midnightmover said:

I told you only the first minute lol. I didn't care about the part when she starts singing because I don't like it either. I think I overall prefer her playing over singing.

jonylawson said:

did u see all them girls on trl? They were lovin that song..it was played at the club here on Saturday too, and I can't stop seeing the video everywhere.

u guys may be not tuning in

paisleypark4 said:

i saw that episode of TRL and that was really cool how the kids were singing it. i personally love this song. the synths are mostly what does it for me but i'm happy she's trying something a little different. i'm hoping for maybe some midtempos and not all slow jamz like usual. i'm really hoping this cd will be good!

dancerella said:

me2. Although it was her slow jams on the last album I found most interesting I couldnt get in2 Heartbeat really.

dancerella said:

Whatever song that's playing on this intro sounds like it will be a mid/uptempo.

http://inthestudio.alicia.../main.html

midnightmover said:

We all know that if a person's life is not on the front page, then they are not worth talking about, especially up in here. I would rather see Alicia, than that goat sounding Shikira. Besides, it was only my opinion.

thekidsgirl said:

Co-sign.

Yeah I was not impressed with the first single either. Hopefully the new album has better songs on it though.

lastdecember said:

Sigh. Your memory is letting you down. You are the one who dragged Prince back into this by making this irrelevant statement earlier. "And as far as screaming fake we can also say that about everyone too if we wanted, i mean have we seen Prince interviews from the late 90's, watch them and think of him now and realize all the bullshit he was selling with talking about Love and crap and then dumped Mayte for another woman, i mean come on now." Let me remind you, this was your response to the point about Alicia's performances coming off fake. You responded by talking about Prince's interviews in the late 90s and his treatment of Mayte. Completely irrelevant. Since then you've backtracked and started talking about his business strategies, which is just as irrelevant. I'm talking about the fakeness of Alicia's performances. Now if you're saying there's a similar fakeness in Prince's performances, that would be relevant (dumb, but relevant), but I don't think you are saying that so you are, in effect, just making noise for the sake of it. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with the point. Oh, and just to prevent more confusion on your part, let me stress that the other passing Prince references I made in this thread have already been dealt with and put to rest (when you and I agreed she would never reach a comparable level). Since then you are the one who's brought him back into it, as I've shown above.

Finally, you seem to be saying she will grow to be something great in the future. I have to ask what reason you have to believe that. I see none whatsoever, because she shows none of the necessary character traits. I've heard nothing from you or anyone else to convince me otherwise.
[Edited 10/23/07 8:52am]

midnightmover said:

No actually Prince was already in the debate because it was used as a reason to start this in the first place, this whole thing that Alicia thinks she is Prince or Stevie isnt my creation, nor do i even think its hers. Shit if thats how shes billed then fucking complain about the media. If she was walking around saying "hey im the new Prince" then i would be slapping her down in a second. My Prince point was showing mainly how artists bullshit in interviews to sell a product, case closed, they all do it, and that is also a way of being "fake" and "empty". As far as why i think Alicia will mature into a better performer/artist, well mainly because there is talent there, and to compare her with Ciara or Jlo is insane, mainly because one is an artist and the others performers, big difference, which is something people still dont understand. People think that having an album or two or some hits and success qualify you as an artist, but it doesnt. And as far as her being 6 years in and not "showing" you anything, well to each his own, i hated her first record and liked the second alot, so there was growth right there for me. But stop this timetable thing with artists, times have changed, it doesnt work like that anymore.

midnightmover said:

I see what your saying so I have a question. Out of all of the mainstream artists today, do you think anyone have those characteristics that would make them great?

lastdecember said:

There's no polite way of saying this. You are talking complete bullshit. The earlier comparison to Prince, Stevie, and the rest had already been put to one side by the time you decided to call Prince fake for some interviews he gave in the 90s. I have already quoted the exact moment in which you did that, so you need to stop fronting. Go back, re-read my post, and this time try to understand it. Then you can avoid making yourself look like even more of a scatter-brain. We were talking about Alicia's fake performances when you diverted into Prince's treatment of Mayte and other stuff that had nothing to do with the point.



Yes, she has the talent to sing and play piano, but that does not answer the question of why you think she will grow to be a great (or even better) artist.



Once again, you've completely missed the point. The reason I mentioned the likes of Ciara was because I was pointing out a false duality; a fallacy which you have obviously been conned into believing. That fallacy is the idea that pop-tarts are all about image whilst singer/songwriter types like Alicia, are all about artistry. This is an illusion. Alicia's success owes just as much to her looks as Ciara's. That's not saying they are the same type of artist. It's merely exposing a naive belief some of you have.

midnightmover said:

Ok for the last time the Prince reference is to combat your talking of how someone seems empty and fake. Is Prince a fake performer, no, and neither is Alicia, if she hits you like that than thats cool, sorry but she doesnt hit me that way. You were talking on how she was put forward as something and didnt deliver, my PRINCE comment is to show HOW HE HAS put things forward and not delivered and its been his doing not a media creation that was it. Ok his push on Emancipation and Kamasutra and all that junk was nothing more than a "creation" that wasnt real to begin with.

As for why i think Alicia "could" become one of the better performers of THIS GENERATION is simple, she has the talent, the upbringing and at least knowledge of what came before her and the respect of it, but judge for yourself, its not my job to convince you who someone is, i had the same DUMB debate with trying to get people into Norah Jones, everyone would say "shes boring" but that would be the end of their debate because they havent even heard her albums, seen her live etc so their opinions were useless and its not my job to sell her to them.

And last but not least lets not limit this to just POP TARTS, there are plenty of male performers that sell on their looks and sex appeal, so jump off that argument already, thats how things are pushed so if thats your complaint, like i said talk to the labels and the media. And we know that they all use Sex to sell at some point, even the greats that we speak of. The double standard that a female cant have talent and be pretty too is a joke at this point.
[Edited 10/23/07 10:01am]

dragondayz said:

I'm glad to know you understand dragondayz, as lastdecember seems to genuinely not have a clue. As for your question, I have to say in mainstream R&B, only Gnarles Barkley hold out some vague promise. From seeing interviews with C-Lo last year, listening to his lyrics, and watching him perform I would say that he genuinely seems to be marching to his own beat, and has the necessary skill to translate that into memorable work. I know he's had quite a lengthy solo career, but unfortunately I never heard anything about him before so I don't know how his solo work compares.

Generally the only artists I'm aware of at the moment who are doing great stuff are older white cats in their 50s. John Prine's 2006 album Fair & Square was unbelievable. Nick Cave is another one. Of the younger white artists there are some cool indie artists like Arcade Fire, and even Razorlight, but I tend to steer away from that genre. What I've heard of Laura Veirs has also impressed me, but she's way too geeky looking to ever go mainstream. However, I'm not suffering from any lack of great music because there are so many great artists from the past to discover, many of whom have slipped under the radar. Bobbie Gentry is the latest one. One of the best lyricists of all time, with a really smoky, soulful voice. You haven't lived until you've heard "Apartment 21", or her versions of "I'll Never Fall In Love Again", and "In The Ghetto".

However, what I'd really love would be an upturn in the quality of black music since that is what I grew up on, but I'm not holding my breath. It's a tragedy what's happened to black music. When you've got people wetting their pants over phonies like Alicia Keys you know times are bad.

midnightmover said:

Sorry but i have a clue and the artists that you mentioned Arcade Fire and Razorlight? I saw Razorlight and they were awful couldnt even perform live, these to me are one hit/album wonders that fall into that Amy Whinehouse "oh shes god" type of judgements. Sorry but I already have seen headlines putting Razorlight and Arcade Fire as the best bands in the world? Are you kidding me, how about showing something and then getting this credit, this is how Coldplay got their big undeserved praise. From this decade on the male side i would say WILCO and Ryan Adams are the best thing that American has at this point, from the older guys, mellencamps albums are still top notch. As for Black Music it hasnt gone anywhere you just need to look better for it, there are plenty of artists buried underneath the Mario's and J Holidays and Keyshia Coles, search.
[Edited 10/23/07 10:36am]

lastdecember said:

Okay, I'm not gonna beat a dead horse with the other points. You're tap dancing all over the place and will continue to tap dance, so let's just nail this one. Firstly, this has nothing to do with gender. Alicia would be fake whether she were male or female. Just like Usher is fake in his way. Just like Justin is fake in his way. But what makes me laugh is you always talk about double standards and how those double standards affect beautiful women, the very people who BENEFIT from those double standards. This is a bit like complaining about how anti-black racism in the workplace is unfair to white employees. Yes, there is a double standard out there but you are someone who strengthens it by supporting women who have made it on their looks (Mya, Amerie, Nicole, Britney, etc.) I can't imagine a female artist going mainstream looking like Jay-Z or Nee-Yo. What's so comical is that you rail against the double standard at the same time as you perpetuate it, and don't even know you're doing it. Where are the ugly female artists you stick up for? Quite frankly my point about Alicia's success being just as much about her looks as Ciara's is proven by the simple fact that someone like you is defending her. I'm sure if Alicia took one look at the list of bimbos you support she would be horrified to be in the same company.

lastdecember said:

I mentioned Razorlight and Arcade Fire in passing because they are people who have written some genuinely good songs and have a good sound although it's not really my thing. I'm certainly not calling them the best thing since sliced bread (they're not). I'm merely trying to "accentuate the positive" as the old folks used to say. I'll agree that Ryan Adams is a genuine talent. But if you want to check a great older artist, you need to check John Prine. I doubt if many people around here have ever heard of him, but he's making some great music in recent years. As for black music, back up your claim. You say there's great stuff out there. Tell me who. Of course, considering you think Norah Jones and Bon Jovi are great, you'll forgive me if I don't put too much store by your opinion.

midnightmover said:

Sorry but thats just dumb, really dumb, when did i EVER put these women on a level where i portrayed them as GODS of music. Just because i like Mya and Amerie and support them doesnt mean a damn thing, i also support Angie Stone and Jaguar Wright, you have no clue who i support. Just a few weeks i pointed out the new Ann Wilson and Joni Mitchell records, did anyone fucking care, no, why, well i guess that says something bout YALL. As far as Nicole well shes been around since 1997 and if she made it on her looks why the hell didnt it break for her till 2005-06, and sorry but she can sing, have you heard her doing "feeling good" accapella or other jazz songs she has? no guess not, they dont play that on the radio. You can support many different types of artists which i do and you have no clue who i support or listen too male or female, case closed.

It's just more of the same.

As to who claimed Alicia was on Stevie/Aretha's level, that would be:

a) her hype machine
b) reviewers
c) the press

midnightmover said:

Well i can make the same argument because here are two bands that are billed as the next best thing, just like Alicia was to you, i bought into them and sorry but they werent anything, and Razorlight was pretty bad. john Prine i like, Ryan like i said is the best thing of this "generation". As for black music, well check out Javier, and even Rashaan Patterson any of his work and also Tony Rich, as for females Angie Stone and Jill Scott. And sorry but Norah is great, sorry if you think she is boring, but people think Joni Mitchell is boring and she is one of the greatest of all time. As for Bon Jovi sorry but they can play, if you dont like their music than well we can all debate who people like all day.

lastdecember said:

I never said you called them gods of music, but you are well known around here for propping up non-entities like Mya, and making ludicrous claims about their supposed talents and how "different" they are, when they actually have nothing interesting about them at all, and no real talent other than the ability to carry a tune and booty-shake. That is unless you consider writing really bad songs a talent.
[Edited 10/23/07 11:23am]

lastdecember said:

I'd agree that most bands are overpraised. I talk about Alicia more though because it's on my home turf since I grew up on soul music. As for the black artists you mentioned there is nothing wrong with them, but there's nothing particularly thrilling about them either. Not one of them has written a song that will be remembered 20 years from now. And by the way, I've never met anyone who really knows about music who thinks of classic-period-Joni as boring. Snorah's music on the other hand is only good for elevators and dinner parties. It's background music and functions well in that capacity. You won't find people as consumed by Norah as they are by Joni, no matter how many more people have Norah's albums on their coffee tables.

midnightmover said:

Well we differ on Noarh on that point, maybe because i have seen her and her band countless times well before they were even signed, but Norah has easily grown on her albums and unreleased music and also on stage. When i took a few friends to see her they were complaining because she didnt get from behind the piano? I mean thats her thing, shes a musician, sorry she is, she was playing long before singing and didnt really sing till her days with Peter Malick and Wax Poetic. As far as being remembered, well granted i dont think any artist of today is doing anything to be remembered that way, but its not really because of their talents, its just the way it is.