SoulAlive said:

I can't agree with that. While I think "Smooth Criminal" is more than a little overrated, "Dirty Diana" and "Speed Demon" are great songs to my ears.

bad is the only song that was obviously made for a big video and hit. The rest stand on their own as good music in my opinion, whether it's good 80's music or good music on it's own.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if invincible had more videos, would those songs have sounded better to most people here? Though I like invincible as a whole, something about it needs more life, and that could be a music video. To me, michael's music videos and dancing, as great as they are, are a bonus, for me it's all about the music when it comes to him.

LightOfArt said:

Better yet, compare his vocals there to his vocals from just a year earlier on the first leg of the Bad Tour. Vocally, he was in the best shape of his life in 1987. By the time the tour re-convened in 1988 something had happened. Suddenly, Mike's voice was cracking all over the place. As the tour progressed it got worse. From that point on, miming became a necessity.

whatsgoingon said:

You think "Fly Away" is a great song? Both that and "Streetwalker" are totally disposable. Compared to more talented songwriters like Springsteen, Prince, and Dylan, Mike's outtakes are extremely poor. The only track that was genuinely worthy of being included on an album was "Someone Put Your Hand Out".

his voice was strained by the second leg for sure though I respect him for doing it live for as long as he can. I'll bet it was that unnecessary tarzan screaming onstage that affected it.

midnightmover said:

Well to me I think "Fly Away" is better than most of the songs on Bad, thats my opinion. I believe the reason why it wasn't included on the original Bad album is because it was too mellow and R&B, it would have fitted better on the Thriller album or even the Dangerous album. It's obvious MJ wanted Bad to sound as poppy as possible, therefore it meant the more R&B sounds had to be limited.

whatsgoingon said:

On the whole I'd say Mike has got most of his decisions right in terms of what to leave off of albums (I don't know about the Invincible cuts though). IMO tracks like Fly Away and Streetwalker were left off simply because they weren't good enough. Although, it has to be said, choosing material is not as difficult for him as it is for some other artists because the majority of his unreleased stuff is so forgettable.

midnightmover said:

As far as I remember Sony asked MJ to ditch the original configuration of Invincible.

MikeMatronik said:

true

alphastreet said:

Yeah his screaming destroyed his voice on stage.

Timmy84 said:

But the Bad album, he started to do this James Brown esque style. That raspy half singing/half rapping that he started to do more regularly on songs like Jam, Why You Wanna Trip On Me, She Drives Me Wild, Can't Let Her Get Away, Scream, They Don't Care About Us, DS, 2Bad, Unbreakable, Privacy.....
The positive about Invincible was that he actually sang on several of the songs like Break Of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, Butterflies, Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and You Are My Life

bboy87 said:

Compare the vocal performances on the album to the ones you hear on tour and you can clearly hear the difference. Even in the "Another Part Of Me" video he doesn't quite have the smoothness you hear on the album. In "Dirty Diana" he struggles to hit some of the higher notes. However, at the start of the tour he was replicating the studio vocals on "Bad" quite easily. It was funny, 'cos performance wise Machael was on fire throughout the whole of that tour, but the vocals got worse as it went on. Listen to the final concert in '89 and you'll hear what I mean.

He was so fine.
[Edited 1/4/08 19:47pm]

MikeMatronik said:

So the King Of Pop doesn't even have the final say over his own album. Some king. Well, if Mike feels like trying out a new look, I've got a good one...

midnightmover said:

Well, many performers have dealt with the same thing so.....

bboy87 said:

They don't all call themselves king though. In the '80s and early '90s no-one could have told Mike shit. He could have told Walter Yetnikoff to jump naked through a burning hoop and he would've done it. By the 00s though, seems like he was Tommy Mottola's bitch.

midnightmover said:

But Tommy got fired from Sony Music because the powers that be in Japan are friends Mr. Cash Cow Jackson

Can I just say I feel like kicking Michael in the balls after listening to those remixes?

bboy87 said:

But you have to admit, when things are going great, Mike's a'ight with everything but when everything goes shitty, he steps on his soap box. But I wonder how his relationship with Sony is REALLY like here in the US.
[Edited 1/4/08 20:29pm]

dated??? To me it's quite the opposite actually. I think it holds up incredibly well to this day, and DIRTY DIANA is the type of stuff Michael should have made more of. Awesome.

It especially sounds dated if you compare to Off The Wall or Thriller, they actually stood the test of time and still sound fresh.

What a dumbass thread!
mike brought a very cool show to the people at the time. people loved it at the time and that's what matters.

Rightly said:

Why is it stupid to discuss if something released 20 years ago stood the test of time or not?

LiveToTell86 said:

well isn't this just another opportunity to bitch about MJ.
I hate when certain members of the org do that

LiveToTell86 said:

I am sure the discussion about Madonna's True Blue in this thread is of interest to you.

LiveToTell86 said:

Just leave