowledgeable.

I don't know what musicians are trying to borrow from hip hop? And when they do, I often cringe like Prince with the game boys.... etc If it's a beat or groove in hip hop 90% are borrowed and when done well from obscure tracks like Double DUtch Bus used by Missy, it's cool to groove to....

But I can't see Rock bands saying I want to sound like fill in the blank hip hop guy, and if they did they would only being naively thinking that Kanye or whoever created it the sound they want to emulate( ie not recognizing the sample or interpolation as sometimes called?

If you are talking about hip hop bands like the Roots who play instruments I have no issues with them being included as music. I have a problem with someone writing words over a Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards groove and claiming to be the 2nd coming. Nile appreciates when people sample him, and I not saying it doesn't groove for the hip hop poet, but I am grooving to a Chic production not a fill in the blank rappers words. The best words by any rapper can be viewed as poetry not music.

In my opinion hip hop is embraced not because its music but because its a bad fashion trend. It's flashy and kids from surburbia think they are pushing the envelope by listening to it.

Again we are entitled to opinion's, this topic just has been rubbing me the wrong way for a long time on these boards.
[Edited 2/13/08 12:00pm]
[Edited 2/13/08 12:02pm]
[Edited 2/13/08 12:03pm]
[Edited 2/13/08 12:04pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

There was a time when I might agree with you. But not now. Much of the hip-hop permeating the mass culture has actually done more to promote regressive black stereotypes than rock ever did. It is a revolutionary form of music, but its increasingly negative characteristics have diminished its potential to truly unify.



Now here, I agree. But what good does it do to translate the minstrelsy that some in the rap game display across cultural and national lines?




As incredible as this may sound, Kanye's lyrics -- though increasingly repetitive -- are easy enough to relate to because he does talk about problems that we all have to some degree. Without, of course, you know, the millions of dollars and fame.



Fitty is a studio creation. He's terrible. 'Yeezy actually is cleverer on the mic than he gets credit for. But he tends to make the same album.



Anybody who's been in the rap game can appreciate what Kanye has done.

I can't stand "Kanye West" as we know him, but I've bought each of his albums because there's something about each one that I like, be it the beats behind one track or the lyrics of another.

But back to your original point.

Hip-hop is music. But it has become the predominant pop music form. And that ain't a good thing.

^
My Problem with hip hop is I am disgusted by the thought of criminals & the people that just want to look/act like them...!
Im not saying Kanye is exactly cut from that cloth..But , I am saying...
If you cant play an instrument..
If you can sing in tune...
If you have music skills that are on par with a glorified record collector/DJ..
then Get the F^@$ out of my face !!! You are a part of why music is shit these days ! and part of the reason that REAL MUSIC made by REAL MUSICIANS..using REAL organic tools..Is a DYING ART !