bboy87 said:

I think Dangerous is PERFECT from start to finish. Sure, I'm not a huge fan of Heal the World, but I do LOVE the album. It is my favorite album of all time...from any artist.

Out of all his albums Bad sounds the most dated and chessey. But at the same time it is his most poppy album so maybe that has something to do with it.

I went to a party the other day and they played Wannabe Startin Something(Thriller) and Don't Stop Till U Get Enough ( Off The Wall) and both sounded so fresh. Great, classic albums tend to have an evergreen sound something that Bad never did have.

Btw I believe Michael's most timeless song ever, well its more a Jacksons song that a solo song is, Let Me Show You the way To Go. This is one of the most evergreen songs I have ever heard, if any album has up to half of the album with songs such as this then that albums will surely go on to be a classic, regardless of sales.
[Edited 1/1/08 6:06am]

the album just doesn't flow nicely, it seems more like a singles collection to me.

BTW: What do people think of "the way you make me feel?" - i think it's really cheesy but some people think it's one of his best songs

henree said:

The explanation is simple. After "Thriller" did what it did, Michael's confidence was sky-high. He was on top of the world and no-one would ever be able to tell him anything again. Whereas Quincy had been the boss on "Thriller" and "Off The Wall", by the time of "Bad", Michael was making all the final decisions. One of the main arguments they had was over the sounds. Michael speaks about it in his autobiography. Michael felt they should use all the latest sounds. Quincy strongly disagreed. Quincy was right and Michael was wrong, but Michael got his way. Quincy, as a true musician, would have known how cold and mechanical those sounds were, but all Michael cared about was that they were new and modern. He mistakenly thought if he didn't follow the fashion of the time his music would seem like "old hat". He was far from alone in this folly, but there were a few wise souls who bucked that trend. One of them was Prince. Listen to tracks like "Alphabet Street" or "Sign O The Times" and they sound just as fresh today as they did then. Even Madonna bucked the trend in 1989 on "Like A Prayer" by having a more organic sound which has dated far better than other pop albums of the period. It just goes to show that fashion makes fools of those who blindly follow it.

P.S. For more evidence of how Mike's confidence and power after "Thriller" changed his working relationships, look at the John Landis collaborations. In "The Making Of Thriller" you see Landis being totally irreverent to Mike. At one point he even puts Mike over his shoulder and carries him down the goddamn street. Well, fast forward to the making of "Black Or White" and the shoe is totally on the other foot. Mike is playing practical jokes on Landis, dipping his tie in a cup of tea, etc. The dynamic had completely changed. Michael would never again defer to anyone.

midnightmover said:

But Qunciy was satisfied with the whole project and the sound,you're making it like Mj's produced the entire album against Quincy's will, MJ wanted to take a major role in writing the album and he brillaintly acheieved that, the entire album was written by him except two songs,it has nothing to do with the prodcution , Qunicy said that they did their best work together (Off the wall, Bad ,Thriller), Im not conviced with your explaination at all and it doesn't make sense,I agree with what novabrkr said ...Still Bad is a brilliant album.

midnightmover said:

LOL.....what you are talking about, you analyze things so much .....Not convinced either.

SoulAlive said:

Same here. I was a HUGE MJ fan at the time, but even at that impressionable age, this album left me cold. It was the videos and performances I was thrilling to, not the songs at this point. If this album had been released by anyone else, it would be completely forgotten by now. Compared to other albums released that year by Mike's peers, "Bad" falls embarrasingly flat. Think of Terence Trent D'arby's "Introducing The Hardline", Prince's "Sign O The Times", or George Michael's "Faith". Compared to those albums "Bad" sounds as childish and outdated as a GI Joe action toy. Sure, it has it's moments. "Another Part Of Me" and "Man In The Mirror" particularly. And the verses of "Dirty Diana" are great, but the chorus is a bit too repetitive and predictable. The rest of it was "Sesame Street" in motorcycle gear. If I were to listen to the album now it would be more as a kitsch timepiece than anything else. Listened to in that way, I suppose it can be enjoyed.

Well, the amount of bass / treble still doesn't outdo the fact how MJ & Quincy approached the synthesizer textures and the drum programming on the album, so if it sounds dated to many ears, I don't think they're totally wrong about their opinion either (it's my own personal opinion as well - altough MJ/Q still did also use the same instrumentation as before, so maybe the datedness has actually more to do with i.e. the reverberation effects and the arrangements in general)However, if we're honest about it, I don't think too many albums made during that period sounded anything like "Bad" did. Maybe it just suffered from having been in production for so many years?

Mancab: Out of all the songs on that one I do also think "The Way You Make Me Feel" has dated the most. The melody of the chorus especially sounds oddly forced to me these days.

seeingvoices12 said:

Quincy's fingerprints are all over the album in the layering of instruments and the trademark horns, etc., but the main thing that hurt "Bad" was the cheesy 80s synth sounds which dominate the album. That was Mike's call. Read his autobiography. Whilst discussing the making of "Bad", he openly says that they argued about this very point. If you don't believe it then you need to argue with Michael, not me.


As if proof were needed of your short sightedness you can't even see how Mike's working relationship with John Landis completely changed from "Thriller" to "Black Or White". Anyone with any sense who's seen the "Making Of Thriller" and then seen the footage of the making of "Black Or White" will notice right away how the relationship had completely changed, with Michael now being much more dominant. Re-read my post. I gave very specific examples. It's incredible how lacking in observational powers some MJ fans are.

Rodya24 said:

The one on the right was Mike's choice for the album cover. And on a totally seperate, unconnected note, let me just say that Michael is totally heterosexual.

The actual "Bad" album cover might look a bit silly nowadays, but it was one of the most essential pieces of 80s cultural iconography. Far much more probably than the Thriller cover picture.

Mind you, Jackson never really looked like himself in any of his album covers. Probably the closest one to reality is the painting on the Blood On The Dance Floor release.
[Edited 1/1/08 9:14am]

dirtyman2005 said:

I can´t say that Bad is my favourite Mj album, there are great songs on it - Liberian Girl, I just can´t stop loving you, Another part of me, Dirty Diana.
The only problem is that some of the songs have been overplayed a bit just like Billie Jean or Black or White, but that doesn´t mean they aren´t great.

Another Part Of Me
Man In The Mirror
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
Smooth Criminal
Streetwalker

novabrkr said:

I mean, there is nothing wrong with a dated sounding recording if it's over 20 years old. Bad captures a place in time, and I think that any recording that relies so heavily on all the technology and synths available during the time of recording is going to show its age.

We keep comparing Bad to OTW or Thriller which were more acoustic.

Cinnie said:

That's my point in a nutshell.

Yeah, Bad sounds dated, extremely dated: slick synths, lifeless "basslines" (I mean, no funky ), glam-metal guitars, gloss keyboards, thunderous drum machines, etc. It's a product of the mainstream techniques of the 87-90 years. Still, this album is full of some of the best MJ singles of all time; for god's sake, just look how the albums ends: Man in the mirror, Can't stop loving you, Dirty Diana, Smooth Criminal, Leave me alone...I repeat: for god's sake

Nevertheless, the 2001's remastered-special edition really improves the original CD

So
Production:
Songwriting:

JoeTyler said:

So you're being sarcastic?

I would like to seriously know if people cared for the remaster of Bad.

I only bought Off The Wall and Thriller's remasters. I didn't think Thriller needed it and I kept my original Thriller CD, so I didn't proceed buying remasters for Bad or Dangerous.

tangent: I REALLY don't know why a person would need a remaster for Dangerous, because that shit is still bangin', and the remaster doesn't offer any bonus outtakes, etc.

Cinnie said:

Cinnie said:

The remastered version of Dangerous sounds loud and clean, and erases the heavy Q-Sound from the original version

And the remastered version of Bad is ESSENTIAL, the original Cd sounded terrible.
Just look at Prince and some his 80's albums: Parade, ATWIAD, Sign o the times or Lovesexy need serious remastering...

Nevertheless, any sound technician or producer would tell you that a remastered version always sounds BETTER than the original 80's-early 90's cd's
[Edited 1/1/08 11:45am]

JoeTyler said:

Actually, you'll find that people will pay for original CDs BECAUSE of the mastering - recent remasters all seem to use a sonic maximizer and brickwall limiter leaving some parts of the new waveform looking like a shoebox.

That's a whole 'nother discussion but I thought I might as well point that out.

To me bad, dated music has every hacky sound and loop of its particular time(the mark of a studio musician or talentless wad)and ISN'T enjoyed years later like a lot of the records BURIED at the end of each decade. Bad has legs.

JoeTyler said:

I either didn't realize or I forgot that Dangerous had Q-Sound??

Do the vocals to the title track still have that weird flange on them?

JoeTyler said:

I'm just wondering if the remaster for Bad is at all bassier or simply louder, and is hoping for bass just looking for something that isn't there?

Can I just add that I think the remastered version of "I Want You Back" on 2000's Anthology sounded really weird and unlike the original to me?

Cinnie said:

Louder

Cinnie said:

I've got that album and I can't say I've ever noticed that. I'll have to give it another listen.

Cloudbuster said:

It's like they were forced to recreate the mix of the drums, guitar, strings, and vocals and even had to pan them again and didn't quite get it.

Cinnie said:

I'll go check it out later and compare it to the version on The Ultimate Collection. See if I can hear the difference.

Cloudbuster said:

You'd have to compare it to something older than The Ultimate Collection probably since that came out after 2000.

Cinnie said:

Could be that the one on TUC is simply a cleaned up version of the original master, tho'.
I've got the song on about six different albums anyway so hopefully at least one of them will be the original version.

kash said:

I agree. I love the synthy sounds... and great songs... Smooth Criminal is amazing... my favorite MJ song...

I don't think the original CD master sounds bad... still very dynamic.

Think about the burst on the intro to "Smooth Criminal"