^ Great post. I wish I read all of it.

j/k, I did. Funk is definetely an underground culture, and I am happy that it is. That way, we can assure it's purity.

.
[Edited 1/31/08 14:55pm]

Miles said:

Nice post. Good points.

Those 2 Herbie Hancock/Headhunters albums don't fall into that category imo.
They're primers on how to construct long-form bangin' grooves without becoming repetitive and boring.

And i'm well aware of your ire over 70s fusion in general.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

krayzie said:

I'm talking in terms of taking the music to the next level. Of course theres bands like Galactic making great music but this was in terms of taking elements of the genre and pushing it further. Sure Parade and Lovesexy have elements of pop, rock and dance music but for funk to evolve surely theres more to it than a groove. Great funk means great songs.

theAudience said:

This is my gripe with some funk artists. You need ideas it not enough to have a groove and have it repeated ad nauseum for 10 minutes and call it prime funk, Its boring. I listen to a lot of new funk bands and none of them really do anything for me. Sure they can all play but where is the spark..the funk..the songs. They're aren't any.

Bro' you really need to get a grip.

Try the Bamboos outta OZ or Quantic Soul Orchestra from the UK, Alice Russell from same.

The world is passin' you by, man.

theAudience said:

Each to their own. It would be boring if we all dug the same things .

To slip off-topic a little, into the crazy, long-haired worlds of '70s jazz-funk and jazz-rock, and just because I feel like it, I shall outline my current position on '70's jazz fusion, for the one or two who might be interested -

I definitely dig Miles' often fascinating '70s efforts (Pete Cosey is God, especially when backed up by Michael Henderson and Al Foster ), and some of Santana's jazz fusion-type things from that time (oh yes, when possessed of the Diva-dip Oneness ...); and obviously Zappa was in a class of his own and imo created the most consitantly good/ interesting jazz/rock fusion I know of, among much else.

Most of the others took themselves a little too seriously for my liking; bands like Return to Forever and their 'Romantic Warrior' album, for instance, while fine musicians, were sliding dangerously close to the more worrying/ hilarious excesses of the dreaded 'prog' , which imo was the ultimate and logical destination of many '70s jazz fusion bands. Not that prog is all bad, but Zappa observed this era of music very perceptively and employed both his cruel musical wit and genius to exceed it musically and lampoon it simultaneously. Personally, I found Chick Corea's mad, distorted keyboard work with Miles on the 'It's About That Time' live album more interesting than most of what else I've heard of him 'post Miles'. As an aside, even Keith Jarrett 'went electric' for Miles; tho he may not like the stuff now, he looks like he's digging deep and gettin' funky in the footage ...

I've investigated various fusion/ jazz funk artists over the years - Forever, Weather Report (a few nice tunes, but I'm no great Jaco fan), Mahavishnu (whose original line-up had their moments, I admit), bits of Larry Coryell, Mystic Merlin , and others.

I bow to your deeper knowledge, tA, of Herbie's jazz-funk output, and imo the first 'Headhunters' album ain't bad, tho I prefer his Mawandishi (or however it's spelled) stuff, even though most of Mawandishi is kind of 'Bitches Brew'/ 'On the Corner' rip-offs, with a little Sun Ra added Eddie Henderson makes a great Miles clone on those records.). Billy Cobham's 'Spectrum' with Tommy Bolin is also good overall.

To sound maybe a little eccentric, I think The Doors were a fine proto-jazz-rock group - Take 'Riders on the Storm' for starters - not from an improv stand-point obviously, but they integrated jazz, among other flavours into their songs and sound, and organist Ray Manzarek played some cool solos. I suppose the Doors' jazz influence would have come from the 'cool' LA scene of the '50s and, more immediately, John Coltrane, who most of the band worshipped and saw live more than once IIRC. Remember, '60s jazz organ master Larry Young played live with 'Trane and then in the studio with Hendrix. 'Trane even played a week's engagement IIRC with Wes Montgomery somewhere which tragically appears to have gone unrecorded, but I digress ...

My problem with fusion was that many of the soloists don't 'speak' to me, of experience, soul, sadness, joy etc, like Louis, Bird, Miles or, say, Dexter Gordon do. Unless it's Hendrix or Zappa, I'm with Charlie Parker when he said 'Anymore than two choruses onstage and you're just practising' . There were too many wannabe Hendrix's and Coltrane's around in the '70s imo, on all instruments, with little to add to the original masters other than repetition. It's funny how nobody really started taking big influence from Miles' '70s work until the '90s (Mawandishi and Santana's 'Lotus' album aside).

Anyway, I've burbled on long enough here. Not trying to convert anybody, just throwing some thoughts into the air ... .

And landing back on topic re. the future of Funk. Imo James Brown is to Funk what Louis Armstrong is to jazz - the central figure, regardless of the technicalities of who invented what etc. More or less, then, if we accept James as the spiritual leader of Funk , if you can't hear something of the Godfather in any new Funk, then the magic ingredient may be missing ...

Know the Bible of JB and thy Funk will grow up strong and lo, will produce many healthy children ...
[Edited 2/1/08 13:18pm]
[Edited 2/1/08 13:19pm]
[Edited 2/1/08 14:27pm]

WildheartXXX said:

"Parade" was funky?!? "Kiss" was the closest thing to funky (it was more like pop sensibilities with funk undertones) on that album, IMO. "Lovesexy" certainly wasn't what I would call funky by any measure.

I'll have to look through my archived research books, but off-hand the last truly funk-oriented song that was a hit (at least a top 10 hit on the Billboard R&B Singles chart) that I can think of was Jesse Johnson's "Lovestruck." But it's fair to say the funk button pretty much has been jammed since the mid-1980s.
[Edited 2/2/08 15:34pm]

savoirfaire said:

This me tryin to do funk with a new modern sound. I think the closest person who has been capturing funk with a new twist is Pharell and Timbaland..although they should branch out and start making a band out of it...with some really good singers attatched. That has always been my dream.

Funk is doing fine, but most Prince fans ain't gonna find it if they're looking for hit singles and music videos.