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PrintableVoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: Where not talking about me, im talking about those with the power to take artists down, the crap who write for magazines and things like that. I never hear a headline say "so and so's last album, because universal sucks" you think a magazine would print that? no they put all the blame on the artist. Outside of the tabloids, just how much talk is there about projects bombing? Barely any. Magazines are there to sell/report on the product, and rarely savage it. Youre kidding right? Well lets see we have Jim Farber a writer here in NYC who tells you twice a week whos not selling, but not once does he print anything about a label whos promoting or not promoting. All he will tell you is SEAL sold 12,000 this week which shows where his career is at, things like that. And of course Billboard which features articles like this and then every magazine from Rolling Stone to Blender. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: Outside of the tabloids, just how much talk is there about projects bombing? Barely any. Magazines are there to sell/report on the product, and rarely savage it. Youre kidding right? Well lets see we have Jim Farber a writer here in NYC who tells you twice a week whos not selling, but not once does he print anything about a label whos promoting or not promoting. All he will tell you is SEAL sold 12,000 this week which shows where his career is at, things like that. And of course Billboard which features articles like this and then every magazine from Rolling Stone to Blender. Does Jim actually say "Seal is responsible for this"? No. He just says his career's in the shitter (which is true). And yeah, they're going to report on sales numbers in Billboard - that's what the fucking magazine is there for. | |
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VoicesCarry said:[quote] lastdecember said:  Yeah, and by that logic 20 Y.O. and Glitter should have had every single fucking track released as a single. 
Give me a fuckin' BREAK. As for Britney, what can i tell you, if we all knew how "un-professional" 90% of these artists are.
Uh huh. [Edited 11/26/07 12:25pm] Ok which is why Mariah and Janet both got dumped from their labels right after those records, and it wasnt because their deals were up. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Advertising can only do so much to promote an album. But what really gets people's attention is when these folks perform on TV or do a tour. Many times I am not even aware someone has come out with a new album until I see they are coming in concert or see them doing an interview on TV. I know I know, if I really liked the artist, I would follow their moves and know when a new disc comes out. But that is not always the case for my non-favorites. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: Uh huh. [Edited 11/26/07 12:25pm] Ok which is why Mariah and Janet both got dumped from their labels right after those records, and it wasnt because their deals were up. Janet's contract was up. Labels had been asking her why she was still with Virgin ever since Richard Branson left. Check your facts. Thanks. | |
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VoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: Youre kidding right? Well lets see we have Jim Farber a writer here in NYC who tells you twice a week whos not selling, but not once does he print anything about a label whos promoting or not promoting. All he will tell you is SEAL sold 12,000 this week which shows where his career is at, things like that. And of course Billboard which features articles like this and then every magazine from Rolling Stone to Blender. Does Jim actually say "Seal is responsible for this"? No. He just says his career's in the shitter (which is true). And yeah, they're going to report on sales numbers in Billboard - that's what the fucking magazine is there for. Ok so his career is in the shitter, but if he was NOT on a label he would be a genius. You see this is what your missing, i think the fact that he at his age played the game did the work shows more about his waste of a label and radio and video then HIM. If Seal sold 12,000 off his website he would be a fucking king and since he is on a label he's over what a dumb philosphy. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: I dont think it really has to do with "drive" because i consider Prince to have drive and i constantly hear he doesnt "promote" his work. Every artist has "drive" i just think labels pick and choose who will get the promotion. Ryan Admas is another example, he does at least 2-3 albums a year, thats what he's paid to do "make music" why should have to promote, he plays shows, people who like him turn up thats the way it should be.
Some artists are prolific enough that they don't have to promote. John Mayer is one. But can you name someone who does nothing to support their albums yet churns out a lot of them? Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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VoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: Ok which is why Mariah and Janet both got dumped from their labels right after those records, and it wasnt because their deals were up. Janet's contract was up. Labels had been asking her why she was still with Virgin ever since Richard Branson left. Check your facts. Thanks. But Janet was going to re-new way back before it all went downhill, that offer was off the table even before she got near this record. As for Mariah she was dropped/paid off even while she was pushing a third single in the uk. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: Janet's contract was up. Labels had been asking her why she was still with Virgin ever since Richard Branson left. Check your facts. Thanks. But Janet was going to re-new way back before it all went downhill, that offer was off the table even before she got near this record. As for Mariah she was dropped/paid off even while she was pushing a third single in the uk. No, Janet wasn't going to renew. She was never going to renew  She'd been having problems with Virgin's poor promotional support ever since The Velvet Rope. Her original Virgin contract stipulated that she had the right to void her contract if Richard Branson left, but she chose to resign with them after the janet. album. | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: Well would Ryan Adams be booked on Oprah for every album he makes, anyway? Probably not. He isn't a pop star. Don't even know why we're discussing him here, as the kind of promotion you're talking about is only done by a star of a certain commercial stature.
But Britneys pop star days are over, maybe she feels, you made enough off of me from 1998-2004 that now im gonna do a record and let you work for once. Truth is every artist is expected to promote in some capacity whether your Britney or Justin to Van Hunt or Ryan Adams. I doubt that is the case with Britney. She really doesn't seem to even care she put a record out. It wasn't even an event like her others. AND it's her first of new material in a long time. What? Not proud of that? Kylie Minogue's drops in 2 weeks. Trust me it will be a big deal, because she wants it to be. And her energy put behind the album and promotion for it is quite evident and it speaks volumes. It's really a two way street and it takes interest on both parties to make an album sell. Have you ever seen a Madonna record come out with little fan fare? Do you think MJ will let his next album come out without everyone making it into a big deal. Hype sells regardless of where that hype comes from.  Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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lastdecember said: Think about it, thats not their job, thats why labels have promo departments that get paid millions. I hear the argument all the time Britney Spears is lazy because shes not doing anything for her record, or Prince did nothing for "Planet Earth" etc... they are paid to record an album and put out a certain amount of albums that their contracts call for, they arent paid to go on Oprah or make videos (video costs come out of the artists pocket/advances).
Sure its cool if artists do videos and tour and all that stuff, but should they be expected to? [Edited 11/26/07 10:29am] because look what it did for mariah 2005-2006 she was EVERYWHERE.. she came on EVERY show and every award show... she really did an amazing job at that...
so yes britney should have promoted her album... not just for sales.. but for the few fans she has left
and when artist promote their album it sells a lil bit better.. i seriously think if britney really did promote her album it woudl have sold more |
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superspaceboy said: lastdecember said: I dont think it really has to do with "drive" because i consider Prince to have drive and i constantly hear he doesnt "promote" his work. Every artist has "drive" i just think labels pick and choose who will get the promotion. Ryan Admas is another example, he does at least 2-3 albums a year, thats what he's paid to do "make music" why should have to promote, he plays shows, people who like him turn up thats the way it should be.
Some artists are prolific enough that they don't have to promote. John Mayer is one. But can you name someone who does nothing to support their albums yet churns out a lot of them? Ryan Adams he makes Prince look lazy, in terms of doing something he plays shows, but no one considers that promotion anymore, now its about making videos and doing tv shows. Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp averages 1 a year, the thing is most labels dont let you release more than 1 every two years. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Fuck me, you sad bastards really do follow this shit, don't you? “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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lastdecember said: superspaceboy said: Some artists are prolific enough that they don't have to promote. John Mayer is one. But can you name someone who does nothing to support their albums yet churns out a lot of them? Ryan Adams he makes Prince look lazy, in terms of doing something he plays shows, but no one considers that promotion anymore, now its about making videos and doing tv shows. Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp averages 1 a year, the thing is most labels dont let you release more than 1 every two years. For an artist of Ryan Adams's stature, if he's putting on shows and touring, he's fulfilling his promotional obligations. | |
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lastdecember said: PFunkjazz said: You can be real passive and wait for things to come to you, but people who pursue their endeavors beyond a mere paycheck tend to have the most success in life. Yeah but they did their job, recorded the album which is what they are signed to do. I heard someone the other day say "wow that new Seal is bombing" and yet i saw Seal everywhere, even on Rachel Ray, so hes "playing the game" why is blamed for "bombing" why arent people at the label getting their ass kicked for not getting him played. Is it bombing? I didn't even know he had a new one out if it wasn't for y'all here...and I keep a firm ear to the ground for new music. Usually for a Seal Record there is a bigger deal made. IMO, I think the issue that record is having is the same one Duran Duran is having...producer issues. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: And, more importantly, it's much more important for artists who release successful SINGLES to do that sort of promotion. Prince, Pearl Jam and Ryan Adams don't need to bother because they don't need to spin 5 singles from a record in order to keep it afloat on the charts. No one plays them.
But whos's choice is it to release 5 singles? not the artist, plus does anyone have singles anymore? i know they do videos but no one plays them at this point, so really you have a bunch of artists running around promoting nothing, which is why they all tend to become media-stars and nothing to do with music. Yes people do singles still. Just ask Madonna, Gwen Stefani (who has prctically released every song off of both albums as singles). Mika (also released 5 singles) or even George Michael, who makes it a habit of just releasing singles not attatched to albums. Most artists these days (esp ones that have been around for a while) get 3 singles to promote. Many get 1 or 2. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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TotalAlisa said: lastdecember said: Think about it, thats not their job, thats why labels have promo departments that get paid millions. I hear the argument all the time Britney Spears is lazy because shes not doing anything for her record, or Prince did nothing for "Planet Earth" etc... they are paid to record an album and put out a certain amount of albums that their contracts call for, they arent paid to go on Oprah or make videos (video costs come out of the artists pocket/advances).
Sure its cool if artists do videos and tour and all that stuff, but should they be expected to? [Edited 11/26/07 10:29am] because look what it did for mariah 2005-2006 she was EVERYWHERE.. she came on EVERY show and every award show... she really did an amazing job at that...
so yes britney should have promoted her album... not just for sales.. but for the few fans she has left
and when artist promote their album it sells a lil bit better.. i seriously think if britney really did promote her album it woudl have sold more Not true, Mariah got so LUCKY with this album. Ok this how it was, if this record didnt sell MARIAH was gone, this was the make or break record, Def Jam put nothing into this record, because they were losing still off of Charmbracelet. Her deal called for one more album after this but if this one failed than that was the end for her basically. When "Its like that" was released it BOMBED yeah sure it hit Top 20 but as for the lead single IT BOMBED, and i can tell as a witness this album was already on product recalls to vendor, meaing the stores were sitting on tons of it and needed to ship alot back. The break "We Belong Together", that was it, that is really the only reason MARIAH is still there and still in the spotlite, and lets remember Mariah was doing all this same PROMO during all her albums, shes a PROMO JUNKIE, the difference with MIMI was that people that didnt care suddenly cared, "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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superspaceboy said: lastdecember said: But whos's choice is it to release 5 singles? not the artist, plus does anyone have singles anymore? i know they do videos but no one plays them at this point, so really you have a bunch of artists running around promoting nothing, which is why they all tend to become media-stars and nothing to do with music. Yes people do singles still. Just ask Madonna, Gwen Stefani (who has prctically released every song off of both albums as singles). Mika (also released 5 singles) or even George Michael, who makes it a habit of just releasing singles not attatched to albums. Most artists these days (esp ones that have been around for a while) get 3 singles to promote. Many get 1 or 2. In all other markets singles exist, in the USA we have videos not singles. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: When "Its like that" was released it BOMBED yeah sure it hit Top 20 but as for the lead single IT BOMBED
You're the first person I've heard say that. Considering she hadn't hit the Top 40 (or Top 80, really) since 2001, #16 was a substantial accomplishment and people knew it. | |
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superspaceboy said: lastdecember said: Yeah but they did their job, recorded the album which is what they are signed to do. I heard someone the other day say "wow that new Seal is bombing" and yet i saw Seal everywhere, even on Rachel Ray, so hes "playing the game" why is blamed for "bombing" why arent people at the label getting their ass kicked for not getting him played. Is it bombing? I didn't even know he had a new one out if it wasn't for y'all here...and I keep a firm ear to the ground for new music. Usually for a Seal Record there is a bigger deal made. IMO, I think the issue that record is having is the same one Duran Duran is having...producer issues. In industry/label standards its a bomb the same with Duran Duran, to me its Seal's best work and most agree, hes done his job, if the label cant get it played then they failed not him. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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VoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: When "Its like that" was released it BOMBED yeah sure it hit Top 20 but as for the lead single IT BOMBED
You're the first person I've heard say that. Considering she hadn't hit the Top 40 (or Top 80, really) since 2001, #16 was a substantial accomplishment and people knew it. Considering it was the return of JD it was viewed that way, and by Def Jam too, This album was close very close to being written off, mainly because your first single is what people go by. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: You're the first person I've heard say that. Considering she hadn't hit the Top 40 (or Top 80, really) since 2001, #16 was a substantial accomplishment and people knew it. Considering it was the return of JD it was viewed that way, and by Def Jam too, This album was close very close to being written off, mainly because your first single is what people go by. I disagree that it was viewed that way. The strategy was to put something out there that was going to get her played on the radio again, so they hit with a more urban track. If they'd put a typical Mariah ballad out there as a first single it might have flopped outright like Through The Rain did. | |
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lastdecember said: superspaceboy said: Some artists are prolific enough that they don't have to promote. John Mayer is one. But can you name someone who does nothing to support their albums yet churns out a lot of them? Ryan Adams he makes Prince look lazy, in terms of doing something he plays shows, but no one considers that promotion anymore, now its about making videos and doing tv shows. Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp averages 1 a year, the thing is most labels dont let you release more than 1 every two years. I think it's less about making videos these days. I think people make them just to stay in the game, it's not like they really get played anywhere but clubs/bars. Live playing is still considered promotion esp when ad's are taken out in the local papers. In many cases, people sell theur swag there and get the music directly to the fans. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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lastdecember said: TotalAlisa said: because look what it did for mariah 2005-2006 she was EVERYWHERE.. she came on EVERY show and every award show... she really did an amazing job at that...
so yes britney should have promoted her album... not just for sales.. but for the few fans she has left
and when artist promote their album it sells a lil bit better.. i seriously think if britney really did promote her album it woudl have sold more Not true, Mariah got so LUCKY with this album. Ok this how it was, if this record didnt sell MARIAH was gone, this was the make or break record, Def Jam put nothing into this record, because they were losing still off of Charmbracelet. Her deal called for one more album after this but if this one failed than that was the end for her basically. When "Its like that" was released it BOMBED yeah sure it hit Top 20 but as for the lead single IT BOMBED, and i can tell as a witness this album was already on product recalls to vendor, meaing the stores were sitting on tons of it and needed to ship alot back. The break "We Belong Together", that was it, that is really the only reason MARIAH is still there and still in the spotlite, and lets remember Mariah was doing all this same PROMO during all her albums, shes a PROMO JUNKIE, the difference with MIMI was that people that didnt care suddenly cared, |
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VoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: Considering it was the return of JD it was viewed that way, and by Def Jam too, This album was close very close to being written off, mainly because your first single is what people go by. I disagree that it was viewed that way. The strategy was to put something out there that was going to get her played on the radio again, so they hit with a more urban track. If they'd put a typical Mariah ballad out there as a first single it might have flopped outright like Through The Rain did. But in the end it was a ballad that saved her, trust me it was viewed that way, this album was not going anywhere at that point, it had nothing to do with promo it was pure luck that the song even took off. Had they paused for any longer between singles this album would have done nothing. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: VoicesCarry said: I disagree that it was viewed that way. The strategy was to put something out there that was going to get her played on the radio again, so they hit with a more urban track. If they'd put a typical Mariah ballad out there as a first single it might have flopped outright like Through The Rain did. But in the end it was a ballad that saved her, trust me it was viewed that way, this album was not going anywhere at that point, it had nothing to do with promo it was pure luck that the song even took off. Had they paused for any longer between singles this album would have done nothing. I guess I don't trust you, then.  | |
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TotalAlisa said: lastdecember said: Not true, Mariah got so LUCKY with this album. Ok this how it was, if this record didnt sell MARIAH was gone, this was the make or break record, Def Jam put nothing into this record, because they were losing still off of Charmbracelet. Her deal called for one more album after this but if this one failed than that was the end for her basically. When "Its like that" was released it BOMBED yeah sure it hit Top 20 but as for the lead single IT BOMBED, and i can tell as a witness this album was already on product recalls to vendor, meaing the stores were sitting on tons of it and needed to ship alot back. The break "We Belong Together", that was it, that is really the only reason MARIAH is still there and still in the spotlite, and lets remember Mariah was doing all this same PROMO during all her albums, shes a PROMO JUNKIE, the difference with MIMI was that people that didnt care suddenly cared, Benny may be be smart but he is a sleaze, who will sell whoever is paying him at the time and if you arent on his team he cuts your throat that simple. Mariah did work hard but she works hard on every record, so this was LUCK sorry, i love Mariah but it was LUCK pure 100% Luck, she did everything the same way she did all the other records in terms of promoting, she did the videos,tv shows,magazines you name it, this time it LUCKILY worked. As a Mariah fan i can tell you that MIMI is far from her best, and We Belong Together doesnt even chart in her best songs list. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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VoicesCarry said: lastdecember said: But in the end it was a ballad that saved her, trust me it was viewed that way, this album was not going anywhere at that point, it had nothing to do with promo it was pure luck that the song even took off. Had they paused for any longer between singles this album would have done nothing. I guess I don't trust you, then. What can i tell you but i dealt with the labels 24/7 and the real people that could talk to me free of corporate shit not just what their bosses wanted them to say. This record was already on call back because stores were sitting on it and after the first two weeks it wasnt moving at a good pace, so after a month as in every month we would get a return to vendor document and sorry to say MIMI was on it, basically taking back half or more of the product. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Yes, of course artists should promote their albums/singles. Why shouldn't they? Promotion is part of the job. If my name was associated with something i'd want to promote as well. I think if you put in all that time and effort to make something such as an album and if you are proud of your work, you should do everything possible to make sure that as many people as possible know about it. "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ 
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lastdecember said: superspaceboy said: Is it bombing? I didn't even know he had a new one out if it wasn't for y'all here...and I keep a firm ear to the ground for new music. Usually for a Seal Record there is a bigger deal made. IMO, I think the issue that record is having is the same one Duran Duran is having...producer issues. In industry/label standards its a bomb the same with Duran Duran, to me its Seal's best work and most agree, hes done his job, if the label cant get it played then they failed not him. This thread seems very one sided. Promotion IS a 2 way street. SUre there are other factors that sell an album, but it takes the effort of both sides to make it work. I am failing to come up with an album that sold really well with no promotion by the artist at all...please point one out, if one exists. Thing is we see your point, artists should not have to, but the reality is (esp in these days of short attention spans and multitude of places to put you music out there) they really need to. The bigger the star is, the bigger they need to promote. Some indie band/artist who has a hard core following doesn't need to wrry about peromotion, cuz all their fans are waiting to pounce on new material, but I am willing to bet you dollars for donuts they are not simply dropping an album with no fanfare. As an artist one wants the world to know that they have new material to listen to. I think there are reasons for the 2 mentioned albums not doing as well. While they are both good efforts, many radio stations are probably puzzled by both releases. What's interesting is that both album producers hit gold with their last 2 efforts, but somehow their production on the these two new ones seems to leave everyone flat. Imagine if Price or Timberland worked on the next Sade album. Do you think it would do well? It might be a decent record, but it would be an odd one at that. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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