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PrintableI think this thread went out of hand because several of the orgers had the same discussion in another thread about Janet Jackson and her songwriting and producing talents. In that thread, one Janet Jackson fan made comments such as "Janet made Rhythm Nation," "She is the main contributor to the songs because her name comes first in the songwriting credits," and more along those lines. Hence, Najee's understandable frustration.
But I think not all Janet Jackson fans are delusional; alphastreet, for example, seems level-headed and realistic about Janet.  [Edited 10/11/07 13:11pm] | |
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Double post.  [Edited 10/11/07 13:19pm] | |
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I officially declare this thread legally and criminally insane.
Seriously why everybody pitch a bitch over a topic that's gone off thread. To get back to the thread of matter, nah, I think it did have some freestyle but that's another name for dance pop, really, IMHO. | |
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It sounds just like Prince, what do you mean? Jam and Lewis helped with the Minneapolis sound, but Prince IS the sound sweetheart. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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Najee said: VoicesCarry said: You can drop the attitude. I was talking about the more important part of the post: "saying that Janet Jackson has enough skill and proficiency in songwriting and producing that she is telling Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis what to do", which was altered because I hadn't actually said that.
There is no "everyone except you"-type of change in anything, save for adding "what" and "is" -- coordinating conjunctions. It's the same statement I posted. VoicesCarry said: That isn't true, because most Jam & Lewis acts are not involved in songwriting or producing whatsoever. They are presented with tracks, they sing them, and they walk out with a paycheque.
Outside of putting her name on credits, it certainly doesn't sound like Janet Jackson is involved enough to make a tangible difference in the output. A lot of the songs more or less sound like the same product Jam and Lewis produced for other artists at the time. [Edited 10/11/07 9:00am] janet never claimed to be a producer, but janet clearly has a major input on her lyrics. jam&lewis has never written songs for other artists thats anything like janet's songs...if they did please name them. all of their work with other artists are heavy r&b productions, what other artists have they made pop/dance/r&b type tracks for? bringing up her 1st 2 albums makes no sense, she was a kid, of course she learned alot by working with jimmy and terry.so basically jam&lewis gets all the credit for the music when she was on top, but once things dont go so good ...janet needs to write about something other then sex, even though jam&lewis was still her producers. | |
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qvgangsta18 said: Janet didn't write shit, she played the game called Amtrak well enough that they decided to give her some writing credits,
[Edited 10/10/07 16:04pm] Oh, yes... and you know that, because... you sat in with them when they were writing the songs?? No?? I thought so! This Janet bashing and people talking out of their ass is getting more ridiculous and annoying each day! None of you knows anything! Nobody was sitting in the studio when they created these albums... so stop stating your opinions as fact! When all three are credited for writing a song then all three collaborated... unless you have concrete proof (which, of course, you haven't) that that's not the truth! Otherwise, keep your opinions to yourself! Damn it! | |
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PatrickS77 said: qvgangsta18 said: Janet didn't write shit, she played the game called Amtrak well enough that they decided to give her some writing credits,
[Edited 10/10/07 16:04pm] Oh, yes... and you know that, because... you sat in with them when they were writing the songs?? No?? I thought so! This Janet bashing and people talking out of their ass is getting more ridiculous and annoying each day! None of you knows anything! Nobody was sitting in the studio when they created these albums... so stop stating your opinions as fact! When all three are credited for writing a song then all three collaborated... unless you have concrete proof (which, of course, you haven't) that that's not the truth! Otherwise, keep your opinions to yourself! Damn it! they need to make up their minds..one minute jimmy&terry wrote everything and just gave janet credit, the next minute rene co-wrote all the songs with janet, then these same people turn around and criticize her for writing about sex too much, amazing. | |
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I should have read further on before commenting! I totally agree with you DawnD!
Najee said: 2.) If you honestly believe that, especially when Janet Jackson never showed that ability on her first two albums and now we're supposed to think that she was telling two prolific songwriters and producers how to create music.[/color] Why do you keep harping about that?? She was 16 and 18 when she recorded her first 2 albums and obviously she was never in a studio before, so she slowly got into it (maybe she even would have wanted to contribute, but wasn't allowed, like the Jackson 5 weren't allowed and only got full control with their third Epic album)! Nobody is saying that she was telling Jam and Lewis what to do right away! She obviously grew from having no input, to having little input, to having a lot of input! You make her out to be like some puppet who only does what her producer tells her to do... and that certainly isn't the case! They do collaborate to come up with the songs! There is a sizeable creative input by Janet, as evidenced by the songwriting credits! And she certainly has a say in what direction the respective project goes! And why should she stop working with Jam and Lewis if she feels comfortable and the projects are succesful? It's not like she didn't do certain songs with other people! And it's only natural that she is working with her respective partners when they have talent or are record producers themselves! Other than that I feel you're only here to stir up shit and start argumenting! To let everyone know how, in your opinion, overrated Janet is! And to do that you use everything, without the slightest bit of proof! [Edited 10/11/07 14:24pm] | |
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qvgangsta18 said: paisleypark4 said: WEll Janet must put SOME attitude in her songs because they are written by all three of them, and janet has a hand in playing some instuments, keyboard and percussions i believe. Plus her stuff sounds different than other artist J&T worked with. If anything after Janet people wanted to SOUND like her productions with J&T Janet didn't write shit, she played the game called Amtrak well enough that they decided to give her some writing credits, [Edited 10/10/07 16:04pm] why are you going so hard against janet... its not that serious... whether she wrote the song or not.. she made amazing dance vidoes.. and performed those songs amazingly... and thats what made her a star.... and NO i do NOT believe that she slept with Jimmy or Timmy.... they are like older brothers and family to her.... |
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PatrickS77 said: Nobody is saying that she was telling Jam and Lewis what to do right away! She obviously grew from having no input, to having little input, to having a lot of input! You make her out to be like some puppet who only does what her producer tells her to do... and that certainly isn't the case!
They do collaborate to come up with the songs! There is a sizeable creative input by Janet, as evidenced by the songwriting credits! And she certainly has a say in what direction the respective project goes! Then if Janet Jackson has developed songwriting and/or production abilities to the point where she is telling Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis what to do and how to do it, then she is proficient enough to do it WITHOUT THEM. Irrespective of what album it came about. But she's not. JJ doesn't work with producers out of sense of loyalty but out of a sense of dependency. Saying she CHOOSES to work with producers and songwriters and saying she HAS to work with producers and songwriters is something else. If there was, there would be JJ songs that she created all by herself. You want to make her a little more profound than she really is. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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What kind of fuckery is this? | |
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Timmy84 said: What kind of fuckery is this?
 | |
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2freaky4church1 said: It sounds just like Prince, what do you mean? Jam and Lewis helped with the Minneapolis sound, but Prince IS the sound sweetheart.
Papa Joe said YOU BETTER NOT MAKE MY DAUGHTER SOUND LIKE PRINCE. [Edited 10/11/07 18:04pm] White Americans, what? Nothing better to do? Why don't you kick yourself out? You're an immigrant too. -White Stripes | |
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Rodya24 said: I think this thread went out of hand because several of the orgers had the same discussion in another thread about Janet Jackson and her songwriting and producing talents. In that thread, one Janet Jackson fan made comments such as "Janet made Rhythm Nation," "She is the main contributor to the songs because her name comes first in the songwriting credits," and more along those lines. Hence, Najee's understandable frustration.
But I think not all Janet Jackson fans are delusional; alphastreet, for example, seems level-headed and realistic about Janet.
[Edited 10/11/07 13:11pm] I'm glad you realize that. I may have everything she's recorded including singles, remixes, vinyl singles, everything you can imagine, but even I know she has people behind her success and can accept that about her. I'm sure people on this board have seen me disagree with stuff regarding her at times, but it doesn't make me a hater, and certainly not a blind fan. If najee is frustrated, she needs to stay out of my thread and resolve her own issues when it comes to janet, cause this thread wasn't meant for that. It's the second time this week she's messed up a thread of mine. [Edited 10/11/07 19:30pm] [Edited 10/11/07 19:31pm] | |
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alphastreet said: I'm glad you realize that. I may have everything she's recorded including singles, remixes, vinyl singles, everything you can imagine, but even I know she has people behind her success and can accept that about her. I'm sure people on this board have seen me disagree with stuff regarding her at times, but it doesn't make me a hater, and certainly not a blind fan. If najee is frustrated, she needs to stay out of my thread and resolve her own issues when it comes to janet, cause this thread wasn't meant for that. It's the second time this week she's messed up a thread of mine.
First of all, I'm a MALE. Second, you act like it's my fault you apparently can't type your thoughts correctly. If you acknowledge that Janet Jackson doesn't create her own music solely, DON'T TYPE ANYTHING SAYING "SHE CAME UP WITH"/"SHE CREATED" her music. [Edited 10/11/07 19:35pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: alphastreet said: I'm glad you realize that. I may have everything she's recorded including singles, remixes, vinyl singles, everything you can imagine, but even I know she has people behind her success and can accept that about her. I'm sure people on this board have seen me disagree with stuff regarding her at times, but it doesn't make me a hater, and certainly not a blind fan. If najee is frustrated, she needs to stay out of my thread and resolve her own issues when it comes to janet, cause this thread wasn't meant for that. It's the second time this week she's messed up a thread of mine.
First of all, I'm a MALE. Second, you act like it's my fault you apparently can't type your thoughts correctly. If you acknowledge that Janet Jackson doesn't create her own music solely, DON'T TYPE ANYTHING SAYING "SHE CAME UP WITH"/"SHE CREATED" her music. [Edited 10/11/07 19:35pm] what I don't understand is why the hell you are getting so worked up, because of someone on the net typing something you don't agree with. It's almost like everything in your life has come to a stop because of something you read, you need to get out a little more | |
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alphastreet said: what I don't understand is why the hell you are getting so worked up, because of someone on the net typing something you don't agree with. It's almost like everything in your life has come to a stop because of something you read, you need to get out a little more
You sound pathetic. You absolutely have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, my other interests. I probably make more money than you ever come close to making, I make a living where I can leave my office any time and do far more community service work than you can imagine. But yet you're going to make some blanket statement based on the fact you can't articulate your statements correctly. Of course, it still has no bearing on your question about "Control" (laughingly) supposedly having connections with electro funk music. [Edited 10/11/07 19:49pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: alphastreet said: what I don't understand is why the hell you are getting so worked up, because of someone on the net typing something you don't agree with. It's almost like everything in your life has come to a stop because of something you read, you need to get out a little more
You sound pathetic. You absolutely have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, my other interests. I probably make more money than you ever come close to making, I make a living where I can leave my office any time and do far more community service work than you can imagine. But yet you're going to make some blanket statement based on the fact you can't articulate your statements correctly. Of course, it still has no bearing on your question about "Control" (laughingly) supposedly having connections with electro funk music. [Edited 10/11/07 19:49pm] We can't compare each other, I'm in transition and beginning post-grad studies soon. If I was 40 and doing nothing, then I can see where you're coming from. Jam and Lewis wanted funk, be it Prince sounding funk, The Time sounding funk, old school funk from the 70's, or simply funk in dance music. I think some people subconsciously get inspired by things without realizing, and that could have been the case. You don't have to like the idea, but you can at least try to be open to what others are suggesting or implying. | |
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alphastreet said: We can't compare each other, I'm in transition and beginning post-grad studies soon. If I was 40 and doing nothing, then I can see where you're coming from. Jam and Lewis wanted funk, be it Prince sounding funk, The Time sounding funk, old school funk from the 70's, or simply funk in dance music. I think some people subconsciously get inspired by things without realizing, and that could have been the case. You don't have to like the idea, but you can at least try to be open to what others are suggesting or implying.
Like I said, call me when you actually have a job -- much less one that makes you somewhat comparable. Then throw in all the community activities and hundreds of clients I have and then we can start talking about personal lives. Personally, "Control" was Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis' experiment of mixing industrial sounds with the latest technology. Jimmy Jam in particular has said he took sounds like horns (as in car horns) and crunched them for sonic effects. You have the car screeching sound effect and the distrinctive drum machine breakdown in "Control." "Nasty" was inspired by the sounds he made on a new keyboard he purchased and he has described the famous drum breakdown in "Nasty" as being more of a "factory sound." There is nothing electro-sounding about the "Control" album. That's not suggesting anything close-minded at all; that album doesn't have any of the sounds associated with that particular phase. [Edited 10/12/07 2:44am] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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I never believed it was an electro album either, far from it. Some of the music sounds slightly similar to some notable songs that came before it. What you've said about the composition of the music on control is interesting, however. [Edited 10/11/07 21:02pm] | |
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I'm gonna start making some popcorn this thread is the one to watch! | |
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btw...I heard a rumor that some of the 'Control' songs were already recorded and offered to another artist (Sharon Bryant of Atlantic Starr) before J&L began working with Janet.Apparently,Sharon was preparing her solo album and Jam and Lewis wrote some songs for her,which they later gave to Janet instead. | |
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A&M Records' John McLain reportedly wanted Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to work with Sharon Bryant and she turned them down. Then McLain introduced them to Janet Jackson.
I never got the impression the songs for "Control" were made before Jackson agreed to work with them; like with most Jam and Lewis projects, the songs for "Control" were created specifically for JJ while they were spending time getting to know each other. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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SoulAlive said: btw...I heard a rumor that some of the 'Control' songs were already recorded and offered to another artist (Sharon Bryant of Atlantic Starr) before J&L began working with Janet.Apparently,Sharon was preparing her solo album and Jam and Lewis wrote some songs for her,which they later gave to Janet instead.
thats is an untrue rumor... LISTEN TO THE LYRICS>.. it applies to janets life.. and yes she did help create and write control.... it was about what she was dealing with in her life during that point... so NO THOSE songs could NEVER have been made before janet... lets talk about how madonna doesnt produce any of her music and barely writes her own songs.. but yet gets praised and called an icon... |
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TotalAlisa said: SoulAlive said: btw...I heard a rumor that some of the 'Control' songs were already recorded and offered to another artist (Sharon Bryant of Atlantic Starr) before J&L began working with Janet.Apparently,Sharon was preparing her solo album and Jam and Lewis wrote some songs for her,which they later gave to Janet instead.
thats is an untrue rumor... LISTEN TO THE LYRICS>.. it applies to janets life.. and yes she did help create and write control.... it was about what she was dealing with in her life during that point... so NO THOSE songs could NEVER have been made before janet... lets talk about how madonna doesnt produce any of her music and barely writes her own songs.. but yet gets praised and called an icon... She's called an icon because she is a visionary. Her videos made her as well has her co-written songs. Plus she is now an artist that takes control over her career. One thig I do admit is that the music industry needs to have more than ONE female minstream producer out there (which is Missy Elliot). That's rediculous Janet's "Control" was definitley not made for anyone else. "Control" that title alone is a fuck you to Joe Jackson Janet's only Electro song is Free Xone Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: TotalAlisa said: thats is an untrue rumor... LISTEN TO THE LYRICS>.. it applies to janets life.. and yes she did help create and write control.... it was about what she was dealing with in her life during that point... so NO THOSE songs could NEVER have been made before janet... lets talk about how madonna doesnt produce any of her music and barely writes her own songs.. but yet gets praised and called an icon... She's called an icon because she is a visionary. Her videos made her as well has her co-written songs. Plus she is now an artist that takes control over her career. One thig I do admit is that the music industry needs to have more than ONE female minstream producer out there (which is Missy Elliot). That's rediculous Janet's "Control" was definitley not made for anyone else. "Control" that title alone is a fuck you to Joe Jackson Janet's only Electro song is Free Xone as well as velvet rope (slightly) get it out me show me so excited love me for a little while-just blaze remix someone to call my lover-80's mix as well a remix on the i get lonely single | |
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alphastreet said: paisleypark4 said: She's called an icon because she is a visionary. Her videos made her as well has her co-written songs. Plus she is now an artist that takes control over her career. One thig I do admit is that the music industry needs to have more than ONE female minstream producer out there (which is Missy Elliot). That's rediculous Janet's "Control" was definitley not made for anyone else. "Control" that title alone is a fuck you to Joe Jackson Janet's only Electro song is Free Xone as well as velvet rope (slightly) get it out me show me so excited love me for a little while-just blaze remix someone to call my lover-80's mix as well a remix on the i get lonely single Aaaah yeah... Get It Out Me did have some Electro in it. Show Me had some too.....and how can i 4get about the just blaze remix? Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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SoulAlive said: btw...I heard a rumor that some of the 'Control' songs were already recorded and offered to another artist (Sharon Bryant of Atlantic Starr) before J&L began working with Janet.Apparently,Sharon was preparing her solo album and Jam and Lewis wrote some songs for her,which they later gave to Janet instead.
You "heard a rumour"???? All that and more is common knowledge and is discussed in the Billboard Book of Number One Albums, among other sources. Jam & Lewis wrote rough instrumentals for some of the tracks before they got to Janet. Sharon Bryant decided she didn't want to do anything that hard-hitting on her debut, so she turned it down. Jam & Lewis then chose Janet from a roster of artists supplied to them by John McClain because they had previously met her at a Time concert. They hung out with Janet in Minneapolis, learned about her life, and wrote lyrics together. The concept of the album evolved from their time together. [Edited 10/14/07 19:16pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Jam & Lewis wrote rough instrumentals for some of the tracks before they got to Janet. Sharon Bryant decided she didn't want to do anything that hard-hitting on her debut, so she turned it down. Jam & Lewis then chose Janet from a roster of artists supplied to them by John McClain because they had previously met her at a Time concert. They hung out with Janet in Minneapolis, learned about her life, and wrote lyrics together. The concept of the album evolved from their time together.
The ironic part of this is that Sharon Bryant's solo (and only) album came out more than three years after "Control" was released (in fact, "Here I Am" was released in Summer 1989, only a couple of months ahead of "Rhythm Nation 1814"): 
Not only that, the album wasn't even on A&M Records, but on Polygram affiliate Wing Records. Talk about a series of bad moves -- leaving Atlantic Starr, turning down working with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis (thus leading them to Janet Jackson), changing record labels and releasing one album before heading into oblivion. [Edited 10/14/07 19:30pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: VoicesCarry said: Jam & Lewis wrote rough instrumentals for some of the tracks before they got to Janet. Sharon Bryant decided she didn't want to do anything that hard-hitting on her debut, so she turned it down. Jam & Lewis then chose Janet from a roster of artists supplied to them by John McClain because they had previously met her at a Time concert. They hung out with Janet in Minneapolis, learned about her life, and wrote lyrics together. The concept of the album evolved from their time together.
The ironic part of this is that Sharon Bryant's solo (and only) album came out more than three years after "Control" was released (in fact, "Here I Am" was released in Summer 19989, only a couple of months ahead of "Rhythm Nation 1814"):
Not only that, the album wasn't even on A&M Records, but on Polygram affiliate Wing Records. Talk about a series of bad moves -- leaving Atlantic Starr, turning down working with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis (thus leading them to Janet Jackson), changing record labels and releasing one album before heading into oblivion. [Edited 10/14/07 19:27pm] Yeah, they had so many problems with Sharon. It was crazy. She got married, she didn't want to record, she didn't like the producers that were chosen for her, she was upset with the direction of the album, etc etc etc. They wound up with a generic-sounding record that sounded dated when it was finally released. I think they stuck her on a little Polygram subsidiary because they knew it wasn't going to go anywhere (Polygram was still a part of A&M, I believe, since some of Janet's stuff was released on Polygram internationally). Foolish Heart was OK, but not much of a lead single at that time. [Edited 10/14/07 19:33pm] | |
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