Cyndi Lauper has always been gay friendly for a long as I can remember... She Bop anyone?...

Aww, she oughta leave the gay people alone.
They have enough problems with liking Cher, Liza Minnelli & CHiPs reruns.

oh, i so loved CHiPs when i was a little boy, that and the dukes of hazzard

Illustrator said:

Timmy84 said:

What did Gloria say?

I find it odd that these types of artists (dance music divas) would make anti-gay comments.Don't they realize that gays make up most of their audience? LOL

How did Kylie and Madonna change their music that radically? There's always been a part of their sound that is very dance oriented. The recent shift in their sound is more about going back to doing the music that they are known for and that made them famous in the first place, rather than appealing to the gay audience specificallly.

I don't know if a pure dance sound would work for Cyndi. That would be an awfully radical change for her, since she's never really down a pure dance record. Kylie and Madonna were more going back to how they started.

Glindathegood said:

Have you heard the music Kylie was making in the '90s? Much of it was INDIE!! She was working with people like The Manic Street Preachers. She'd been trying to go "edgy" since leaving SAW and her career tanked as a result. She was dropped by her record company. After that, everyone agreed she would have to start targeting the gay audience in order to get back on top. Madonna also blatantly targeted the gay dollar after "American Life" flopped. Cher had always done rock music before, but revived her career after she took business advice to target the gay audience. None of this is any great secret and none of it bothers me since I don't regard any of those three as serious musical acts, but Cyndi is a different proposition. She's a genuine talent and someone who is genuinely musical, so I really don't want to see her let marketing considerations ruin her music.

SoulAlive said:

Something about how she believes in everything the Bible "says", lol, but never really saying anything, lol. Just letting people use their imagination. Apparently some take that as gay-bashing.

Cinnie said:

midnightmover said:

As far as I know, Kylie did one semi-indie album. Before that her music was very much dance oriented. Madonna did American Life, but before that with her first album and albums like Erotica she has always been a very dance oriented artist.
I don't agree with you that Madonna and Kylie lack talent or aren't musical.
Any everyone regardless of whether they have talent or not, has to consider their audience or marketing considerations, or they won't surive in the current industry.
Also, I think it's unfair to equate dance music with gay. Lots of non-gay people like dance music and lots of gay people don't like dance music.
I think Kylie's and Madonna's shift was more about reclaiming their original audience who were used to their dance stuff, and hated their more indie/alternative releases.

Glindathegood said:

Well, the people running gay clubs disagree with you. I saw interviews with many of them bragging about how Madonna and Kylie were actively pitching their music to the gay audience.

midnightmover said:

I'm sure that "people running gay clubs" are in high demand to be interviewed for their opinions on Madonna and Kylie's musical direction. "Bragging" about it, no less.

Madonna and Kylie have had a big gay following from the beginning, because they are colourful women who make music and embrace the community. Same with Cyndi. Dolly Parton has a big gay following, too. It has nothing to do with the style of music.
[Edited 1/18/08 12:35pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Indeed they are, at least here in the UK. When Madonna came out with "Confessions" I kept seeing the same guy on every goddamn report bragging about Madonna wooing the gays. On most Kylie documentaries (and there are tons of them on this side of the water) there would be at least one interview with the manager of London's leading gay club (I forget the name) talking about how gays were ecstatic to "have her back" after she went all alternative in the 90s. Sorry, but this is how it went down, and you guys only make yourself look dishonest when you try and deny it.

midnightmover said:

I saw that interview. He meant that gays were glad to have Kylie back on the dance floor. He is a club owner, after all, so no shit he would say that. But gays still bought her 1998 alternative effort.
[Edited 1/18/08 12:44pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Yes, and to her credit she does not let that dictate the kind of music she does. Up until now Cyndi hadn't either, but it looks as though that may be about to change. I've already explained this point a dozen times, but you seem to be deliberately missing it.

midnightmover said:

Frankly the title of this thread and the way you phrase your words made some of us wonder if you truly think it is a bad thing for Cyndi to embrace the gay community, and also wonder why you think dance and dance-pop are "gay" genres when the majority of the world is straight and somehow dance in clubs to the exact same music.

VoicesCarry said:

Dude, there was more than one interview, and it's interesting that you've seen the kind of interview I mentioned, yet in your previous post you feigned ignorance and implied I was making it up.

midnightmover said:

I haven't seen interviews with "many of them bragging about how Madonna and Kylie were actively pitching their music to the gay audience". I saw an interview in which one club owner said that he was glad Kylie was making a return to the dance floor.

VoicesCarry said:

Here is what you said....."I'm sure that "people running gay clubs" are in high demand to be interviewed about their opinions on Madonna and Kylie's musical direction". This sarcastic post implied they were not being interviewed about their opinions, yet you've now admitted that you yourself have seen just such an interview. Funny how you forgot that when it suited you.

P.S. I have to leave now, but I'll be back to correct your other misleading statements.
[Edited 1/18/08 12:57pm]

midnightmover said:

You don't have to bother coming back, because I won't be replying to any of your posts ever again. There's a subtle homophobia in this thread that I (and others) are not pleased with. Have a great day.

Glindathegood said:

KM94 was far from Indie mostly RnB from that time and Dance

Impossible Princess was part indie part dance. Too Far, Say Hey, Limbo, Dreams, Jump all very dancy/trance/chill out


In the 90s people were tired of Kyile.

Gay people buy more than Dance music by the way.

midnightmover said:

G-A-Y everyone plays there. Everyone that wants to be a star that is.

ehuffnsd said:

I don't know why people don't realize that, lol. Gay people love all kinds of music too, lol. Who matters, gay, straight, bi, lesbian, tranny, etc., dig all kinds of music, lol. They could have a "preference" to the music they listen to but that's not all that they listen to.

The phrase which probably upset you all is when I said she may be "pandering to the gay market". Well, I'm sorry, but I won't be taking that back anytime soon. Here are the facts. Cyndi has been unable to get a proper album released now for over a decade. Her last album "Shine" was released only in Japan. No European or American record label would touch her. For this reason she had to do first a Christmas album, then a standards album, and then an album of re-recordings of her hits because the "gatekeepers" (Cyndi's word) weren't interested in her original stuff. In other words she is simply not free to do her own music her own way, unless she opts out of the old sytem totally like TTD (which I think would be a good idea, but is obviously not something that appeals to Cyndi).

Given all that, it's clear Cyndi's decision to embrace this Euro dance stuff is yet another concession to the "gatekeepers" who rightly recognise that exploiting her popularity with gays is her best bet for commercial success. From a business perspective it's perfectly logical, but from an artistic perspective it's sacriledge for one simple reason. Euro dance music is shit! I hated it long before I knew gay people liked it, so you need to take that "homophobia" crap and stick it where the sun don't shine. I also doubt very much if Cyndi really, in her heart of hearts, loves that music. She's just doing what she has to do to get back in a position of autonomy. The fact is, she shouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Record companies should recognise her specialness and support her, then she wouldn't have to lower herself.

But, like I said earlier, she has some great songs there too, and the project is not finished so I'm still looking forward to it. "Set Your Heart" (the dancey track) is actually a good song with great verses, so it's not all doom and gloom. My fingers are crossed.
[Edited 1/19/08 9:54am]

midnightmover said:

That could be said about a number of artists who've had horrific experiences with the music biz machine.

Still, your comments about "lowering herself" to be more appealing to a gay market are really offensive. Change "gay" to any other demographic, and you might see what I mean. "He shouldn't lower himself as an artist to attract those black listeners..."

Cyn and the other artists you mentioned have had fairly diverse followings throughout their careers. I don't think you could honestly pinpoint a time -- epsecially in Madonna's case -- where her music shifted toward "gay" listeners.

And, I wouldn't know how you could define a gay music lover by what they like to hear.



.
[Edited 1/19/08 10:18am]

ThreadBare said:

Here we go again. I suppose you're gonna tell me there's actually no such thing as the "gay market" too, huh? And by the way, dissing dance music is no more hompohobic than dissing hip-hop is racist. As many others have pointed out gays don't just listen to one type of music, but for some reason this crappy dance stuff is popular in gay clubs. So making that type of music is a logical business move, but I'm sorry, I see that music as soulless and mindless. I always felt that way. That's my instinctive MUSICAL reaction. Whoever happens to like it makes no difference to me. It's still junk. Cyndi is better than that, so yes, she is lowering herself. It's fine to do it on special occasions, but to push aside real music on your official album just to target a specific market (let's call it the gay club market, rather than just the gay market) is not something I can approve of. I love Cyndi, but if I didn't say how I felt, I'd be no different to the various zealots on this site who blindly defend their idols' every move.

ThreadBare said:

Just to clarify this point. Black music is at an all time low point right now, so if she started aping that style, then you can be sure I'd criticise her for that too.

Grammar edit.
[Edited 1/19/08 10:54am]

midnightmover said:

Actually, you're clarifying this thread's critics' point: What is gay music? What is black music, for that matter? There's more than one "style" to both demographics?

What about black gay music? What about gay black music? What does white music sound like, for that matter?

ThreadBare said:

If you actually read my posts you'll see I never called this dance stuff "gay music". What I said is that it's popular with the "gay market". Big difference. Now who knows, in ten years time gays may widely embrace a new style that I actually like, but right now the stuff they dance to in clubs is crap IMO. Just like the music played in most black clubs now is crap too. Cyndi shouldn't embrace crap. That's my point.

These days,it's all about survival.Cyndi has to do music that appeals to people..You want her to do that alternative stuff,but that kind of music obviously doesn't pay her bills She has to do something that people will actually buy.The gay/dance music market is a very profitable market,especially for older female artists,so why shouldn't she jump on it? Cher and Madonna have had tremendous success in this market,despite their age.