midnightmover said:

Oh please! That's bullshit! Why would she stage an embarrasing situation and then act embarassed? If she wanted to show her breast, then there would have been no reason for her to "act" embarrased? She would have shown her tit loud and proud!

And what positive would she gain from showing her breast, when she "acts" embarrassed, to make everyone believe it was an accident in the first place?? To have people talk about her embarrasing accident?? Think again! I don't think any star would want the whole world to talk about an embarrasing situation!

midnightmover said:

Oh please! That's bullshit! Why would she stage an embarrasing situation and then act embarassed? If she wanted to show her breast, then there would have been no reason for her to "act" embarrased? She would have shown her tit loud and proud!

And what positive would she gain from showing her breast, when she "acts" embarrassed, to make everyone believe it was an accident in the first place?? To have people talk about her embarrasing accident?? Think again! I don't think any star would want the whole world to talk about an embarrasing situation!

It's amazing how the biggest fans can be the least observant. Firstly, Janet's performances have always been filled with contrived acts masquerading as spontaneous occurences. I saw her live in 1995, and there was a moment near the end of "Again" where she shook her head violently and contorted her face as if a sudden, overwhelming emotion had gripped her and she was about to cry and couldn't finish the song. It was something she'd obviously borrowed from her brother's "She's Out Of My Life" routine, but she took it to such shameless levels of fakeness I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You just knew she'd done the exact same act at the exact same point every night in the show. Incredibly, the audience bought it. I didn't. Even though I was a fan I clapped very, very slowly at the end.

In "Whoops Now" there was a moment when a dancer brushed her tit with a feather duster and Janet laughed out loud as if it was unexpected. How much do you wanna bet it was worked up in rehearsal and they did it a dozen other times?

Secondly, you ask what she had to gain. Uhhh, I don't know, maybe....publicity? DUH!! She had a new album coming out. Think about it. Again, I refer you to her brother who she has always followed. Michael would always kick off his albums with a good, old fashioned publicity stunt. He admitted to Diane Sawyer that he planned that unveiling of his statue deliberately to provoke controversy. He said "I wanted everybody's attention" and laughed at how the media had "fallen into my trap". He pulled the same trick by smashing up a car in the "Black Or White" video. Of course he pretended he was completely innocent afterwards, but in actual fact he knew exactly what he was doing. He was trying to "get people talking" and using controversy to do it, then saying "Who? Me?" afterwards. Janet tried to pull the same trick and it blew up in her face spectacularly. The truth is she'd been building up to Nipplegate ever since '93 when she had Rene's hands covering her tits on the janet. album cover. Her "sex sells" philosophy was plain to see from that point on.

midnightmover said:

Oh Jesus... of course that was acting! It was showing (fake) emotion, something most performers do... it was part of the show... that's something different than accidently, embarrasingly exposing a breast!

PatrickS77 said:

No, this was way different to that. I know because I'd never found myself actually disgusted like I was at this. Remember, I was still a fan at the time, so for me to react like that shows how distasteful it was to anyone with sense. I noticed she'd toned it down a lot by the time of the Velvet Rope Tour, so maybe she knew herself it was overblown. Back to the boobs. This girl has always had a thing for her breasts. From the MTV Awards in 1990 where she ripped open her shirt to show us her bra, to the janet. album cover, to her numerous soft porn photo shoots, she's always drawing attention to them. Let me ask you something. Has Justin ever said it was a wardrobe malfunction? If he did, I missed it.

midnightmover said:

Oh Jesus... of course that was acting! It was showing (fake) emotion, something most performers do... it was part of the show... that's something different than accidently, embarrasingly exposing a breast!


Saw the show five times... never saw that though!


Oh, okay... so exposing a breast helps to sell albums! And because Rene had his hands on her tits, almost 10 years earlier and because Michael did similar things, there is no way that it was an accident! Yeah, whatever! Like I said... if she did it deliberately there was no need to hide it!

@Rodya
Yeah, it was much ado about nothing! I watched it, thought "Oh, Janet's boob!", turned of the TV and went to bed! When I read the outrage on the internet the next morning I wondered if I had seen the same thing!
[Edited 12/2/07 13:53pm]

Remember, I was still a fan at the time, so for me to react like that shows how distasteful it was to anyone with sense.

This girl has always had a thing for her breasts. From the MTV Awards in 1990 where she ripped open her shirt to show us her bra, to the janet. album cover, to her numerous soft porn photo shoots, she's always drawing attention to them. Let me ask you something.

Has Justin ever said it was a wardrobe malfunction? If he did, I missed it.

PatrickS77 said:

It's amazing how the biggest fans can be the least observant. Firstly, Janet's performances have always been filled with contrived acts masquerading as spontaneous occurences. I saw her live in 1995, and there was a moment near the end of "Again" where she shook her head violently and contorted her face as if a sudden, overwhelming emotion had gripped her and she was about to cry and couldn't finish the song. It was something she'd obviously borrowed from her brother's "She's Out Of My Life" routine, but she took it to such shameless levels of fakeness I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You just knew she'd done the exact same act at the exact same point every night in the show. Incredibly, the audience bought it. I didn't. Even though I was a fan I clapped very, very slowly at the end. In "Whoops Now" there was a moment when a dancer brushed her tit with a feather duster and Janet laughed out loud as if it was unexpected. How much do you wanna bet it was worked up in rehearsal and they did it a dozen other times?

Secondly, you ask what she had to gain. Uhhh, I don't know, maybe....publicity? DUH!! She had a new album coming out. Think about it. Again, I refer you to her brother who she has always followed. Michael would always kick off his albums with a good, old fashioned publicity stunt. He admitted to Diane Sawyer that he planned that unveiling of his statue deliberately to provoke controversy. He said "I wanted everybody's attention" and laughed at how the media had "fallen into my trap". He pulled the same trick by smashing up a car in the "Black Or White" video. Of course he pretended he was completely innocent afterwards, but in actual fact he knew exactly what he was doing. He was trying to "get people talking" and using controversy to do it, then saying "Who? Me?" afterwards. Janet tried to pull the same trick and it blew up in her face spectacularly. The truth is she'd been building up to Nipplegate ever since '93 when she had Rene's hands covering her tits on the janet. album cover. Her "sex sells" philosophy was plain to see from that point on.
[Edited 12/2/07 13:31pm]

midnightmover said:

Seriously Michael Jackson fans on the forum have so much hatred towards Janet, it's pretty funny, the thing is I truly don't understand why? Throughout her career she has stood by that little freak at times when it could have jeopardised her own.

You all look forward to the hundredth "special" edition of Thriller

midnightmover said:

Well, maybe that was just you?? The others applauded! I saw the Janet tour too and took it for what it was... a show! I'm not sure anyone thought, that she really was overwhelmed by emotion!


Yes, she wanted to show her breast... but not her naked breast! It was supposed to still be covered by some cloth, but Justin ripped that off as well! She never showed her naked breast before (or after)! She went far, but never that far! She was teasing and not bearing it all out!


Of course he said it, immediatly afterwards! Where do you think that phrase came from?

But like lowkey pointed out... that's off topic!

midnightmover said:

your obvious hatred of janet makes it impossible to have an objective discussion about anything concerning her, this thread is about the racist music industry and its double standards and you've managed to turn it into another one of your 'i hate janet rants'. regardless if it was an accident or intentional the reaction towards janet reeked of racism and sexism.

midnightmover said:

Seriously Michael Jackson fans on the forum have so much hatred towards Janet, it's pretty funny, the thing is I truly don't understand why? Throughout her career she has stood by that little freak at times when it could have jeopardised her own.

You all look forward to the hundredth "special" edition of Thriller

lowkey said:

No, I responded to a specific point made by two orgers, regarding the looks of surprise on the faces of Justin and Janet. I didn't bring it up. Others did. I merely responded by pointing out the obvious.
[Edited 12/2/07 16:36pm]

PatrickS77 said:

This is the biggest bullshit. What the hell would be the point of ripping off a bit of fabric just to show another bit of fabric? This was the end of the performance. The climax. What the hell kind of climax would it be to have him rip off something to reveal next to nothing? Why go through all the trouble of designing the outfit and working it all out for something as pointless as just showing another bit of fabric? It makes no sense. Also, don't you think they would have tested the thing a million times to ensure it wouldn't expose too much? That would be a pretty obvious accident to anticipate, don't you think?

And didn't Justin say in the minutes afterwards that they were "giving the public what they wanted". He didn't say anything about "an accident" right afterwards. Why not? I've still never heard him say it was an accident even after four years. I heard him apologise for any offense caused. I've heard him point out the sexism involved in the response, but it seems strange that he hasn't said much about it being an accident. If he did, he must have only said it once. That's bizarre. If it was me, it would be the first thing I said whenever anyone asked me about it. If it really was "an accident" that is.

mancabdriver said:

Thank you for this. The discussion was getting mighty serious until you weighed in with this fantastic piece of comedy. lol, the guy I'm arguing with has an MJ avatar and you think I'm the MJ fan. Dude, I like you. You're a funny guy.

As for the main topic, yeah racism is rife in the industry just as it is in society. A lot of it isn't even racism so much as preferences. Many people are just more comfortable with people that look like them. Eminem spoke about this openly on "White America". If Timberlake was honest he'd do the same. As for Patti's specific example, I think she's tripping. There's such a thing as timing. There's such a thing as ageism. Those things were much more a factor in that instance. It's not like she'd never had a hit before, so what is she saying? The public suddenly noticed she was black and boycotted her? Does that sound as crazy to you as it does to me?
Whilst the success of Amy and Joss shows there is still a double standard out there (as no-one would give a shit about them if they were black), it's a big mistake to put every individual failure down to racism. It's also counter productive as it encourages a victim mentality.

I don't know... to give a moment of a shock! Like false scares in scary movies... you'd have to ask them, it doesn't make more sense to expose the breast and then act like it was an accident!

Timberlake issued his own apology. "I am sorry if anyone was offended by the wardrobe malfunction during the halftime performance at the Super Bowl," he said. "It was not intentional and is regrettable."

"The decision to have a costume reveal at the end of my halftime show performance was made after final rehearsals," Jackson said in a statement.

"MTV was completely unaware of it. It was not my intention that it go as far as it did. I apologize to anyone offended -- including the audience, MTV, CBS and the NFL."

Jackson spokesman Stephen Huvane said the incident "was a malfunction of the wardrobe; it was not intentional. ... He was supposed to pull away the bustier and leave the red-lace bra."

PatrickS77 said:

You're reaching now. You think ripping off fabric to show more fabric would be shocking? Uhhh, no. Baffling maybe. Not shocking. And let me repeat, exposing the breast and saying it was an accident makes perfect sense. It's a publicity stunt! Just like when Michael wrecked the car in "Black Or White" and then feigned innocence afterwards. Or when Jermaine ripped into Michael on "Word To The Badd" and then acted all magnanimous and loving in his interviews afterwards. Self serving hypocrisy is the Jackson way. Janet just didn't expect this stunt to get as out of hand as it did.


Right, so I repeat no-one's ever actually heard Justin say it was an accident. His publicist issued a statement after Janet did, but when he first came off the stage and was asked about the performance he was carefree and smiled, saying they "gave the public what they wanted". He said nothing about a "waldrobe malfunction" until after the shit hit the fan. And even after all these years no-one has heard him personally say it was an accident. A statement issued in the immediate aftermath by his publicist is one thing. But I would have thought by now he would have repeated that explanation, but he never has. What's your explanation for that?

midnightmover said:

i dont think patti was saying the public boycotted her,patti's version was a hit on the r&b charts but she feel that celine's received the mainstream attention that her version didnt get for the simple fact of she is a white girl.of course every individual failure dont involve racism but its not an individual problem its an industry wide thing. there will always be those who slip through and reach a certain level of success, but thats like saying because there were house niggers there were no black people in the fields getting their asses whupped.

midnightmover said:

why should justin say anything about it when people act as if he wasnt even involved? nobody ever asks him about this incident but janet still gets grilled about it damn near 4 years later, whats really good?

lowkey said:

Bullshit. Justin has been asked about it in at least one interview last year and he said NOTHING about it being an accident. He gave a speech about it at an award ceremony a few days after it happened and he said NOTHING about it being an accident. Doesn't that tell you something? Don't you think it would be in his interests to back up Janet's story? What earthly reason could there be for him never actually saying it was an accident? My explanation is simple. Lying doesn't come as naturally to him as it does to Janet. He also knows that millions of sensible people would KNOW he was lying, so he can't bring himself to do it. Before you criticise this explanation I'd ask you to please come up with an alternative one. Why has Justin never directly said it was an accident? Over to you.

midnightmover said:

i saw the 1 interview where justin was asked about it and it was never asked if it was intentional or an accident, the interviewer asked justin if he felt he threw janet under the bus by not speaking up more and justin agreed he could have said more, also justin agreeing to apologize at the grammys to get back in their good graces says more about him being a coward then it does about his 'honesty'.like i've already said justin has no reason to speak on the incident one way or another simply because nobody asks him about it, also why would justin jeopardize his good standings with mtv, the grammys,clear channel and whoever else felt the effects from the fcc by stating it was an accident when they all have basically accused janet of purposely trying to destroy the morals of america by showing a black breast on national tv?

lowkey said:

You have BLATANTLY dodged the question. You just admitted he HAS spoken about the issue, but you still have been unable to explain why he made NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of it being "an accident". If it was "an accident", don't you think it would be one of the first things he'd say when asked about it? Please do not respond to this post if you just intend to dodge the question again.

"The decision to have a costume reveal at the end of my halftime show performance was made after final rehearsals," Jackson said in a statement

Here's another piece of bullshit that none of you seem to have picked up on. Read the above carefully. They are saying they only decided to rip off a bit of her costume after the final rehearsal. That means they would have had to spontaneously designed a costume with velcro and everything at the last minute. Sorry but that reeks of bullshit. If they didn't perform the stunt at the final rehearsals a far more realistic explanation is because they knew exactly what they were going to do in advance and if they did it at the rehearsal then...

1) CBS and the NFL would tell them it was unacceptable, and....

2) They wouldn't be able to claim later that it was an accident.

But to seriously ask us to believe they just got the idea at the last minute and suddenly had a ripable brassiere made up. Sorry, but that's a joke. It's obvious they thought they were gonna be clever and sneak this little stunt past the NFL. I don't blame Justin for walking away from that kind of sleaziness. His biggest mistake was allowing himself to get roped into it in the first place. She used him. He was just a pawn in her game. That makes it all the more funny that she went down for it, and he didn't.

midnightmover said:

how did i dodge the question, i think my response was in english. when we pointed out that justin did admit it was an accident you dismissed it saying..well that was his publicist,when i clearly saw justin with my own eyes call it a wardrobe malfunction...but you claim well that was after it blew up. then when i pointed out how justin had plenty of reasons not to speak on it years later(i mean be for real why in hell would he bring it up if he got away from the incident clear and free of any damage?).i never said justin has spoken about the issue you did, i dont call what was asked of him on the interview really speaking on it..all he said was- yes i probably could have said more and stood up for janet...if it was planned what could he have said to help? like i said before if it was planned or not it dont change the double standard.you can spin the situation to fit your opinions all you want but the fact is justin DID call it a wardrobe malfunction,and once it was clear janet was gonna be crucified for the bullshit justin had every reason to distant himself from her and it.

midnightmover said:

so when is the next 'i hate janet' rally?