SoulAlive said:

I know, this thread is too much. I respect everyone's opinion on the state of r&b music, its basically about what turns you on...that's what's great about r&b - its so broad in terms of style and music - shit, you cant even define it anymore. I guess its hip-hop driven becasue the kids like that shit...and I even like some of it. Todays r&b music is the new crossover because its producer driven.

I never looked at Whitney Houston as r&b, she's a Pop artist with one of the greatest voices in our lifetime, Mariah Carey is another Pop music icon who sings r&b music because that's the new crossover music...and I appreciate great voices like a Jill Scott, Amy Winehouse, or Chrisette Michelle. When I want to hear great music, I'll play some old Stevie, Kool and The Gang, Prince, etc.

Anyway, the debate will go on and on, and on...when it boils down to it, what u like, is what u like - its just our opinions, and every generation will have a diff spin on it.

vainandy said:

Oh yes I hate everything you represent.


First of all, I did bash several times Prince for his singing skills on prince.org. I don't think he's a great r&b singer. I only like and respect Prince because he's a great musician producer, and performer.

And I I don't like all his stuff...

The reason why I said you represent everything I hate because YOU ARE THE REASON WHY MUSIC GOES DOWNHILL.

You claim several times that you don't care about singing, and even that you prefer talentlless singers over .

I took your logical to the extrem. And your logical led us to where we are right now. You accept the idea that talentless singers are acceptable over real singers as long as they have your favorite producers.

And this is exactly what we have to deal everday. Kids just like you, DON' CARE about real singing anymore. They only care about the music behind.

Kids don't care abot realsinging anymore and accept meduoi. Ifg kids ere more concerned abouyt rzl

vainandy said:

That's WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU. Your conception of quality music is limited to genres not quality.

That's why I said kids think just like you, they only care about genre not REAL TALENT AND REAL SINGING.

They only care about what they think will make them shake their butts in the club, something for the dance.

There's no good genre or bad genre, there's only good music and bad music.

From your point of you, you'd choose T pain or Cassie working with your fav funk producers over real singers like Chrisette Michelle ? Just because your funk producers will make the music that makes you shake your but ?


From this point of you Curtis Mayfield, Al Green or Isaac Hayes are shitty to you because they never made upbeat songs ?

vainandy said:

If you didn't know they have been producers since day one. You're confusing producers and musicians. Producers make music, musicians play music.
And back in the day, all the producers were also musiciancs too.


Anyway, producers have always existed since day one.

vainandy said:

The music that make them shake their ass.

If they have your kind of music, would you support it ? Would you like it ?

vainandy said:

I don't watch those shows.

vainandy said:

Nope, I mad at you because you accept talentless singers over real singers.

You are ready to accept mediocre talents over real talents as long as they made the music you want. And this is why Music is garbage now. Because too many kids follow the same mentality.

I'm not a fan of Whitney and even less MAriah...

vainandy said:

This is what I said...
You like those talentless people...

As long they made the music you want, you accept mediocre singers, you accept mediocre talents...

That's why Music is dead... Because those lip syncers took over the music industry...


And you are the reason why Music is garbage bow... Because kids love all those Vanity Shit/Madonna impersonators...

You are that generation that accepted those talentless people like Madonna or Vanity Shit...

And this is when the end started...

Now all those Pussycats Dolls, Britney Spears, all the same...
They ALL can't sing for shit, they have zero talent but still dominate the charts...
Right now the entire music music industry is polluted by talentless Madonna and Vanity Shit copycats who try to sell ...

While real talents like Chrisette Michelle are majorly ignored because they don't make dance floor music and don't work with popular producers...


When kids will learn to choose first of all REAL talents and real singers, maybe real Music is saved...
[Edited 11/2/07 18:20pm]

krayzie said:

In all due respect, krayzie, if you're not going to listen to people and instead paint rather inaccurate images of people trying to have a discussion with you then you need to move on. Actually, you and vainandy have very similar views and tastes on the same genre of music.

Not only did you ignore what I posted previously, you pretty much ignored vainandy and started coming up with your own argument. If you named your favorite soul artists, I'm sure vainandy would be in agreement with you. Instead, you're so fixated on his comment about Vanity 6 (where he once said he would rather have a decent singer with soul-sounding music over a superior vocalist who makes consciously pop-oriented music) that you stereotyped him as if he listens to the likes of Britney Spears, T-Pain and those ass-clowns.

krayzie said:

It depends on the talents in question. Larry Blackmon was an OK singer but he was a better character vocalist and combined with his creative ideas I will take Cameo over Whitney Houston any day of the week. I'll take George Clinton (another great character vocalist but tremendous musical mastermind) and his P-Funk mob over Mariah Carey any day.

It's in these situations where vainandy will take the likes of James Brown (particularly from the mid-60s forward) over the likes of Will Downing. In fact, most soul fans would be in agreement with him, because they were great innovative acts whose contributions in other aspects (namely, musicianship and creativity) make them stand out. There are other ways of measuring the greatness of acts besides pure vocal power.
[Edited 11/2/07 18:41pm]

Najee said:

Agreed.

FWIW, I absolutely love both funk and Whitney Houston -- always have and always will.

AlexdeParis said:

That's my biggest problem with soul music today -- the lack of diverse acts who each had their own personality and sound. It was no problem to find acts who made the polished, sophisticated soul like Luther Vandross and the ribald explosive sound stuff like Prince, nor was it surprising to know people who were fans of both. Like I said earlier, the rock and soul sound of The Isley Brothers didn't sound like the Southern flavored stuff of Al Green, who didn't sound like explorative style of Curtis Mayfield, who didn't sound like the laid-back balladry of Roberta Flack, etc. Today, the acts sound way too similar to where they almost are indistinguishable.

TotalAlisa said:

Very good point T.A. It would be different if these artists had the talent to go along with the youth. But they don't. Not if you compare them to people like Tina Turner, Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Aretha Franklin etc. These ladies are all over 60, and they can still outsing all of these current crop of artists.

ThePunisher said:

[quote]

krayzie said:

You are right about one thing though. My generation is the one that ruined music. My generation is the one that started caring too much about singing and less about music driven music. My generation is the one that let conservative or adult contemporary type music take over the radio airwaves in the late 1980s. The singers sang very well but their music was dull as hell. Hell, we started having singers take over that didn't even make one song for the dancefloor.

During this era, the singers were making less and less uptempo music but the rappers were making more and more uptempo music. Rap was very uptempo back then with groups like Pretty Tony and Freestyle, The LA Dream Team, Afro Rican, The Egyptian Lover, etc. Rap and hip hop was filling the uptempo dancefloor void that singers and bands had abandoned. When it all came to end though, was when rappers slowed down their tempo, stripped off all their instruments, and simply made "talking over a stripped down midtempo beat" type of music. This began in the early 1990s and hasn't changed since. Singers followed suit.

So you see, people that care too much about how well a person can sing are the reason that music died. Not people that cared about if the music was ass shakable. The thread is about why MUSIC sucks. Understand the word, MUSIC. There are tons of instrumentals out there that have no singing whatsoever.

As for Curtis Mayfield and Isaac Hayes, yeah I love them. As for them not making uptempo music, apparently you must have never heard of Curtis Mayfield's "Future Shock" or Isaac Hayes "Don't Let Go". And no, I don't give a damn how well they sing on those songs because the funk behind it is what attracted me to the songs.

Yeah, you're right my generation ruined music. But don't blame me, I have bitched and moaned since 1985. You can blame your "real singers" for being the beginning of the end because they were. Remember, the key word is "music". The thread title is "The reason current R&B music sucks. It doesn't mention singing.

People that have met me for the first time and have spoken with me for only five minutes knows I can't stand people like Britney Spears and I don't even know who the hell T-Pain is.

If he really thinks I'm into people like that, he's past krayzie, he's ready for a rubber room.

vainandy said:

OMG!

I was out at the clubs the other night and bore witness to exactly that! Damned if I remember the song that was playing, except to say it was slow as hell. This girl was trying to grind up on her guy, but the guy was standing stock still with only his arms moving a bit, and she was wiggling her ass so fast I swore she was having a seizure. They shot us the meanest looks when they noticed my buddy and myself killing ourselves laughing. Can't imagine why.

The truth is, these days if you want music fast enough to dance to, you've either got to head out to a white or asian gay club, or an emo/rocker club. The latter may not be rhythm heavy, but at least it's got enough kick you can do something other than hum to it.
[Edited 11/4/07 11:30am]

That's very true about the white gay clubs. They will give you some uptempo alright. As a matter of fact, they speed the tempo up too much. They play all that acid trance music that is actually too fast to dance to. All you see is a dancefloor full of people hopping around like rabbits.

It's a damn shame about the black gay clubs though. They kept jamming all the way up until around 1996 or 1997 even though everyone else had stopped jamming but they finally gave in to shit hop like everyone else.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Michael didn't grow up in church. JW's don't sing gospel music

Did Omarion, Trey Songz, Ashanti, and Chris Brown says they didn't grow up in church?

vainandy said:

Too fast depends on what you've ingested beforehand, doesn't it? Sometimes too fast is just right LOL. Retro night at the homo clubs always works well for me. Sure, you do get a heavy dosage of cliched queer music, but at least you know it's going to be a decent tempo for dancing.


Something's bound to change sooner or later. Even in my backwards-ass city, I can just feel a change happening in music. Like always, it'll start out in the underground scene in bigger cities then wave out from there, but the fact that that last night when I went out I heard a few songs I not only didn't recognize, but were fast enough to dance to and hard to pin a genre on was encouraging. Even moreso when it wasn't just the three of us getting down to these new, unidentifiable tunes. Maybe there's hope yet.

Janfriend said:

This thread is built on that mistaken foundation yes. As I said above church attending hasn't dropped off in America let alone in the African-American culture. Chances are all the modern R&B acts attended church just as the previous generations did. Thread over.

vainandy said:

First of all singing has always been important until your generation. And your generation started to be more focused on image and talentless artists. Madonna and Vanity shit are prime examples of that evolution. They have little to zero musical talent but could outsell real talented artists. And right now the children of that generation have completely accepted mediocrity as a norm.

And it doesn't surprise me that you care about Madonna and Vanity Shit, which are representatives of the downfall of music...

But the pinnacle happened when your generation made famous the group Milli Vanilli. They became the biggest act of the late 80's without even singing on their own records.
It shows what can happen when people don't care about "real singing" anymore, this is what happens when people only care about the music behind and image ...

Talent became secondary to image, music videos, crap talents and shakassable music behind...

Your generation embraced talentless artists and sacrificed real talents in the name of ass shakable songs behind and good image.



My friend, you have to understand, I don't give a damn about your uptempo songs, or your dance floor songs ...
If you care about upbeat songs, good for you...

I don't complain about that because I'm not against the evolution of Music... So I really don't know what you're talkin about...

I only care about quality and talent...

Quality is not about up beat songs or slow jams... Talent is not about up beat songs or slow jams...

Like goat2004 said its basically about what turns you on...

I only care about TALENT... This is what SHOULD matter in the first place...
I tolerate all kind of artists, and I accept all kind of music... But at only ONE condition :

If they have MUSICAL TALENT (singing, performing, playing instruments, writing good songs etc...)

If not... I don't care about your music...

That's why R&B Music goes downhill...
Your talentless lipsyncers took over the Music industry...

I don't like Whitney music for nothing... etc
But does she have talent ? Yes

Can Vanity Shit sing ? Do they have any talent, or musical abilities ? No.
Can Madonna sing ? Can she perform ? Does she have talent ? No, no, and NO.



My friend,
Serioulsy do you know the history of african american music ?
Singing has always been a VERY important part of black music... ALWAYS

What basically characterizes and differentiates black music from white music is the african rythm roots and singing...

Which come from african slaves...

All the different african american music genres are based on those two elements...

From early spirituals to Gospel, Jazz, Rythm and blues,blues, soul, funk, r&b etc

Black music wouldn't be Black Music without these two particular elements.

And also, you seem to misunderstand my point of view. My point of view is NOT based specifically on "singing" but on "MUSICAL TALENT", and if you didn't know singing is musical TALENT.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't think Prince is a great singer, but is he talented? Can he perform his songs on stage live ? HELL YEAH...

And I'm not a fan of all his music, he made so good stuff and some bad stuff in my opinion, but his musical talent makes him a legitimate artist in my eyes.

Madonna or Vanity Shit have zero musical talent whatsoever, so they have no legitimacy...


Kids right now only care about the music behind and image over real talent.





Hell yeah Your generation ruined Music, because they have embraced talentless artists and lipsyncers like Madonna and Vanity Shit, over REAL talents... It started in the 80's...




lol
Oh really so, I should blame Stevie Wonder because he's a real singer ?
Or Marvin ?
Or D'angelo ?
Or Maxwell ?
Or Al Green ?
Or Ella Fitzgerald ?
Or Tina Turner ?

because they could all "really sing" ? Because they have talent, because instead of your talentless lipsyncers that you seem to care so much, they could really peform on stage ?



My friend, remember the key word is : talent... Music is a matter of taste... And if you didn't know singing IS talent...

And right now there are very few talented people in mainstream r&b Music, which explains the reason why current R&B music sucks.

When the music industry will re open the doors to REAL talents who have REAL musical abilities, who can REALLY sing and doesn't lipsync like your Madonna or Vanity Shit, you'll see... R&B music will be muh better...
[Edited 11/8/07 14:02pm]

I definitely agree with your logic Krayzie, but to me, it doesn't matter how good a singer is if their songs suck.

Celine Dion=Great Singer but shitty songs.

David Bowie=So So singer but Great songs.

I care just as much as you do about talent, but not everyone who is talented does good things with their talent.

guitarslinger44 said:

Yeah I agree with you

Not everyone who is talented does good things with their talent...

There have always been talented artists making not that great music... But it has always been that way...


But the problem right now is we have a bunch of so called r&b artists who have NO talent whatsoever who polluted the charts, the music industry, the radio stations...


To me, no matter what type of music you do, you have to be a talented artist in the first place. It can be singing, writings songs or playing instruments etc... Whatever.

Then it's up to me to decide which artist I like or dislike... It's a question of taste...
[Edited 11/8/07 16:44pm]

It sure was. Boring vocal shit like opera was never considered dorkish. But don't blame my generation. Blame the generation before me that brought in the rock and roll era and got people more concerned with rhythm and something they could shake their ass to. They were the generation that changed things for the better, not my generation. Although, I wish I could give my generation that credit. Instead, my generation is the one that started things going backwards to the days when slow music ruled and ass shaking music didn't exist.




Ya know, that is so true. I can't tell you what a musical icon Vanity was in the late 80s. She was selling records left and right while folks that could actually sing, like poor little Shitney Houston, couldn't even get a hit. I also forgot that Madonna was the hottest thing on R&B radio also since the thread title is "the reason R&B music sucks".





And just what does Milli Vanilli have to do with someone like me. If people like me were the ones in control during the late 80s, funk would have been ruling the airwaves and someone like Milli Vanilli wouldn't have even gotten a record deal. They were a huge crossover act. I hate crossover music. I like funk.



I agree with everything except the ass shakable part. Where is the ass shakable music these days? I wish I knew, I would sure be out buying me some.




According to your theory you should. Stevie is known as a great musical talent more than he's known as a great vocalist. He also has some ass shakable songs too. Someone like him should be at the top of your shit list.



Oh, so now I'm into the lip syncers? If you recall, my favorites are funk bands and the only time they lip sync is when they performed on "Soul Train". Other than that, they were playing live in concert. And for the record, most of the real singers lip synced on "Soul Train" also.



So making music isn't talent? I'm glad to see that any old Joe has the ability to make music. I wish you would informed the shit hoppers of this. Maybe then, they would pick up some instruments, put some music behind their talking, and we can all get back to ass shaking, which is something that never should have ended in the first place.




I'm sure there are some talented singers out there but there are no talented musicians out there. That's why music sucks. The thread is about R&B music, not a damn acapella show.



Noticed the highlighted word that come from your own mouth. That's what will change music back to actual "music". As for the REALLY singing part, someone can REALLY sing acapella but it ain't music until you put the musicians behind it....and it is the musicians that make the asses shake, not the REALLY singing singers.



Ah yes. Every one of these artists today absolutely praise Vanity to the highest and list her as their biggest influence. She's become a musical icon these days. She's bigger than Elvis. Please! These little brats don't even know who the hell Vanity is.

That's all I've been saying all along but apparently someone seems to have a problem with me because I want talented fun ass shaking music back instead of talented boring rocking chair music back. And if that person thinks that I am going to stop insulting people like Shitney Houston, it will be a cold day in hell first.
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[Edited 11/8/07 19:19pm]

vainandy said:

I don't know what is boring vocal (it's just a question a taste). I only care about talent. And No I will never blame the generation before you because they would have never accepted Vanity Shit and other lipsyncers like Madonna in the first place. Music before the 80's was real, and was focused on musical talents.

vainandy said:

Vanity Shit should have never had a record deal in the first place...

And I don't talk about MAdonna

They have zero talent whatsoever...

vainandy said:

I name Milli Vanilli because their success is a prime example of what happens when people don't care about real singing anymore. Milli VAnilli have been able to make concerts, TV performances and being unnoticed for several years fooling millions of people ...
If your generation was more concenrned about real talents. Milli Vanilli would have never existsed in the first place.


They were very representative of what's was so wrong in the 80's... Music became more plastic and more fake than ever, with fake singers, performers, fake talents that could outsell real talents...

vainandy said:

I never said Vanity was a musical icon, I said your generation started to be more focused on image and talentless artists. And Madonna and Vanity shit are prime examples of that evolution. They have zero musical talent but could outsell real talented artists.

vainandy said:

Oh, don't ask that to me, ask that to those kids...

vainandy said:

I think you misunderstood my theory, my point of viewis simple I blame crap talents. I only care about real talents, and these people in my list have real talents, not like your talentless Madonna and Vanity who make shakassable shit...

Stevie wonder is known as a great musical talent and one of his various musical talent is singing...
Just like Marvin Gaye, just like Donny Hattaway, just like Al Green etc...



You proudly claim that you don't care about singing, so I think you have no problem to support lipsyncers like Madonna...

vainandy said:

Excuse me but where did I say music isn't talent ?
I said the key word is talent... This is where everything should start...

Without talent there's no Curtis, Marvin, Prince, Stevie, Miles, Sly, JB, Jimi etc...

That's why R&B Music is crap now, because the artists who dominate the charts have NO talent.



You completely wrong ...
There are so many good musicians/singers everywhere, but the record companies refuse to sign them because they don't make the type of music that kids want.

If people were more concerned about talent in the first place, music would be much better... But all they want is shakable songs...




Yeah, when people will be able to sing, play instruments, perform on stage, write good songs... Music will be back...

This is what musical ability is all about...



That's your own conception of music...

I think you don't know what musical ability means, because you don't think singing is a musical ability ...

You are also confusing musical ability and instrumental ability ...

When I speak about musical ability, I'm talking about anything that is related to (R&B) music which goes from singing to performing, playing instruments, writing songs...

And all I can say Vanity Shit and Madonna have absolutely while Whitney has some strong musical abilities since she can sing like no other and perform on stage...



Pussycat dolls are the modern version of Vanity Shit, a multi racial bunch of hoes who can't sing... They became the biggest selling act of the past 3 years... Britney Spears sampled one oftheir song in 2001...

vainandy said:

Sadly this is not exactly what you did say...

And I have no problem with you insulting Whitney...

But when you started claiming that singing doesn't matter and that you would supported talentless people like Vanity Shit over real talent like Whitney because they have your favorite music behind...

This is where I have a problem with you...

Because this is why basically r&b music right crap now...

The music indutry is dominated by crap talents who have no talent whatsoever...

Kids don't care about talent anymore, they only care about the music behind...

You damn right. Why the hell would I support a talented vocalist that has boring ass music behind them? Why? Just so I could go around hollering....."Look at this new album I have by this extremely talented singer"....while their music bored the living hell out of me.

If I did that, I would be like those fake ass people that Millie Jackson talks about on her song "Phuck U Symphony". They listen to her music with all it's cussing in private but when stuffy company comes over, then they throw on some classical symphony music like they are so damn saditty. I'm not a fake person at all. I tell it like it is with no shame in my game and don't give a damn who likes it or not.




That's very true. They have no talent whatsoever from the singing, all the way down to the music. The difference in me liking someone like Vanity 6, is that they had someone talented making the music behind their weak vocals, which I could have cared less about. I care about music, fuck the singing.



What music behind them? Where is the music? Where? They don't have any music behind them. They have a stripped down shit hop beat. That's all they have. There's no music whatsoever. That's the difference between my music and their's.
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[Edited 11/8/07 22:42pm]

vainandy said:

My friend, I don't ask you to support a talented vocalist that has boring ass music behind them, and what you call boring music is question of taste.

This is not the problem.

I blame you for supporting talentless hoes like Vanity shit who have NO MUSIC ABILITY, WO CANT SING, CAN'T PERFORM,CANT DO ABSOLUTELMY NOTHING WHATSOEVER OVER REAL TALENTS.
Because that's why Music sucks now. Because the charts are polluted by talentless people like Vanity Shit.

vainandy said:

My friend, there's no difference because you accept and support mediocre people like Vanity Shit. Vanity Shit have NO talent whastoever and should have never had a career in the first place.

That's why I have a problem with you, YOU ACCEPT TALENTELESS ARTISTS LIKE VANITY SHIT OVER REAL TALENTS.

That's exactly why Music goes downhill.
When talentless people lipsyncers like Vanity Shit took control of Music. This is where everything ended.

And this is exactly the reason why R&B Music sucks.
Because most of the artists in the music industry right now are as talentless as Vanity shit.

And just like you said, kids say fuck singing. They don't care about talent anymore, they don't care about singing, they don't care about real performances.

That's why they support talentless singers like Vanity Shit. Because they don't care about real talent.

That's why the music is polluted by many Vanity shit's impersonators.

You try to legitimate talentless people like Vanity Shit based on the fact that a talented dude produced their music. That makes fucking no sense. I will always legitimate the dude behind NOT VANITY SHIT. NEVER

From this point of view we should legitimate talentless lipsyncers like Britney Spears if Prince produced her album or T Pain if Prince produced his album or Cassie if Prince produced her album ?

Are you nuts ?

That's why I said you are the reason why Music sucks now.

Get rid of all those talentless people, and bring back real talents. This is what should matter in the first place.

vainandy said:

What music behind them?
Music that makes them shake their asses... This is all they care now... Just like you...
[Edited 11/9/07 8:58am]

I never said that kids say fuck singing. I am the one that said fuck singing, I was referring to myself not them. I said they don't care about music. Do you understand what I mean when I say "music"? Maybe that's what you are not understanding. I'm talking about instruments....drums, bass, etc. These are the things that kids don't care about. All they care about is what is in some rapper's lyrics. Yeah, they like singing too but none of it these days, the singing or the rapping, is over music.





It would take more than just Prince, or any other talented musician, producing one of these current artists for me to like the project. Prince would have to write all the songs, play all the instruments.....you hear me?.....instruments. His instruments, not their computers.

Also, if he worked with one of these current artists, they would have to either be doing interviews or have something in their lyrics that lets me know that they are finished with the shit hop scene altogether. Their project with Prince, or any other musician, is destined to fail from the beginning because these shit hop brats aren't going to buy it. I don't want the current artist going back to the shit hop scene once they fail with Prince. In other words, I want shit hop and anything that even resembles it in the smallest form, to die.

You see, just like yourself, I have very high standards, am stubborn, and do not lower them for anything. I can accept a current shit hopper that has changed their ways for the better, but only if they have left it and aren't going back to it on their next album.

As for how well they sing over Prince's or any other musician's music. I could care less as long as that funk was strong and hard behind them. Have you ever heard the Christmas song from the 1970s that has the dogs barking to the tune of "Jingle Bells"? I wouldn't give a damn if someone released full albums of those barking dogs if the music was funky behind them.





As Najee said before, you choose to ignore things so you can twist things around. "The music that makes them shake their asses"? Well, yes, I know they are shaking their asses but, I ask again, where is the music they are shaking their asses to? I don't hear any music making them shake their ass. Where is the drums and the bass? And no, those weak shit hop sounding drum machines are not an acceptable answer because that is NOT music.

Now, once again, for the 81st time? Where is the music that they are shaking asses to that's supposed to make them a direct result of what I like?
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[Edited 11/10/07 2:17am]

vainandy said:

No, you misunderstand me, I said kids talk just like you, they say fuck singin. They have the same mentality....
Kids dont care about singing anymore, don't care about talent...

Just like you they have no problem to support talentless people like Vantity Shit...

That's why the music R&B is full of talentless lipsyncers...

That's why maintream R&b Music sucks now...

vainandy said:

Yeah this is what I'm saying if your talentless lipsyncers like T Pain, Cassie, and Britney Spears are produced by Prince, you'd support those crap talentless people over real talents.



That's why I'm saying you are exactly the reason why R&B Music is crap now, you accept talentless people...

I don't...

vainandy said:

My friend, not at all, we have very strong different standards... That's why I don't care about your Madonna and your Vanity Shit...

For you, talentless people are acceptable if they have great producers behind.
I'm sorry I don't accept talentless artists no matter who produces them.

This is the reason why we got all those talentless Omarion, T Pain, Jlo, Britney Spears, Cassie... etc

Just because your talentless Vanity Shit are produced by Prince make them legitimate artists in my eyes.

I only care about talent... Everything should start from that point. No matter what style of music you do, you have to be talented in the first place...



This is what differentiates me and you, I don't tolerate talentless acts like Vanity shit...

vainandy said:

Yeah this is what I said, that's why you supported talentless people like Vanity Shit. And now singing doesn't matter anymore for kids... Kids have embraced your mentality, that's why they love all those lipsyncers that need backtracking to perform on stage... This is the norm now...


I'm sorry I don't accept that...





I twist nothing, I just show you that when you accept and tolerate mediocre and talentless people, you automatically kill R&B Music... that's my point of view...

And Vanity Shit damaged R&B music... Because they are mediocre talentless people...

And concerning music, I don't want to argue about that because it's really a question of taste...

I'm more concerned about talent and quality no matter what style of music you do...
Because there's something that nobody can't deny : TALENT
Nobody can't deny the talent of Whitney Houston, and nobody can't deny the mediocrity of Vanity shit...

No matter who produce their music behind... This is where everything should started in the first place...

Do you have talent ?
Have you any kind of Musical ability whatsoever (singing, playing instrument etc)?
Can you perform on stage LIVE ?

This is what should matter, and your Vanity shit can't pass the test...

I have nothing against hip hop, rock, or funk, or soul... So arguing about music genres is meaningless to me...


I only care about talent and quality, because without talent there's no good Music...

There's no Prince, no Stevie, no MArvin, No Donny, No Sly, No James Brown, No Otis, No Al Green...
They are all different, they all make different music, but they all have something in common, they have TALENT...

And Vanity shit don't have talent...
[Edited 11/10/07 6:38am]

krayzie said:

Very Well said. I agree 100% about that Talent part.