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PrintableAside said: totaldiva said: Remember, in the music industry, the term crossover does not pertain to white artist.
Plenty of white country artists who have had pop hits are called "crossovers". It is not the same. "Crossover" is a term mostly used for minority artist who happen to become sucessful in the majority. Artist like Kelly Price, and Phyliss Hymen were powerhouse vocalist whom are very popular in the Black community, but the average middle American never heard of. Yes, many country artist have had success in the top pop charts, but the race represents the majority. With the exception of charlie Pride, when was the last time you saw a Black artist on the country charts (Nelly's duet does not count). I like Amy Winehouse(despite her personal issues),Joss Stone, and Xtina(who can sing rings around all of them), but the fact is that aa White artist like Justin Timberlake(who probably would be in the dumps without the likes of Pharell or timberland) will outsell artist like Omarion, Chris Brown and others singing the same type of music(with the same producers). This goes as far back as Pat Boone who had mre success ripping off Little Richard to Elvis presley whos biggest hit was a remake of a Big Momma Thorton song. What the mainstream will grasp is Black artist who act like stereotypes like thugs and pimp rappers. And Emenem has the biggest selling rap album in history. Case closed. "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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But there again the bigger issue is missed, and Patti is making points but not hitting the bigger beast in the room, as someone once said "who is americas biggest enemy...answer america" well that is true here too. Patti should be asking why are so many negative things about blacks the only thing that is promoted especially by Black media, i wanna hear Patti call out Vibe magazine. Someone made this point recently about Al Sharpton and how come he seems to be there when a white cop shots a black person but doesnt speak out on the daily senseless black on black crime, i just read an article about this 24 year old who killed his younger brother and his mother in the bronx and then chopped them up and threw the bodies in the river, and im thinking arent you outraged Al, wheres the march to stop the black on black crimes that go on every second.
So Patti its a great statement and a true one but realize the bigger picture., "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: But there again the bigger issue is missed, and Patti is making points but not hitting the bigger beast in the room, as someone once said "who is americas biggest enemy...answer america" well that is true here too. Patti should be asking why are so many negative things about blacks the only thing that is promoted especially by Black media, i wanna hear Patti call out Vibe magazine. Someone made this point recently about Al Sharpton and how come he seems to be there when a white cop shots a black person but doesnt speak out on the daily senseless black on black crime, i just read an article about this 24 year old who killed his younger brother and his mother in the bronx and then chopped them up and threw the bodies in the river, and im thinking arent you outraged Al, wheres the march to stop the black on black crimes that go on every second.
So Patti its a great statement and a true one but realize the bigger picture., I agree, but we cannot control what the media puts out. Let's reverse it. We have heard of all the missing White women in this country from Natalie Holloway, Stacy Peterson, and many others, but rarely does the media report, let alone hold entire shows on the many Black women who are missing. Again, the minority is less important. "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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totaldiva said: Aside said: Plenty of white country artists who have had pop hits are called "crossovers". It is not the same. "Crossover" is a term mostly used for minority artist who happen to become sucessful in the majority. Artist like Kelly Price, and Phyliss Hymen were powerhouse vocalist whom are very popular in the Black community, but the average middle American never heard of. Yes, many country artist have had success in the top pop charts, but the race represents the majority. With the exception of charlie Pride, when was the last time you saw a Black artist on the country charts (Nelly's duet does not count). I like Amy Winehouse(despite her personal issues),Joss Stone, and Xtina(who can sing rings around all of them), but the fact is that aa White artist like Justin Timberlake(who probably would be in the dumps without the likes of Pharell or timberland) will outsell artist like Omarion, Chris Brown and others singing the same type of music(with the same producers). This goes as far back as Pat Boone who had mre success ripping off Little Richard to Elvis presley whos biggest hit was a remake of a Big Momma Thorton song. What the mainstream will grasp is Black artist who act like stereotypes like thugs and pimp rappers. And Emenem has the biggest selling rap album in history. Case closed. Good points however lets also remember that 80% of rap music is bought by White Kids, also i often worry about this whole Black/White issue because it seems that things where easier and less about race at least music wise way back. I mean take Hall and Oates and Elton John, these two had number 1 rb songs, stevie and James were getting "white" radio play, had they come out today neither would get this, things are so consolidated today that no one can just be themselves you have to be the "white" this or the "black" that. Back in the day Arif Mardin would produce for the likes of the Bee Gees,Norah Jones,Chaka Khan,Hall and Oates and all were different in style and race. Also true about Justin and Omarion and Timbland but lets also look at the fact that these 2 successful "black" producers have done nothing to preserve true soul music, actually they have done the opposite. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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theAudience said: Empress said: I also think that some people don't like the way Patti yells at times. Personally, I'm a fan but many arent simply because of the way she screeches.
Interesting point.  Yet it appears that some of those same folks give  Guess they're not yelling/screaming/screeching when they're one of your pet artists. 
tA Teena don't need no pass she cuz was always "in da 'hood". She grew up in LA among blacks and lived in the music. I don't know about Celine, or even Patti's abilities, but Teena plays guitar and piano and has had a hand in her compositions. Matter-of-fact, she was a Motown admin staffer and song jobber before getting her solo contract. Like Patti, Teena's albums were bonafide hits on r&b radio and both can point to having funk roots.   
Personally, Celine is a heavy load to bear because I don't get into pop artists like Whitney or Karen Carpenter or Barbara Streisand. [Edited 11/28/07 22:02pm] test | |
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PFunkjazz said: theAudience said: Interesting point. Yet it appears that some of those same folks give Guess they're not yelling/screaming/screeching when they're one of your pet artists.
tA Teena don't need no pass she cuz was always "in da 'hood". She grew up in LA among blacks and lived in the music. I don't know about Celine, or even Patti's abilities, but Teena plays guitar and piano and has had a hand in her compositions. Matter-of-fact, she was a Motown admin staffer and song jobber before getting her solo contract. Like Patti, Teena's albums were bonafide hits on r&b radio and both can point to having funk roots.
Personally, Celine is a heavy load to bear because I don't get into pop artists like Whitney or Karen Carpenter or Barbara Streisand. [Edited 11/28/07 22:02pm] And Hall and Oates has more SOUL than the entire RB chart right now put together and they need no PASS. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: totaldiva said: It is not the same. "Crossover" is a term mostly used for minority artist who happen to become sucessful in the majority. Artist like Kelly Price, and Phyliss Hymen were powerhouse vocalist whom are very popular in the Black community, but the average middle American never heard of. Yes, many country artist have had success in the top pop charts, but the race represents the majority. With the exception of charlie Pride, when was the last time you saw a Black artist on the country charts (Nelly's duet does not count). I like Amy Winehouse(despite her personal issues),Joss Stone, and Xtina(who can sing rings around all of them), but the fact is that aa White artist like Justin Timberlake(who probably would be in the dumps without the likes of Pharell or timberland) will outsell artist like Omarion, Chris Brown and others singing the same type of music(with the same producers). This goes as far back as Pat Boone who had mre success ripping off Little Richard to Elvis presley whos biggest hit was a remake of a Big Momma Thorton song. What the mainstream will grasp is Black artist who act like stereotypes like thugs and pimp rappers. And Emenem has the biggest selling rap album in history. Case closed. Good points however lets also remember that 80% of rap music is bought by White Kids, also i often worry about this whole Black/White issue because it seems that things where easier and less about race at least music wise way back. I mean take Hall and Oates and Elton John, these two had number 1 rb songs, stevie and James were getting "white" radio play, had they come out today neither would get this, things are so consolidated today that no one can just be themselves you have to be the "white" this or the "black" that. Back in the day Arif Mardin would produce for the likes of the Bee Gees,Norah Jones,Chaka Khan,Hall and Oates and all were different in style and race. Also true about Justin and Omarion and Timbland but lets also look at the fact that these 2 successful "black" producers have done nothing to preserve true soul music, actually they have done the opposite. I would never expect you to fully understand if you are not a person of color. The majority of rap is sold to white kids because first, it's rebellion music like rock and roll in the 50's(which by the way, was called jungle music-think about it), and it gives some kids a view into what they think is Black culture. This is why ganstaz like 50 cent will outsell rappers like lupe Fiasco. It is very typical of someone not of color to throw up other issues in the Black community that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. An extremely Bill O'riely type tactic. "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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lastdecember said: And Hall and Oates has more SOUL than the entire RB chart right now put together and they need no PASS. Yea they got the exact same kind of credentials as Teena, but on the East Coast Philly tip. test | |
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Revolution said: Love me some Patti, but she's WAY off track with this nonsense.
Why did Whitney have the LARGEST selling single of all time with I Will Always Love You, but that same song sold nothing for Dolly Parton??? The race card just doesn't go away, does it? How long until black folk stop playing the victims? Because Shitney came through the "white door" ever since her very first album. She had already been the safe little goodie two shoes cheerleader prom queen barbi doll girl next door for years. White people LOVED her, as well as parents, great grandparents, school teachers, principals, and any other older authority figure. That little goodie two shoes cookie didn't have an ounce of rhythm in her body. She was the damn black Mary Poppins of the 1980s. I somewhat agree with Patti LaBelle's statement about racism being the reason for Celine Dion selling more with her song. Patti's original version was just as dull and adult contemporary sounding as anything Celine has put out. However, Patti LaBelle still had not been totally forgotten as being the one that could throwdown with jams like "Lady Marmalade" either. She also had previous R&B only hits on black radio. Pop radio, especially adult contemporary radio, would much rather prefer a 100% full and complete sellout from the beginning of their career. Had she been a squeaky clean little goodie two shoes since her very first album like Shitney Ass Houston, she probably could have been just as successful on the pop/adult contemporary charts. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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When Whitney scored that huge hit with Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, I'm sure Dolly was thinking just like Patty, but we should remember that all these songs were remakes, and that these songs were sung as well as the original artists sang them, and when that happens it seems as though its like making something thats familiar fresh and new again, thereby becoming popular.... instant recipe for hit. | |
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totaldiva said:
Remember one thing about Whitney, when Clive Davis took her under his wing, he let it be very know tha he wanted a pop artist. During many of Whiney's recordings he made her hold back her voice because he didn't want her to sound too gospel aka Black. When she first hit the scene, Whitney was not promoted to r and b radio choosing (or Clive's choosing) for her to be marketed and interviewed by pop aka White radio. Because she is Black, she automatically was played on Black stations. Exactly. And she sure as hell didn't belong on black radio, especially with what was on black radio at the time, which was funk. They should have sent little miss goodie two shoes music straight to the adult contemporary stations where it belonged and not even bothered with the R&B stations. Had they done that, I wouldn't have any problem with her because she couldn't have done any damage to future music. Does anyone remember her being booed at the Soul Train Awards years back because she was considered a sellout?
I remember it very well and I was having a damn orgasm at the time.  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Because Shitney came through the "white door" ever since her very first album. She had already been the safe little goodie two shoes cheerleader prom queen barbi doll girl next door for years. White people LOVED her, as well as parents, great grandparents, school teachers, principals, and any other older authority figure. That little goodie two shoes cookie didn't have an ounce of rhythm in her body. She was the damn black Mary Poppins of the 1980s. I somewhat agree with Patti LaBelle's statement about racism being the reason for Celine Dion selling more with her song. Patti's original version was just as dull and adult contemporary sounding as anything Celine has put out. However, Patti LaBelle still had not been totally forgotten as being the one that could throwdown with jams like "Lady Marmalade" either. She also had previous R&B only hits on black radio. Pop radio, especially adult contemporary radio, would much rather prefer a 100% full and complete sellout from the beginning of their career. Had she been a squeaky clean little goodie two shoes since her very first album like Shitney Ass Houston, she probably could have been just as successful on the pop/adult contemporary charts. Pretty much. Patti had too much soul to be given an "All the Man I Need" or "Saving All My Love" because she didn't have the crossover image. Clive knew what he was doing when he gave it to Whitney. | |
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paintedlady said: When Whitney scored that huge hit with Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, I'm sure Dolly was thinking just like Patty, but we should remember that all these songs were remakes, and that these songs were sung as well as the original artists sang them, and when that happens it seems as though its like making something thats familiar fresh and new again, thereby becoming popular.... instant recipe for hit.
I really doubt Dolly was crying since as the songwriter, her bank account tripled. Whitney paid for many of Dolly's nips and tucks. Try again. "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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totaldiva said: paintedlady said: When Whitney scored that huge hit with Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, I'm sure Dolly was thinking just like Patty, but we should remember that all these songs were remakes, and that these songs were sung as well as the original artists sang them, and when that happens it seems as though its like making something thats familiar fresh and new again, thereby becoming popular.... instant recipe for hit.
I really doubt Dolly was crying since as the songwriter, her bank account tripled. Whitney paid for many of Dolly's nips and tucks. Try again. Fuck the nips and tucks, it filled Dolly's coffers so well, she ditched country music and made some of the best bluegrass music thats been made in the last 15 yrs. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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Timmy84 said: vainandy said: Because Shitney came through the "white door" ever since her very first album. She had already been the safe little goodie two shoes cheerleader prom queen barbi doll girl next door for years. White people LOVED her, as well as parents, great grandparents, school teachers, principals, and any other older authority figure. That little goodie two shoes cookie didn't have an ounce of rhythm in her body. She was the damn black Mary Poppins of the 1980s. I somewhat agree with Patti LaBelle's statement about racism being the reason for Celine Dion selling more with her song. Patti's original version was just as dull and adult contemporary sounding as anything Celine has put out. However, Patti LaBelle still had not been totally forgotten as being the one that could throwdown with jams like "Lady Marmalade" either. She also had previous R&B only hits on black radio. Pop radio, especially adult contemporary radio, would much rather prefer a 100% full and complete sellout from the beginning of their career. Had she been a squeaky clean little goodie two shoes since her very first album like Shitney Ass Houston, she probably could have been just as successful on the pop/adult contemporary charts. Pretty much. Patti had too much soul to be given an "All the Man I Need" or "Saving All My Love" because she didn't have the crossover image. Clive knew what he was doing when he gave it to Whitney. Patti had a crossover pop hit with "New Attitude" (a song I never cared too much for) but she was rocking the wild hair. That wild hair isn't "safe". Shitney came out from the door singing, looking, and acting like a safe little goodie two shoes. She could not only appeal to white people, but to their parents and grandparents as well. A whole lot of other artists followed her safe parent friendly act in the late 1980s. Oh Lord, I'm getting absolutely sick just thinking about that little tired ass, pom pom toting, holding her school books to her breast, prom dress wearing, bow in the weave wearing, stiff chicken legged..... Andy is a four letter word. | |
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totaldiva said: paintedlady said: When Whitney scored that huge hit with Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, I'm sure Dolly was thinking just like Patty, but we should remember that all these songs were remakes, and that these songs were sung as well as the original artists sang them, and when that happens it seems as though its like making something thats familiar fresh and new again, thereby becoming popular.... instant recipe for hit.
I really doubt Dolly was crying since as the songwriter, her bank account tripled. Whitney paid for many of Dolly's nips and tucks. Try again. As soon as Whitney started to receive all those accolades (Grammy's n' such), Dolly was feeling jilted, Whitney mentioned in an article that she was glad she sang the shit outta that song 'cause Dolly didn't want her to sing her song... its not always about the cash sweetie... notoriety can also be a factor as well, and Dolly hated all the love Whitney got for the way she sang that song. spell edit [Edited 11/28/07 23:07pm] | |
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vainandy said: Patti had a crossover pop hit with "New Attitude" (a song I never cared too much for) but she was rocking the wild hair. That wild hair isn't "safe". Shitney came out from the door singing, looking, and acting like a safe little goodie two shoes. She could not only appeal to white people, but to their parents and grandparents as well. A whole lot of other artists followed her safe parent friendly act in the late 1980s. Oh Lord, I'm getting absolutely sick just thinking about that little tired ass, pom pom toting, holding her school books to her breast, prom dress wearing, bow in the weave wearing, stiff chicken legged..... Well, damn... | |
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paintedlady said: totaldiva said: I really doubt Dolly was crying since as the songwriter, her bank account tripled. Whitney paid for many of Dolly's nips and tucks. Try again. As soon as Whitney started to receive all those accolades (Grammy's n' such), Dolly was feeling jilted, Whitney mentioned in an article that she was glad she sang the shit outta that song 'cause Dolly didn't want her to sing her song... its not always about the cash sweetie... notoriety can also be a factor as well, and Dolly hated all the love Whitney got for the way she sang that song. spell edit [Edited 11/28/07 23:07pm] Dolly Parton is looked at as an American Institution, whereas Whitney, despite her accoladesm is viewed as no more than a crackhead. I doubt Dolly is crying. Again, a person who is not of color will never totally understand that racism affects many parts of this country including the music industry. I dont care how you try to slice it, dice it, hurt your brain trying to find 1 example to prove it wrong, it is what it is. Next thing you are going to say is "I have Black friends". "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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paintedlady said: totaldiva said: I really doubt Dolly was crying since as the songwriter, her bank account tripled. Whitney paid for many of Dolly's nips and tucks. Try again. As soon as Whitney started to receive all those accolades (Grammy's n' such), Dolly was feeling jilted, Whitney mentioned in an article that she was glad she sang the shit outta that song 'cause Dolly didn't want her to sing her song... its not always about the cash sweetie... notoriety can also be a factor as well, and Dolly hated all the love Whitney got for the way she sang that song. spell edit [Edited 11/28/07 23:07pm] K I'm a pretty big Dolly fan and I've never heard or seen anywhere of Dolly being upset bout Whitney covering the song, so I would like some references or links please. Usually when Dolly was asked bout the Whitney cover Dolly would just make a comment bout all the money Whitney made her and how glad she was for that. Personally I think Whitney's version totally destroys the meaning of the lyrics with her over the top aim for the rafters styling. Dolly's version is much more heartfelt and sincere in its original form. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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lazycrockett said: paintedlady said: As soon as Whitney started to receive all those accolades (Grammy's n' such), Dolly was feeling jilted, Whitney mentioned in an article that she was glad she sang the shit outta that song 'cause Dolly didn't want her to sing her song... its not always about the cash sweetie... notoriety can also be a factor as well, and Dolly hated all the love Whitney got for the way she sang that song. spell edit [Edited 11/28/07 23:07pm] K I'm a pretty big Dolly fan and I've never heard or seen anywhere of Dolly being upset bout Whitney covering the song, so I would like some references or links please. Usually when Dolly was asked bout the Whitney cover Dolly would just make a comment bout all the money Whitney made her and how glad she was for that. Personally I think Whitney's version totally destroys the meaning of the lyrics with her over the top aim for the rafters styling. Dolly's version is much more heartfelt and sincere in its original form. Looking it up now... But I do remember Whitney saying that on that reality show she had when she was married to Bobby.....I'll get back to you on this. | |
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i like celine's version better, call me racist [Edited 12/1/07 21:30pm] | |
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paintedlady said: lazycrockett said: K I'm a pretty big Dolly fan and I've never heard or seen anywhere of Dolly being upset bout Whitney covering the song, so I would like some references or links please. Usually when Dolly was asked bout the Whitney cover Dolly would just make a comment bout all the money Whitney made her and how glad she was for that. Personally I think Whitney's version totally destroys the meaning of the lyrics with her over the top aim for the rafters styling. Dolly's version is much more heartfelt and sincere in its original form. Looking it up now... But I do remember Whitney saying that on that reality show she had when she was married to Bobby.....I'll get back to you on this. If you're going to start quoting cracked out Whitney don't bother. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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. [Edited 12/1/07 21:30pm] | |
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paintedlady said: lazycrockett said: K I'm a pretty big Dolly fan and I've never heard or seen anywhere of Dolly being upset bout Whitney covering the song, so I would like some references or links please. Usually when Dolly was asked bout the Whitney cover Dolly would just make a comment bout all the money Whitney made her and how glad she was for that. Personally I think Whitney's version totally destroys the meaning of the lyrics with her over the top aim for the rafters styling. Dolly's version is much more heartfelt and sincere in its original form. Looking it up now... But I do remember Whitney saying that on that reality show she had when she was married to Bobby.....I'll get back to you on this. Everyone is breaking their necks trying to find one example to validate their case, it does not change the fact that racism has existed in the music industry for many years. For every Michael Jackson, Prince, Janet, Whitney, there are triple of artist who has felt the sting of not being White. While you are looking up the Whitney/Dolly issue, look up Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Big Momma Thortan, Phyllis Hymen, the list goes on. Find out exactly why Angie Stone left Clive Davis record label. Trying to sweep it under a rug with an irrevelant example does not change the issue. With that, I am going to bed. Racial issues is a topic that will be debated forever unless there is a real change. "POOR IS THE MAN WHO'S PLEASURES DEPEND ON THE PERMISSION OF ANOTHER" Madonna
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totaldiva said: paintedlady said: Looking it up now... But I do remember Whitney saying that on that reality show she had when she was married to Bobby.....I'll get back to you on this. Everyone is breaking their necks trying to find one example to validate their case, it does not change the fact that racism has existed in the music industry for many years. For every Michael Jackson, Prince, Janet, Whitney, there are triple of artist who has felt the sting of not being White. While you are looking up the Whitney/Dolly issue, look up Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Big Momma Thortan, Phyllis Hymen, the list goes on. Find out exactly why Angie Stone left Clive Davis record label. Trying to sweep it under a rug with an irrevelant example does not change the issue. With that, I am going to bed. Racial issues is a topic that will be debated forever unless there is a real change. Never said racism doesn't exist, I stated that Celine had a hit because it was a remake and artist like Patty really can't really blame racial preference on the success of that single. We all know that Patty got a lot more love once she was sang with the likes of Micheal McDonald. She would have sounded more accurate if she cited ageism as a factor. BTW lazycrcockett, looked around and it was only rumors... guess I saw that in the Enquirer or something  | |
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with all this talk of dolly parton on this thread i just had to post this link of patti and dolly doing up some gospel
http://www.youtube.com/wa...YIunE__1Fw [Edited 11/28/07 23:50pm] | |
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RockAbilly said: with all this talk of dolly parton on this thread i just had to post this link of patti and dolly doing up some gospel
http://www.youtube.com/wa...YIunE__1Fw [Edited 11/28/07 23:50pm] DANG! they like their puffy shoulders don't they | |
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paintedlady said: When Whitney scored that huge hit with Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, I'm sure Dolly was thinking just like Patty, but we should remember that all these songs were remakes, and that these songs were sung as well as the original artists sang them, and when that happens it seems as though its like making something thats familiar fresh and new again, thereby becoming popular.... instant recipe for hit.
HELL TO THE NAW!!!!! DOLLY AIN'T MAD.....IF DOLLY STILL HAS HER PUBLISHING (AND I BET SHE DOES), THEN WITH ALL THOSE "GA-ZILLION" COPIES WHITNEY SOLD, DOLLY CAN BUY BOOBS 4 HER GRANDKIDS' GRANDKIDS!!!!!  | |
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I REMEMBER WHEN I HEARD THAT CELINE DID A RE-MAKE OF THIS.....I SAID TO MYSELF "UH-OH!!!! MILLION SELLER". AND IT WAS!!!!! NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM PATTI AT ALL CUZ THAT'S WHAT I GREW UP ON- BUT MOST WHITE FOLKS ARE GON' GET BUSY TO A CELINE DION MIXTAPE, NOT PATTI LA BELLE!!!!!
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I hate this dreary song,no matter who is singing it | |
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