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PrintableVinnyM27 said: midnightmover said: Sorry, but over the years Mariah has written some good, solid pop songs like "Dream Lover" and "Make It Happen". She even wrote a classic quiet storm track ("Underneath The Stars"). No-one has ever questioned her authorship of these songs. You're ignoring this 'cos it demolishes your silly argument that people are only questioning Janet's contributions because she's a woman. Last time I checked, Mariah was a woman too. As for this argument being in my head, you're obviously not very sensitive to the sands shifting under your feet. As time is going by, more and more people, including hardcore Janet fans, are coming round to my way of thinking about Rene's contributions. You are a member of a dying breed of people who still regard Janet as a serious artist. Pretty soon you will be as old fashioned as the steam train or the wax cylinder. [Edited 2/28/08 12:22pm] A hardcore Mariah fan that is calling me delusional...Three words...pot kettle black! Go back and read my previous arguemets. I said Janet is not Dylan and she isn't even Jody Wately when it comes to songwriting. You are now twisting everything I said because I have given substational proof about my arguement that Janet's lack of songwriting is noticable here. To repeat, the girliness of all Janet albums before, including the "Rene" albums like "janet" and post-Rene albums like AFY (which you haven't heard yet base off singles...wow) that is totally missing off "Discipline". Why are here? It's one thing to crticize teh album and Janet, but you should have at least heard it (as well as Janet's prior 3 albums). You claim not to be interested in Janet at all and are only here to criticize, as if that will make "Touch My Body" listenable! Go back to your to crazy scrapbook, Rene. I'm finished repeating myself. 
Wow, you've been misrepresenting my arguments throughout this discussion, but now you're taking misrepresentation to even further heights. According to you I am now a "hardcore Mariah fan"  LOL!! Are you drunk?? I don't even have a single Mariah album in my home, nor would I ever have any desire to get one. I simply point out that she's written some solid material in the past and now I'm a "hardcore Mariah fan". lol, you may be dishonest in the extreme, but no-one can say you're not consistent. 
You also have missed the central point. The point is that after Rene left, the quality of her material nose-dived. I don't need to hear the whole AFY album to know that tracks like "Someone To Call My Lover" were worse than anything on the previous albums which I knew inside out. The amateurish lyrics on tracks like that are nowhere to be found on the albums where Rene is present. You can tell right away that a different person is writing the words, in the same way as you could tell that a different person wrote "Feedback". That was obvious as soon as you heard it. The lyric was too witty for her. You are one of a dying breed of people who still see Janet as the chief architect of her career in the Rene years. The evidence is piling up to illustrate Rene's massive role. Janet herself has acknowledged this. It seems only you and an ever decreasing number of die-hards are still disputing it. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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I think this will be my first Janet album bought since Control. Rock with you is really good. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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superspaceboy said: I think this will be my first Janet album bought since Control. Rock with you is really good.
I like the new album, but for it to appeal to someone that hasn't been into Janet since 1986, I would never have guessed! | |
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Moonbeam said: How would everyone here rank her albums from this decade?
I'd go something like this: All for You- 10/10 (my 2nd favorite Janet album) Discipline- 8/10 20 Y.O.- 8/10 Damita Jo- 7/10  :
All For You - 7.5 Discipline - 7 Damita Jo - 6.5 20 Y.O. - 6.5 As compared to Janet's earlier albums: The Velvet Rope - 9 Rhythm Nation 1814 - 9 Janet - 8.5 Control - 8 Dream Street - 6 Janet Jackson - 5.5 | |
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midnightmover said: VinnyM27 said: A hardcore Mariah fan that is calling me delusional...Three words...pot kettle black! Go back and read my previous arguemets. I said Janet is not Dylan and she isn't even Jody Wately when it comes to songwriting. You are now twisting everything I said because I have given substational proof about my arguement that Janet's lack of songwriting is noticable here. To repeat, the girliness of all Janet albums before, including the "Rene" albums like "janet" and post-Rene albums like AFY (which you haven't heard yet base off singles...wow) that is totally missing off "Discipline". Why are here? It's one thing to crticize teh album and Janet, but you should have at least heard it (as well as Janet's prior 3 albums). You claim not to be interested in Janet at all and are only here to criticize, as if that will make "Touch My Body" listenable! Go back to your to crazy scrapbook, Rene. I'm finished repeating myself.
Wow, you've been misrepresenting my arguments throughout this discussion, but now you're taking misrepresentation to even further heights. According to you I am now a "hardcore Mariah fan" LOL!! Are you drunk?? I don't even have a single Mariah album in my home, nor would I ever have any desire to get one. I simply point out that she's written some solid material in the past and now I'm a "hardcore Mariah fan". lol, you may be dishonest in the extreme, but no-one can say you're not consistent.
You also have missed the central point. The point is that after Rene left, the quality of her material nose-dived. I don't need to hear the whole AFY album to know that tracks like "Someone To Call My Lover" were worse than anything on the previous albums which I knew inside out. The amateurish lyrics on tracks like that are nowhere to be found on the albums where Rene is present. You can tell right away that a different person is writing the words, in the same way as you could tell that a different person wrote "Feedback". That was obvious as soon as you heard it. The lyric was too witty for her. You are one of a dying breed of people who still see Janet as the chief architect of her career in the Rene years. The evidence is piling up to illustrate Rene's massive role. Janet herself has acknowledged this. It seems only you and an ever decreasing number of die-hards are still disputing it. Rene might have made an impression and I even said the lyrics have gone down in quality since. It could be a result of his lyrics which he got no credit for but explain the entire "Control" album, as well as signature Janet tracks "Miss You Much" and "Love Will Never Do Without You" (as well as "The Knowledge"). All Jimmy and Terry! You give Rene and his possible writing too much credit. Basing an album of fifteen or so tracks on it's weakest single is crazy. It's seems to be you are basing Janet's entire career on that song when it was just one of her top ten singles, and I would even saw among her weakest. How would you like it if I based Mariah's career on her hit from 2001, the same year, "Loverboy"? Maybe I should base that entire album and everything she has done after it just on that track? That would be interesting. AFY is much more than that track and is very personal and emotional. DJ is an album that is lyrically all over the place and cannot be based off three songs! 20YO...It's very homogoneous and about all the same, so I won't argue. It's funny that someone discusses Mariahs' classic quiet storm track that I'm not very familar with...was it a single or just a track that you like? I'll have to take your word for it that it's a song that gets played on Quiet storm type stations even though I have never heard it. Tell you what? I won't pretend to be an expert on mariah albums I don't own, and you won't do the same with Janet albums you don't own? Also, it's worth noting that if Rene was such a talented songwritng and Janet (as well as the Jackson family) is hardly has any clout like they used to, why hasn't he hooked up with someone else? Seriously, where is he? Honestly, if he were such a force behind Janet and he proved little or nothing during those years, he should be writing songs! | |
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VinnyM27 said: midnightmover said:
Wow, you've been misrepresenting my arguments throughout this discussion, but now you're taking misrepresentation to even further heights. According to you I am now a "hardcore Mariah fan" LOL!! Are you drunk?? I don't even have a single Mariah album in my home, nor would I ever have any desire to get one. I simply point out that she's written some solid material in the past and now I'm a "hardcore Mariah fan". lol, you may be dishonest in the extreme, but no-one can say you're not consistent.
You also have missed the central point. The point is that after Rene left, the quality of her material nose-dived. I don't need to hear the whole AFY album to know that tracks like "Someone To Call My Lover" were worse than anything on the previous albums which I knew inside out. The amateurish lyrics on tracks like that are nowhere to be found on the albums where Rene is present. You can tell right away that a different person is writing the words, in the same way as you could tell that a different person wrote "Feedback". That was obvious as soon as you heard it. The lyric was too witty for her. You are one of a dying breed of people who still see Janet as the chief architect of her career in the Rene years. The evidence is piling up to illustrate Rene's massive role. Janet herself has acknowledged this. It seems only you and an ever decreasing number of die-hards are still disputing it. Rene might have made an impression and I even said the lyrics have gone down in quality since. It could be a result of his lyrics which he got no credit for but explain the entire "Control" album, as well as signature Janet tracks "Miss You Much" and "Love Will Never Do Without You" (as well as "The Knowledge"). All Jimmy and Terry! You give Rene and his possible writing too much credit. Basing an album of fifteen or so tracks on it's weakest single is crazy. It's seems to be you are basing Janet's entire career on that song when it was just one of her top ten singles, and I would even saw among her weakest. How would you like it if I based Mariah's career on her hit from 2001, the same year, "Loverboy"? Maybe I should base that entire album and everything she has done after it just on that track? That would be interesting. AFY is much more than that track and is very personal and emotional. DJ is an album that is lyrically all over the place and cannot be based off three songs! 20YO...It's very homogoneous and about all the same, so I won't argue. It's funny that someone discusses Mariahs' classic quiet storm track that I'm not very familar with...was it a single or just a track that you like? I'll have to take your word for it that it's a song that gets played on Quiet storm type stations even though I have never heard it. Tell you what? I won't pretend to be an expert on mariah albums I don't own, and you won't do the same with Janet albums you don't own? Also, it's worth noting that if Rene was such a talented songwritng and Janet (as well as the Jackson family) is hardly has any clout like they used to, why hasn't he hooked up with someone else? Seriously, where is he? Honestly, if he were such a force behind Janet and he proved little or nothing during those years, he should be writing songs! I've heard most of the singles she's released in the '00s and none of them have impressed me. And once again you are implying that I'm dismissing J&L. I have NO IDEA where you are getting this from. Jam & Lewis dictated Janet's whole sound and are great songwriters too. The only people I've ever heard try and downplay their importance are hardcore Janet fans who want to believe she makes an equal contribution to the music as they do. These fans are nuts. J&L gave her the same sound they gave their other artists. As for the Mariah song, "Underneath The Stars", it's a great song I recorded onto a blank cassette when I heard it years ago. Yes, it was so long ago, that we were still recording on cassette at the time (mid '90s). I haven't heard it in years, but it was a gorgeous song. Not that it's particularly relevant to this discussion. What's relevant is that her authorship has never been questioned. I'm certainly not a fan of hers, but it would be churlish to deny her talent. You could argue that Janet's back catalogue is stronger, but just on a pure talent level Mariah dwarfs Janet, who's only real talent is the ability to follow instructions from her choreographers. To put it another way, Janet-the-product was better than Mariah-the-product, but Mariah-the-individual was more talented than Janet-the-individual. I think that about sums it up. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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sextonseven said: superspaceboy said: I think this will be my first Janet album bought since Control. Rock with you is really good.
I like the new album, but for it to appeal to someone that hasn't been into Janet since 1986, I would never have guessed! I have always been curious about her music since Rhythm Nation, which I wasn't all that much into as it really was Control Pt 2. I kept finding myself running into her music without knowing it was her. My feelings about her are weird as I know she has integrity and longevity, but I find her music a bit plastic like...or more so by the numbers R&B, which is OK, but not my cup of tea. I do plan on blameing the org for this purchase though...you know in case my friends look at me funny.  Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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superspaceboy said: sextonseven said:
I like the new album, but for it to appeal to someone that hasn't been into Janet since 1986, I would never have guessed! I have always been curious about her music since Rhythm Nation, which I wasn't all that much into as it really was Control Pt 2. I kept finding myself running into her music without knowing it was her. My feelings about her are weird as I know she has integrity and longevity, but I find her music a bit plastic like...or more so by the numbers R&B, which is OK, but not my cup of tea. I do plan on blameing the org for this purchase though...you know in case my friends look at me funny. I can understand thinking of her music as plastic when you are used to listening to artists like Siouxsie, but saying her output from 86-97 is "by the numbers" R&B is doing it a great disservice. There was lots of mediocre R&B during that period, but Janet wasn't it. The last ten years however, I would say yes. | |
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sextonseven said: Moonbeam said: How would everyone here rank her albums from this decade?
I'd go something like this: All for You- 10/10 (my 2nd favorite Janet album) Discipline- 8/10 20 Y.O.- 8/10 Damita Jo- 7/10 :
All For You - 7.5 Discipline - 7 Damita Jo - 6.5 20 Y.O. - 6.5 All 4 U - 6 Damita Jo - 8 20 YO - 7 Discipline -8 I dont know why I couldnt LOOVE All 4U... Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records. | |
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paisleypark4 said: sextonseven said: :
All For You - 7.5 Discipline - 7 Damita Jo - 6.5 20 Y.O. - 6.5 All 4 U - 6 Damita Jo - 8 20 YO - 7 Discipline -8 I dont know why I couldnt LOOVE All 4U... All For You - 8 Discipline - 9 Damita Jo - 7 20 Y.O. - 7 | |
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Also, it's worth noting that if Rene was such a talented songwritng and Janet (as well as the Jackson family) is hardly has any clout like they used to, why hasn't he hooked up with someone else? Seriously, where is he? Honestly, if he were such a force behind Janet and he proved little or nothing during those years, he should be writing songs!
 LOVE HARD. | |
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Evvy said: Also, it's worth noting that if Rene was such a talented songwritng and Janet (as well as the Jackson family) is hardly has any clout like they used to, why hasn't he hooked up with someone else? Seriously, where is he? Honestly, if he were such a force behind Janet and he proved little or nothing during those years, he should be writing songs!
Didn't someone recently post a recent pic of Rene? He looked like he had been hitting the drugs pretty hard (either that or he just didn't age well). **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
U 'gon make me shake my doo loose! http://www.twitter.com/nivlekbrad | |
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THE MAESTRO LOVE HARD. | |
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MikeMatronik said: Oh hell no! 
 I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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Evvy said: Also, it's worth noting that if Rene was such a talented songwritng and Janet (as well as the Jackson family) is hardly has any clout like they used to, why hasn't he hooked up with someone else? Seriously, where is he? Honestly, if he were such a force behind Janet and he proved little or nothing during those years, he should be writing songs!
I co sign. Why would anyone waste time defending whether or not rene hector elizondo was instrumental in janet's success. It is a complete joke. He was along for the ride and she gave him an opportunity to share in her success by writing tunes along side her. If he was as creditable as people are trying to make him he would be writing tracks for beyonce, keyshia cole, or some of these other artists out here. Jermaine Dupri has more credibility as a songwriter even though he mainly writes shit hop tunes, he has written tunes for the likes of mariah carey, chante moore, lionel richie, etc. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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Feedback is currenly #9 on iTunes, and rising fast. It should easily be able to hit #35 or higher on the Hot 100 based on these impressions. If it hits #1 on iTunes, it will be Top 10 on the Hot 100. | |
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not really into this project.
but i gotta say i liked janets real world commerical on mtv and the other one with the 2 crews battling and shes all like -omg....-
ok that is all | |
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I'm loving what I've heard so far (this album is SOOOOO much better than the last two) but I keep going back to the same songs that I love. I need to absorb it, really.
My only disappointment? I could nearly CRY that they haven't included the video version of 'Feedback'.  Seriously.  I love that track - and the last 30 seconds - so much. Criminal. 
But good effort, Janet! | |
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onenitealone said: I'm loving what I've heard so far (this album is SOOOOO much better than the last two) but I keep going back to the same songs that I love. I need to absorb it, really.
My only disappointment? I could nearly CRY that they haven't included the video version of 'Feedback'. Seriously. I love that track - and the last 30 seconds - so much. Criminal.
But good effort, Janet! the deluxe version i bought has the Feedback video | |
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I looooove the new album, wowww, I can't stop playing it!
top 5 songs (as if that's enough!) 2nite so much betta can't be good never letchu go the 1 I feel guilty limiting it to those, cause I love the whole album, though I could do without Curtains. Loved feedback the minute I heard it as well, and bought the Deluxe Edition with the video. I don't even care that janet didn't write on it. I used to think of her as someone who wrote all her hit songs years ago, but if she's singing it and means it, it doesn't matter after all, it all still sounds like the type of music she does. [Edited 3/1/08 11:50am] | |
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banks said: the deluxe version i bought has the Feedback video
Cheers Kev  - I did see that but I'm not a MASSIVE fan; I knew I'd hardly watch the dvd so plumped for the regular version.
I'll have to wach the video regularly on Youtube. 
Thanks! . [Edited 3/1/08 12:20pm] | |
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I really hope they issue "2night" 2 the clubs with some major dance remixes. The original is bangin'. I can't wait to see what someone like Maurice Joshua can do with the song. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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daPrettyman said: I really hope they issue "2night" 2 the clubs with some major dance remixes. The original is bangin'. I can't wait to see what someone like Maurice Joshua can do with the song.
as much as I love rock with u, 2nite would have been a better choice for the next single | |
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onenitealone said: My only disappointment? I could nearly CRY that they haven't included the video version of 'Feedback'. Seriously. I love that track - and the last 30 seconds - so much. Criminal.
I couldn't quite figure it out when I heard the song on the CD...it is a lot shorter. Since this is a producer's album, that did not make a whole lot of sense. I have been listening to the CD a lot. It's not nearly as diverse as DJ, but it seems to have tracks that divide people (although everyone seems to love "Feedback"). I think I might cave in and buy the deluxe edition as well, too. | |
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VinnyM27 said: I couldn't quite figure it out when I heard the song on the CD...it is a lot shorter. Since this is a producer's album, that did not make a whole lot of sense. I have been listening to the CD a lot. It's not nearly as diverse as DJ, but it seems to have tracks that divide people (although everyone seems to love "Feedback"). I think I might cave in and buy the deluxe edition as well, too.
Hey Vince. 
Exactly!  Maybe the album was all finished and ready to go by the time they'd filmed the video but I find it hard to believe they couldn't include that version.  It's exactly the same with 'All For You' - I love that 'J Lo'-type breakdown in the middle of the video version. The first time I listened to the album, though, I was, like, Where the hell is that bit??.  . I was fuming. Even *now*, as much as I love that track, I wish I could walk around with that version blasting in my earphones.
As I'm typing this, however, I realise this happens all the time - and that's what makes the fans seek out videos, I guess.  (See: Raspberry Beret and the 'cough'). It gives a little 'twist' to the original track. But it's very annoying when that's the version you prefer.
I'm gonna keep an eye out for the Special Edition in the sales...  | |
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Heres Rene talking about his role in Janets career
| |
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Hey VoicesCarry - did you do a track by track rating/review?
If not, you should. I'm eager to hear what you think of this one. | |
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onenitealone said: VinnyM27 said: I couldn't quite figure it out when I heard the song on the CD...it is a lot shorter. Since this is a producer's album, that did not make a whole lot of sense. I have been listening to the CD a lot. It's not nearly as diverse as DJ, but it seems to have tracks that divide people (although everyone seems to love "Feedback"). I think I might cave in and buy the deluxe edition as well, too.
Hey Vince.
Exactly! Maybe the album was all finished and ready to go by the time they'd filmed the video but I find it hard to believe they couldn't include that version. It's exactly the same with 'All For You' - I love that 'J Lo'-type breakdown in the middle of the video version. The first time I listened to the album, though, I was, like, Where the hell is that bit??. . I was fuming. Even *now*, as much as I love that track, I wish I could walk around with that version blasting in my earphones.
As I'm typing this, however, I realise this happens all the time - and that's what makes the fans seek out videos, I guess. (See: Raspberry Beret and the 'cough'). It gives a little 'twist' to the original track. But it's very annoying when that's the version you prefer.
I'm gonna keep an eye out for the Special Edition in the sales... I want to say that the video verison of "Rasphberry Beret" was released on CD...what it on the "Ulimate Prince"? Yeah, the thing that is so confusing about the video verison of the song is it's also the same on radio and that was on Itunes (and might still be). The album is definately going to debut at number one (if 20YO and DJ were released in better weeks, they would have as well since their debut numbers were not bad) but I'm hoping "Feedback" as a single at least hits top 20 after all is said and done. It's so strong. BTW, I think everyone is saying that the Special edition is not different musically as far as playing the known verison of "Feedback"...it just includes the music video on the bonus DVD. I'm going to reserve it at Best Buy now and can always cancel it later. This way, I get the best price ($11.99...I doubt it will go down ever again and if anything, they will overcharge for it later). | |
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VinnyM27 said: I want to say that the video verison of "Rasphberry Beret" was released on CD...what it on the "Ulimate Prince"? Yeah, the thing that is so confusing about the video verison of the song is it's also the same on radio and that was on Itunes (and might still be). The album is definately going to debut at number one (if 20YO and DJ were released in better weeks, they would have as well since their debut numbers were not bad) but I'm hoping "Feedback" as a single at least hits top 20 after all is said and done. It's so strong. BTW, I think everyone is saying that the Special edition is not different musically as far as playing the known verison of "Feedback"...it just includes the music video on the bonus DVD. I'm going to reserve it at Best Buy now and can always cancel it later. This way, I get the best price ($11.99...I doubt it will go down ever again and if anything, they will overcharge for it later). True - it is on 'Ultimate Prince' but I was thinking more back in the day, in terms of album format. You could always get the 12", for example, but wouldn't get it on the accompanying album.
This is why Prince should re-release ALL his albums, including B-sides/remixes/extended versions! (I, er, have them all on cd already  but it would be nice to have official versions  ).
Janet's come out with a great one, this time.  | |
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