John Winston O'Boogie Ono Lennon turns 67 today.

What do you think of how he's been portrayed since his death? He tends to be held up (by Yoko especially) as a Christ-like figure of peace. He was, of course, greatly conflicted, though, and could be angry, bitter and as raw as anyone else on the planet. His post-Beatles interviews make for classic listening - I wish some musicians (or, let's face it, anyone) would speak as openly and bluntly now as Lennon did back then.

He was a flawed human being who showed enormous strength and enormous frailty. I'd love to hear what he would have been writing in this day and age, although, of course, had he survived, he wouldn't be the legend that he is now...

Your thoughts on Lennon, "the man of peace"?

I think Yoko is fairly under-rated. She laid the path for Björk and Tori.

MikeMatronik said:

Me too. I don't think that people understand the humour in some of her work.

As for Lennon... I really don't know. I've always admired his strength of conviction in interviews but I can't help but think that he only half-believed some of his own views. In the end though, it's a moot point, as it's the message that's important, rather than the messenger.

You know, 'Working Class Hero' is a fantastic song, but by post-war British standards, Lennon's childhood was lower middle-class. He attended an art college and then became a superstar. He never toiled away on the docks of the Mersey or was forced to work in a factory, even if he did feel an affinity with the working classes. It's the same with the "Imagine no posessions" line from 'Imagine'. It's easy if you're a multi-millionaire to not even recognise material wealth on a day-to-day basis.

And then there's his mocking of Epstein (and later Mc.Cartney) through his music. He can be heard distinctly chanting "Baby, you're a rich *** jew" during the fade-out of 'Baby You're A Rich Man'... The contentious word either being "fat" or "fag" (but in any case directed towards Brian Epstein).

Speaking of which, there was obviously a love/hate relationship between Epstein and Lennon which I have come to believe was borne from a mutual attraction. Maybe Lennon was a bisexual whom had never had a homosexual experience - maybe it was more? Who knows? In any case, there is a very real queer sensibility to some of his lyrics.

Anyway... Here's one of my favourite Lennon songs - 'Instant Karma!' : http://www.youtube.com/wa...ieDFkhlByo

Well i think too many of us make the point that if you arent "poor" than you dont understand, or that if you have "material" things how can you imagine living without. Lennon was very flawed, but i got news for everyone, we are all flawed and many of the most flawed are the ones in the industry. I think in the final years before Lennons death he was finally growing up, but lets be honest had the Beatles existed in this media time, would any of that group been able to survive the day to day craziness that we seem to have now with media. Lennon was married during the early Beatles years and it was covered up, because they wanted to keep female fans interested, do you think that could have happend today, no way, photographers would have been chasing down Cynthia and Julian.

Since Lennons death we have learned many things, how he was considered a "threat" to the United States would be one, but also hearing his son Julian talk a few years back saying "My father was all about peace and love, i just wish i could have seen that side of him". And i think that is a very suiting statement, because it shows that John did believe his words but just couldnt act upon them in his own circumstances. I think Lennons interview the day of his death is a very "prolific" one and showed just where he had gotten to in his life, he had made "peace" with Julian finally, which in the end i think did alot of good for Julian.

Lennon was a great person for taking in what he saw, which is what an artist does, whether writing or painting or speaking on things, lennon always did that. You dont have to be poor to speak on it, i do think Lennon had his fair share of hardships in early life, i mean just listen to "mother" and hear his pain, if that song was recorded today,, some studio would clean up the "rawness" and that song wouldnt mean shit to anyone. So i think Lennon was that, a visionary, i think he really did believe what he would say, equal rights,ending racism, peace, stopping the war. But like many of us there was a time for him that he just couldnt make his own life work, and show the love he talked of.

A final Note, IM glad people choose to celebrate this day, to this day it still bothers me when i see people in Central Park on the day of his death, and not the day of his life.

i think my mom told me... someone was angry because he blasphemed god.. so they killed him... I don't agree with what happened... but dont' think you are going to get away with trying to curse jesus christ... or making a joke of jesus...

TotalAlisa said:

Please find out more about the incident you're talking about. I think you'll realize you're misinterpreting it. He did not curse Jesus or make a joke of Jesus.

TotalAlisa said:

It wasnt anything close to that. Back in 1965 at the height of Beatlemania Lennon was talking to a teen magazine and he remarked that "Kids around Beatlemania were thinking more of the Beatles than God" which was a true statement of course misquoted it read "The Beatles bigger than Jesus" and of course thats when the backlash started, and it wasnt like the backlash you see today with a Britney Spears or Justin or Janet Jackson etc, there were actually death threats, burnings in the streets of beatles records, this mostly occured in the southern states, but it was scary to see people act that way over something that they dont even know exists anyway. As far as the rest its insane to think thats why he was murdered, he was killed by a man who was just plain nuts and believed that he had to murder Lennon, but for those of you who do not know, Mark Chapman, who shot Lennon, did plan to do it earlier, and also planned to murder other people, Lennon was not the only one on his list, so please dont fall into this "religious" trap of justification of murder.

AFter seeing that "U.S. vs. John Lennon" documentary, it gave me a whole new respect for him. He really went out on a limb and had a lot to lose by dragging things out the way he did with the US Govt. and actually going to court against them. I don't think any of the stars of today would do what he did, they'd fold, apologize for saying what they said, and continue on with their lives. Sad what the stars of today are like: a bunch of spineless self preserving cowards.

guitarslinger44 said:

Hi not seen the documentary above but did watch a UK one on John's Jukebox which was great here a newspaper review of it..I still have to get the CD A double CD, John Lennon's Jukebox, is released by Virgin/ EMI.
http://arts.guardian.co.u...13,00.html
I'm sure it's the same reason Prince likes the music they made...

I think that Lennon was simply a genius. Flawed, as every human is, but a genius nonetheless.

He basically could have been great at anything--musician, artist, spiritual guru, political activist, comedian, writer, maybe even cartoonist. He was a personality you just couldn't ignore.

Unfortunately he was held back by his personal demons (& some external demons), but he still left a great body of work.
[Edited 10/9/07 12:13pm]

NDRU said:

That just about sums it up.

Sweeny79 said:

I just realized I wrote "personal demons & external demons!"

NDRU said:

I got what ya meant

NDRU said:

I would agree that Lennon was sometimes a genius songwriter. Not a genius as a man (of which there are few and very very few of those are musicians ).

For me, his Beatles work is what he should be chiefly remembered for. While he made some very good tunes solo, like McCartney, he needed that Beatles 'womb', I think, to really shine. I often find his solo work to be too self-obsessed and not universal enough. I do feel sad he never came back home to Britain and Liverpool after he went to America in '71. I believe he had plans to tour in '81, including in Britain, maybe with Ringo ...

I tend not to take his personal statements too seriously. He was imo a bit of a pontificator on things he didn't necessarily understand in depth (Just the sort of person who, if he were with us today, would be running a controversial, highly opinionated internet blog ), and his opinions seems to float around all over the place through his life. A man who imagined no possessions and yet, by the end of his life, had rooms full of junk he'd bought from NY stores and never even used.

But that's neither here nor there really. I don't like the way he's been 'sanctified' since his death, partly as it's just so 'not him' , but most intelligent people see through that and judge him by the facts, not the myth.

A unique human being. Still sadly missed.

Miles said:

Yes, no doubt his the pure musical quality of the Beatles outshines his solo stuff.

And he was a passionate guy who went from one extreme to the other. I certainly see huge flaws, but find them as interesting as his good qualities.

He saw himself as the new Jesus one day and just another guy on the next. And somehow both shoes fit.

Somehow, I'm sure he would have released some shit music in the 80's, then he would have had a big comeback in the 90's with a new masterpiece...

booyah said:

Okay well my mom is pretty old.. so I trust what she said.. and YES he said christianity would not continue and that people won't care about jesus christ and that he is going to die out...

but if you look at the world today.. so many people love to call themselves christians.. because it right now "christianty is popular"... Right now is a great time to be a christian... because you are free to worship god... but it won't be like that for long..... Many of you guys are going to mock me... and try to make a joke of what i say... so YOU don't deserve to have this kind of knowledge.. because you will take it.. and twist and turn it around.. and then make jokes about it...


but yes his music is anti-christ...

TotalAlisa said:

His comment was more about society than about Jesus himself. He was saying that to kids, popular things like the Beatles are becoming more important than Jesus. And I wouldn't say he's wrong. I see more homage paid to Tupac nowadays than Jesus.

NDRU said:

The more amazing thing is that Lennon in his quote and then response to the backlash, he explained it to the reporters that were asking what he meant he mainly was saying that "media" was putting too much attention on "Beatlemania" to kids and not things like Jesus. Talk about a visionary, what do you think Lennon would say of "Our" world today, where a war has been going for 5 years and no one really cares, and yet everyone knows where Britney is, its sad but Lennon was right about it all and then some.

lastdecember said:

John was right about so many things. Just listen to Imagine. The truth is there in the lyrics.

lastdecember said:

exactly, we're less focused on one particular band, but even more focused on entertainment, and less actively involved in important matters

lastdecember said:

Good essay.

MikeMatronik said:

I like Kylie. But Elvis, Michael, Madonna, & Tupac have taken that spot a long time ago.

NDRU said:

As much as I love the guy and his talent, I think all of the hype over his peacenik ways since his death have actually done a disservice to his legacy. The Christ-like figure he's portrayed to be has overshadowed the real, greatly flawed, severely conflicted artist that he really was. In 2007, he's like a cartoon character spouting "Give peace a chance" to most people, I think. I prefer what I know of the real guy, the real artist, to the Jesus Christ Superstar that he's been made out to be over the last 27 years.