namepeace said:

I guess your definition of "ballad" is a little different than mine -- it's fair to say "Sexual Healing" was a slow tempo, sexually romantic song but I'm not going to quibble over umbrella terms the ways others have been.

All of Luther Vandross' songs I named were recording in the '80s. Freddie Jackson's "You Are My Lady" was in 1985. Teddy Pendergrass' "Close the Door" was released in the summer of 1978 and "Turn Off the Lights" in the summer of 1979. Heatwave's "Always and Forever" was released 30 years ago at this time. The Isley Brothers' "Voyage to Atlantis" and "Footsteps in the Dark" were on the "Go for Your Guns" album in 1977 (with "Voyage" being released as a single the week ending Nov. 5, 1977).

I simply named ballads off the top of my head, but since you want to quibble over calendar dates the majority of the songs I named were within that 30-year period (songs like "Reasons," "For the Love of You" and "Love Ballad" barely missing the mark). Not to mention several of these ballads I have heard at weddings (more on that below).

It's fair to say those smattering of ballads over the past 30 years are considered more significant than "Adore." The fact you said SONGS means I can name, if anything, much more songs much more significant than "Adore" -- which if anything, makes it an even weaker argument for you. If you want to open the door, I can PLENTY more significant songs than "Adore."

For that matter, it's fair to say "Adore" IN MY OPINION is not one of the most significant songs in Prince's catalog. It's not one of the songs the average person or music fan readily associates with Prince ("Kiss," "1999," "When Doves Cry," "I Wanna Be Your Lover," "Little Red Corvette," etc.). In the few compilation discographies out there on Prince, the only one I've seen "Adore" appear on is 1992's "The Hits/B-Sides" (a comprehensive farewell set from his leave from Warner Brothers) -- you think such a seminal and significant record would be a must-have on compilations like "Ultimate Prince" and "The Very Best of Prince," wouldn't you? It's not like you rarely see Vandross' "Superstar" on his many compilations, do you?

namepeace said:

No, but I've attended some 40-odd weddings of family members, friends and co-workers over the past 20 years (including my own) -- and for "Adore" to be considered "a wedding song staple" I find it interesting I've never heard it at any of those weddings.

I didn't say it was inconceivable for "Adore" to be played at a wedding (a totally different statement), and I'm sure it has been played. Then again, I've heard George Clinton's "Atomic Dog" at weddings (obviously, a song to dance to during the reception) -- but that certainly doesn't mean it's a "wedding song staple." FWIW, I've heard "Love Ballad," "Here and Now," "Always and Forever," "For the Love of You" and "You Are My Lady" at more than several weddings (sometimes as the couples' first dance or even as the bride is going down the aisle; if not, at the wedding reception), but then agan I'm not making the argument they are "wedding song staples (though there's much more ammunition there than for 'Adore,' IMO)."

I said IN MY OPINION I find "Adore" somewhat of an odd song to play at a wedding because of some rather odd lyrics and somewhat sexual nature of the song about a one-night stand that had the singer sprung. IN MY OPINION, songs like "Love Ballad," "You Are My Lady," "Here and Now" and "Always and Forever" are more lyrically and musically appropriate for a wedding.

But AS A FACT I've never heard "Adore" at a wedding -- which runs contrary to the term "wedding song staple." Given that 40-odd weddings is a more than large enough sample population for me to make an informed decision beyond my personal wedding (and the weddings I attended mostly used contemporary music in either the ceremony or reception), it's hard for me to call that a "wedding song staple" particularly when some of the people whose wedding I attended were Prince fans.

You know the funny part is? The song IN MY OPINION that's more apt to be called "Prince's greatest love song" because of its lyrical content and a "wedding song staple" is "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" -- not to mention it's ARGUABLY a song more associated with Prince than "Adore." And yes, I HAVE heard "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" at weddings (both in the ceremony and at the reception).

namepeace said:

It sounds to me that you're the on with his or her drawers all bunched up because "Adore" isn't looked at in some regards as one of the greatest soul ballads IN YOUR OPINION. Two other people have given you the same response and you have acted like someone said "Adore" was crap.

Just like IN MY OPINION, "Adore" is not even an essential song for a Prince compilation -- much less something you want to be so revered.

namepeace said:

True, but given that my opinion is also one based on dealing in mass communications in TWO mediums pertaining to popular black music -- which include among other things, listening to the demands of the public and having access to the people and information involved in the formulating and disseminating such information -- it gives me more opportunities to hear others' voices and a better way of gauging such interest. That doesn't mean it's better, just that I have a greater pool from which to absorb information.

That's different from someone sitting in a vacuum trying to enforce his or her opinion as fact (which is you). Possibly a myopic view created in the vacuum called a Prince Web site, mind you.

I'm moving on. Take care.
[Edited 2/2/08 11:52am]

LittleAmy said:

Well, you have been doing quite a bit of quibbling.



Read what I wrote. Good night, I can take divergent opinions, but what I can't deal with is mischaracterization. I said many, if not most of the songs you mentioned were released 30 years ago. We're well into 2008.




I'm quibbling over dates because I carefully framed my assertion.



But again, in the untold number of songs that have been released in the last 30 years, you're saying, from your perspective, that "Adore" isn't one of the best. That's your opinion, of course. You can name songs more significant than "Adore" because they're more significant to you. My argument stands. "Adore" is widely . . . perceived . . . as one of the best soul songs of the last 30 years. You can debate the merits of that perception if you want to, but you cannot disprove that.




I see, we're changing the definition from "best" to "significant," terms which are not mutually inclusive. I said "best." It is pointless for you to try to discredit an argument I never made. I chose my words very carefully. I can't say the same for you.



You're a fortysomething. Go to a thirtysomething's wedding sometime. Therein lies the problem with your entire argument. Your arguments have continually contained the implication that if it doesn't "resonate" with fortysomethings, then it can't be that great. Which wasn't even my point. I was saying a lot of different people feel differently from you about a song, and you're relying on your knowledge, impressive and grounded as it may be, to disprove a belief. Not to discredit it, but to disprove it. That's where our disconnect lies.



I didn't even cite the piece for the "wedding staple" part, but in any event, I've heard those songs as well at fortysomethings' weddings, and for that matter, at fiftysomethings' gatherings. Thirtysomethings revere those songs too. But thirtysomethings also have a high regard for "Adore." I've heard it at a wedding or two.




That's fine, but your argument was tangential to the point. The point was the perception of the song.



Well, then, your beef is with the author. If he says it's a wedding song staple, take it up with him. Thirtysomethings get married too, on information and belief.



Okay. This guy said it was a wedding song staple. He must have the same evidentiary basis you do. Is his opinion any less informed than yours?



So you use crass language, and I'm the one that's upset? Really?

I talked about the perceptions of "Adore." Not even you, with your purportedly extensive knowledge of soul music, can dispute that those perceptions are out there. I have my own personal opinions about the song, but again, I was talking perception.



I'm not asking you or anyone to revere anything. All I'm saying is that the song is widely revered. And it is. Right or wrong. You're trying to misstate my argument because you have yet to refute it.




Aren't we the expert?

One of the friends I polled on this very topic, a black woman just like yourself, has been DJ for nearly 2 decades and a music journalist as well, mining the same field you have mined. Now, I wasn't gonna bring this in, but here's what she said.



Is that to discredit your opinion? Nope. You're welcome to it and you should be proud of it. As I told you in my very first direct communication to you, you can add a lot to this form on the basis of your knowledge

But there are people out there who are just as if not more experienced than you who think quite the opposite. And you've spent a lot of energy trying to disprove that, which is impossible.

Heck, a lot of people younger than you or I are going to say that an Usher song is one of the greatest soul songs of the last 30 years, someday. We could both say they're crazy. But are they exist.



All I said was this:



IS ain't anywhere in there, sister. You ignore that again, and again. And again.

And because you don't feel the song is that great, and you are (ahem) oh so experienced, you say I'M in a vacuum. That I'm myopic because I post on a Prince forum. That I don't know that much about soul music.

The fact that I'm a thirtysomething and you're a fortysomething with decidedly different experiences doesn't factor into your decision. Nor does the fact that I've cited anecdotal and documented evidence that lends credence to my opinion.

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people believe something, and you're trying to debate the merits of the belief. I've been asking you to disprove the belief exists.



Well, the next time you see somebody say that there are a lot of people that subscribe to the point of view, make sure that you can disprove the statement. And remember this . . .

"When the pen is unleashed with . . . fury . . . it is the [person], not the subject, that becomes exhausted." -- Thomas Paine

Be well.

Dance said:

-----
"Sexual Healing and Adore suck balls" You wrote this and you are telling some to get off meth?

LittleAmy said:

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Warner Brothers did not know shit about RnB music. That is the reason Adore is not on the lastest greatest hits. When P finally got around to performing this song in concert people were falling out in their seats.
Adore is very popular tune on RnB radio has been for the last 20 years. Your great pool from which you absorb information is lacking when it comes to understanding the popularity of the song.