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PrintableI am not a fan of Janet Jackson. But I do like almost all of her singles.
I think the Superbowl incident was planned. However, I TRULY believe that the reaction to it was racist, sexist, and ageist. Moreover, the incident happened during a time of war, and conservatives pounced on the chance to tighten their hold on TV. midnightmover: do you think there was an element of racism, sexism, or ageism or all three in the reaction to the incident whether or not it was planned? | |
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midnightmover said: lowkey said: how did i dodge the question, i think my response was in english. when we pointed out that justin did admit it was an accident you dismissed it saying..well that was his publicist,when i clearly saw justin with my own eyes call it a wardrobe malfunction...but you claim well that was after it blew up. then when i pointed out how justin had plenty of reasons not to speak on it years later(i mean be for real why in hell would he bring it up if he got away from the incident clear and free of any damage?).i never said justin has spoken about the issue you did, i dont call what was asked of him on the interview really speaking on it..all he said was- yes i probably could have said more and stood up for janet...if it was planned what could he have said to help? like i said before if it was planned or not it dont change the double standard.you can spin the situation to fit your opinions all you want but the fact is justin DID call it a wardrobe malfunction,and once it was clear janet was gonna be crucified for the bullshit justin had every reason to distant himself from her and it. Are you trying to be this dim? You're talking about why he hasn't spoken more about the issue, but that is not the question. We're talking about the few times he DID speak about it. Why when he DID speak about it did he not say it was an accident? That's the question. [Edited 12/2/07 18:25pm] ok this is getting silly now so im not gonna entertain you no more,JUSTIN SAID IT WAS A WARDROBE MALFUNCTION, if you didnt believe him thats on you but he said it. also how did janet use him? mtv wanted justin to perform not janet, if im not mistaking the malfunction happened during his song not hers...so if you are saying it was planned then justin was just as much a part of it as janet was.you keep asking the question WHY DIDNT HE SAY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, im sure im not the only one who remembers him clearly stating it was back in 2004 when it happened. | |
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midnightmover said: lowkey said: so when is the next 'i hate janet' rally? If you're honest you'll admit that my point is logical. I also guarantee that no-one will be able to give a convincing response to this point. there is no reason for nobody to try and convince you because you wont even accept what is a fact..justin timberlake called it a wardrobe malfunction, period. | |
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lowkey said: midnightmover said: Are you trying to be this dim? You're talking about why he hasn't spoken more about the issue, but that is not the question. We're talking about the few times he DID speak about it. Why when he DID speak about it did he not say it was an accident? That's the question. [Edited 12/2/07 18:25pm] ok this is getting silly now so im not gonna entertain you no more,JUSTIN SAID IT WAS A WARDROBE MALFUNCTION, if you didnt believe him thats on you but he said it. also how did janet use him? mtv wanted justin to perform not janet, if im not mistaking the malfunction happened during his song not hers...so if you are saying it was planned then justin was just as much a part of it as janet was.you keep asking the question WHY DIDNT HE SAY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, im sure im not the only one who remembers him clearly stating it was back in 2004 when it happened. I added a little to that post. If you go back you'll see the newer version. I don't remember seeing Justin say it was an accident. I saw his speech a few days afterwards. That would have been a time when I would certainly expect him to say that it was an accident and he didn't. Why not? Since he was speaking about it anyway. Even Janet has only repeated that story a handful of times. If I was her and it was really an accident I'd take every opportunity to repeat "IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!" I'd scream it from the goddamn rooftops! I'd hold a press conference with the costume designer and demonstrate what was meant to happen and how it went wrong. She's done none of those things. Common sense should tell you there's a reason for that. As for saying it was Justin's performance GTFOH! She was on the stage twice as long as him. Where were his dancers? Where were his crew? They weren't there because it wasn't his performance. Hell, he didn't even bother to shave or put on some fresh clothes for it. He was on downtime between albums. She was the one with a new album to promote. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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lowkey said: midnightmover said: If you're honest you'll admit that my point is logical. I also guarantee that no-one will be able to give a convincing response to this point. there is no reason for nobody to try and convince you because you wont even accept what is a fact..justin timberlake called it a wardrobe malfunction, period. I'm willing to believe that if someone shows me, but even if he did, it doesn't change the fact that he's never repeated the story since, even when he's had opportunities to do so. Why not? And why has Janet only repeated the story a few times. Why is she always so cagey on the subject? “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Rodya24 said: I am not a fan of Janet Jackson. But I do like almost all of her singles.
I think the Superbowl incident was planned. However, I TRULY believe that the reaction to it was racist, sexist, and ageist. Moreover, the incident happened during a time of war, and conservatives pounced on the chance to tighten their hold on TV. midnightmover: do you think there was an element of racism, sexism, or ageism or all three in the reaction to the incident whether or not it was planned? The reaction was of course ridiculous, but I believe the flack came down on Janet because it was her nipple exposed. Simple as that. Generaly speaking society always treats women more harshly than men in sexual matters so sexism is probably a factor, but the fact is it was Janet's nipple, not Justin's. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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midnightmover said: Even Janet has only repeated that story a handful of times. If I was her and it was really an accident I'd take every opportunity to repeat "IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!" I'd scream it from the goddamn rooftops! I'd hold a press conference with the costume designer and demonstrate what was meant to happen and how it went wrong. She's done none of those things. Common sense should tell you there's a reason for that.
Well, you are not her! Unlike you, she's got some pride left! She issued a statement and went on Access Hollywood (or was it Entertainment tonight) and said it was a accident and that she's sorry! Why should she beg like I don't know what for forgiveness when it was a simple accident? They uninvited her and Timberlake from the Grammy's and only would have had them back when they would have apologized once again during the Grammy's! She rightfully declined, unlike Timberlake! As she already had apologized! midnightmover said: lowkey said: there is no reason for nobody to try and convince you because you wont even accept what is a fact..justin timberlake called it a wardrobe malfunction, period. I'm willing to believe that if someone shows me, but even if he did, it doesn't change the fact that he's never repeated the story since, even when he's had opportunities to do so. Why not? And why has Janet only repeated the story a few times. Why is she always so cagey on the subject? I don't even know why I'm still arguing with you anymore! lowkey says it all... You believe what you want believe, and even when someone would show you a soundbite where he says, it's an accident, you still would believe what you want to believe! So whatever! It's just a big waste of time! He's statement says it all! Janet dropped the topic because she got sick and tired of every idiot and their momma talking about that non issue and believing what they want to believe! It was bs from the beginning, which totally got blown out of proportion! And Timberlake is a a coward, that's why he never really took a stand anymore and went to the Grammy's begging for forgiveness and moved on! | |
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ehuffnsd said: agism factors in somewhere too.
yes you got that right... | |
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Najee said: guitarslinger44 said: As for the Janet/Justin thing, there's no comparison to the Superbowl fiasco and that Dick In A Box skit. Justin never showed any dick, and the skit was on at 12:30 am. Janet's titty came out AT THE SUPERBOWL on PRIME TIME. With BILLIONS of people watching. The reason Janet got the heat over it is because it was her titty.
1.) Most people did NOT see Janet Jackson's exposed breast on television, so once again it's a case of revising a story. Cameras flashed away from the scene as it happened, and at the most SOME people saw less than one second of an exposed breast. 2.) Second, Timberlake WAS THE PERSON ALSO IN THE SUPER BOWL EVENT AND HE WAS THE ONE WHO RIPPED OFF THE PIECE OF CLOTHING THAT EXPOSED HER BREAST. But Timberlake's name is never mentioned or associated with the event in any manner (in fact, it's been revised by the majority white media that some people who didn't even see the event think Timberlake wasn't on the stage at all or he was simply standing there and Jackson ripped off the clothing itself). 3.) I don't know about you, but I didn't realize you could say "dick" without the censorship -- but apparently Timberlake can. Not to mention he can do it in a stereotypical portrayal of a music and style associated with 1990s soul music artists. 4.) Four years later, Jackson's name is still brought up with this event to the point it has overshadowed her career. Timberlake is NEVER associated with the event and it's never brought up in reference to him. At least that's the way it is with the white media (as seen by a recent interview she and Tyler Perry did with a Sacramento TV station for the promotion of "Why Did I Get Married?") But I feel we all get the point -- white society was so horrified of the thought of THINKING a bare black breast was shown on TV that it has a mini-O.J. Simpson obsession over it while the person (who is white) who actually exposed the breast is NEVER associated with it. Call it what it is -- a double standard based on racial prejudice. 1.We live in a puritanical country where even the THOUGHT of a breast is enough to send some people packin'. Plus, people should be able to watch the Super Bowl without having to worry about shielding their kids' eyes from potential titties. It's prime time for god's sake. 2.Timberlake apologized. As he's had events to overshadow the Super Bowl incident and Janet hasn't, it's the one thing people ask her about. If she's release an album worth a shit rather than taking her clothes off all the time, then she'd be able to move past it too. 3.The SNL skit WAS censored on tv. NBC only released the uncensored version to the net. And there were white guys who had that style too. Remember Color Me Badd? If anything, he was slagging them. 4.Again, if Janet would release good music and do something to overshadow the super bowl incident, then she'd stop getting asked about it. Again, I said, if it had been Justin's dick that was out, then HE would be the one getting fired on. But it wasn't. It was Janet's breast, even if for a half a second, in a place where it shouldn't have been. I have no sympathy for either of them because doing shit like that when you KNOW billions of people are watching this event with their KIDS is just poor judgement now matter who you are. Especially when you know how the US is. And if you can tell me unequivocally, that you'd let your kids watch something that had Janet's tits all over it, then I guess that's the end of our debate. | |
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Patti does not scream or yell on that song. Her performance is great and you can sit around all day debating if it is
racism or prejudice  WTF difference it makes I don’t know because it is really late in the day for any of this bullshit to be still be going on.
----- Empress said: sosgemini said: 
i love when she goes off on a rant about the failure of her version...its true too. not that would call it racism...prejudiced probably...but not racism. True SOS! I also think that some people don't like the way Patti yells at times. Personally, I'm a fan but many arent simply because of the way she screeches. By the way, check out the review of Celine's new album on Rolling Stone  | |
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Am I the only one who hates that song,no matter who is singing it?  | |
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SoulAlive said: Am I the only one who hates that song,no matter who is singing it?
U are NOT alone.  | |
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PatrickS77 said: Unlike you, she's got some pride left! She issued a statement and went on Access Hollywood (or was it Entertainment tonight) and said it was a accident and that she's sorry! Why should she beg like I don't know what for forgiveness when it was a simple accident? It's not about begging for forgiveness, it's about fighting a good fight, which she did not do. This was the biggest event of her career. A HUGE event that obviously threatened to overshadow everything she'd ever done. Therefore proving it was an accident was of primary importance. If she could convince people of that, it would defuse the situation. It could even turn a negative into a positive because people would be sympathetic if they were sure it was unintentional. So with that in mind, don't you think it beggars belief that she has so rarely repeated the story? Don't you think her management would have thought of calling up the costume designer to go on TV and explain what went wrong? Don't you think the choreographer would have come out to back up the story? A press conference with the choreographer, costume designer and Janet herself would be the most logical move. This is just plain old common sense. Don't you think someone in Janet's team would've thought of that? The reason they did none of these things is obvious. It was no accident and they all knew it. And as for Justin, if he did personally say it was a waldrobe malfunction, the fact is he must have only said it once, and the other times he had the opportunity to repeat that story he didn't. Even if he wasn't asked directly if it was an accident, it's just natural that whilst speaking about this subject you would mention that it was an accident, if that's what it was. Maybe you might describe what went through your mind when it actually happened, like "When it ripped off completely I thought "Oh shit!"" or something like that. Neither of them have given any such anecdotal detail that would make their story more believable. When people are so evasive on a subject it usually means they have something to hide. And when other people are so blind that they can't see that, it usually means they are being swayed by their own bias. Now I freely admit I'm no Janet fan, but my reasons for thinking this was a publicity stunt are based on objective facts and common sense. I've raised logical points which no-one has had any answers for. That shows this story is a castle built on sand. A castle that got washed away instantly in the eyes of most clear-minded people. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Oh jeez... nice little essay, you don't have any other problems?
LOL, you seriously expect a press conference where the costumedesigner goes on and says: "Justin ripped too hard!" and then goes on and demostrates how he should have ripped?! 
Why dwell on the bullshit longer than neccessary? Janet and Justin both said what they had to say and tried to move on! Either people believe or they don't! Their problem! And usually they believe what they want anyway, regardless of the facts!! Biggest event of her career? It was a naked tit, for christ's sake! I guess nobody thought, that people would be so shallow to still argue and theorize and hold it against her almost 4 years later! And I don't know what Justin said later... I make it a point to not listen or read his interviews... I don't care really what he has to say! Maybe he's a little coward, who distanced himself from the situation and doesn't allow interviewers to ask about it again?! I don't know and I don't care! | |
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PatrickS77 said: Oh jeez... nice little essay, you don't have any other problems?
LOL, you seriously expect a press conference where the costumedesigner goes on and says: "Justin ripped too hard!" and then goes on and demostrates how he should have ripped?!
Why dwell on the bullshit longer than neccessary? Janet and Justin both said what they had to say and tried to move on! Either people believe or they don't! Their problem! And usually they believe what they want anyway, regardless of the facts!! Biggest event of her career? It was a naked tit, for christ's sake! I guess nobody thought, that people would be so shallow to still argue and theorize and hold it against her almost 4 years later! And I don't know what Justin said later... I make it a point to not listen or read his interviews... I don't care really what he has to say! Maybe he's a little coward, who distanced himself from the situation and doesn't allow interviewers to ask about it again?! I don't know and I don't care! As usual, you're just burying your head in the sand and refusing to engage in a serious discussion. You're so in denial that you refuse to even acknowledge what a HUGE event it was in her career at the time. Obviously you're choosing to rewrite history in your own mind so you have a good excuse for Janet not backing up her own story. Sorry, but no matter how ridiculous it was, the fact is Nipplegate was obviously career threatening. So to not back up her explanation with some evidence points to only one logical conclusion. She HAD no evidence because her story was untrue. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Whatever you say... you know it all!
Like Janet, I'm bored of this topic! | |
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Revolution said: Love me some Patti, but she's WAY off track with this nonsense.
Why did Whitney have the LARGEST selling single of all time with I Will Always Love You, but that same song sold nothing for Dolly Parton??? The race card just doesn't go away, does it? How long until black folk stop playing the victims? Playing the race card?...LOL...Funny...The truth is the success of Whitney (who had already white washed her R&B sound in the late '80s)over Parton with "I Will Always Love You" was an abberation...Historically when mainstream white acts cover or release the same song as their black counterparts they have more pop success...Now, because music has become less marginalized and segreated TODAY (music downloading has leveled the playing field..), your point would be well-taken...But back in the early '90s, I witnessed what happend with Dion and Patti...At that time ADULT Middle America needed a face they could more identify with with the commercial rise of hip hop and young R&B...There was no white-washing with Patti's gospel-fueled vocals (which were very subdued on that record, by the way...; But still "black"...lol)...Bringing Whitney into the mix is a bit of a stretch... | |
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murph said: Revolution said: Love me some Patti, but she's WAY off track with this nonsense.
Why did Whitney have the LARGEST selling single of all time with I Will Always Love You, but that same song sold nothing for Dolly Parton??? The race card just doesn't go away, does it? How long until black folk stop playing the victims? Playing the race card?...LOL...Funny...The truth is the success of Whitney (who had already white washed her R&B sound in the late '80s)over Parton with "I Will Always Love You" was an abberation...Historically when mainstream white acts cover or release the same song as their black counterparts they have more pop success...Now, because music has become less marginalized and segreated TODAY (music downloading has leveled the playing field..), your point would be well-taken...But back in the early '90s, I witnessed what happend with Dion and Patti...At that time ADULT Middle America needed a face they could more identify with with the commercial rise of hip hop and young R&B...There was no white-washing with Patti's gospel-fueled vocals (which were very subdued on that record, by the way...; But still "black"...lol)...Bringing Whitney into the mix is a bit of a stretch... I think all superstars are an aberration. Whitney, Celine, Kenny G, Elvis, Michael, Garth Brooks, 50 Cent, Usher. That stuff doesn't just happen to very many people on this planet, talented or not. Patti is a more reasonable example of someone becoming very successful (and nobody can deny she's successful) based on their talents, and not other circumstances. My Legacy
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Harlepolis said: Aside said: oh for crying out loud. she's still crying over If You Asked Me To? it's been 15 years. MOVE ON PATTI!
it has more to do with Celine Dion being a very hot, relatively young artist, and Patti being and old has-been by that point. love the woman to death, but christ, get over it. How's she an old has-been, exactly? She's the MOST relevant artist from her generation nowadays. While everybody over 50 is trying to cater to the chitlin circuit, she's on the other hand is packing sold out big venues. Anyway,,,, Like I said in another board, she ain't putting a new flag anywhere. It took Timbaland and Dr.Dre 17-20 year in the biz and nothing seemed to put them on the mainstream map up untill they worked with Justin & Slim Shady,,,now I don't wanna put the edge on the folks who are scared of the  race card but a spade IS, and will always be a spade. Change the position anyway you like,,,,you still have the same object.
Oh yes, that age factor? Wet bullshit in the summertime  Ain't no such thing, you have Diana Ross and then you have Barbara Streisand(Notice, I picked ol' hags ). Now tell me who's considered more of an institution in the eyes of the mainstream now?
It is what it is, though. And I'm trying as hard as I can to shrug it off even though its starring right @ us STONE DEAD in the eye. WHOOO!!! PREACH!!!  | |
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murph said: Revolution said: Love me some Patti, but she's WAY off track with this nonsense.
Why did Whitney have the LARGEST selling single of all time with I Will Always Love You, but that same song sold nothing for Dolly Parton??? The race card just doesn't go away, does it? How long until black folk stop playing the victims? Playing the race card?...LOL...Funny...The truth is the success of Whitney (who had already white washed her R&B sound in the late '80s)over Parton with "I Will Always Love You" was an abberation...Historically when mainstream white acts cover or release the same song as their black counterparts they have more pop success...Now, because music has become less marginalized and segreated TODAY (music downloading has leveled the playing field..), your point would be well-taken...But back in the early '90s, I witnessed what happend with Dion and Patti...At that time ADULT Middle America needed a face they could more identify with with the commercial rise of hip hop and young R&B...There was no white-washing with Patti's gospel-fueled vocals (which were very subdued on that record, by the way...; But still "black"...lol)...Bringing Whitney into the mix is a bit of a stretch... I agree with most of this. Although I'm reluctant to pin an individual record's failure down to prejudice I can certainly understand that interpretation. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Revolution said:[quote]Love me some Patti, but she's WAY off track with this nonsense.
Why did Whitney have the LARGEST selling single of all time with I Will Always Love You, but that same song sold nothing for Dolly Parton??? quote] Great point there  Dont agree with your last sentence but the part about Whitney being more successful with the song than Dolly is worth noting.[Edited 12/6/07 7:38am] | |
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pattie told the truth..but as usual some will say it isnt true. | |
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