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PrintableCinnamon234 said: Graycap23 said: I'm puzzled. After reading the lyrics 2 this track, Mj clearly has a certain perspective on Tom. With this in mind, why would Mike put himself in a position 2 get caught up by Tom a second time?
I certainly hope that Mike has learned a lesson. Well Tom Sneddon has been sued by others before for using unprofessional tactics so Michael is not the only one who has a problem with him, but I do agree that MJ should have not put himself in a bad situation again but after seeing that interview he did with Diane Sawyer in 1994, I can't say I was suprised that this happened again. I remember when Diane asked MJ if the sleepovers would stop and he said no and I thought to myself "What an idiot"! I'm sorry, I love MJ but he has no one to blame but himself for the second time. I think MJ felt like no one could tell him what to do so he decided to continue to have the sleep overs and look what happened? Michael has got to be one of the most self destructive people i've ever seen. He just seems to like getting in one mess after the next. I think the trial was a wakeup call though. He hasn't been doing anything crazy lately or hanging out with any kids that are not related to him. I think he has finally learned his lesson but he's had to pay a big price for his stubborness and stupidity. its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world.  | |
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kash said: its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world. No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ 
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world. No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] and one thing ive noticed on this forum is people quickly grouping MJ fans and this after only one comment.  at least give me a chance, say after about five comments.  | |
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kash said: Cinnamon234 said: No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] and one thing ive noticed on this forum is people quickly grouping MJ fans and this after only one comment. at least give me a chance, say after about five comments. Fair enough . I'm an MJ fan myself but i've just noticed from going to his fan sites that the majority of the fans on there tend to make excuses for him, but then again that's probably the case with any artist and their fans."And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world. No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] Exactly. When you get caught up in situations, you're only to blame if you put yourself at that position. I swear, if he does it again, I'm fucking cussing him out. Real talk. [Edited 10/2/07 15:12pm] | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: and one thing ive noticed on this forum is people quickly grouping MJ fans and this after only one comment. at least give me a chance, say after about five comments. Fair enough . I'm an MJ fan myself but i've just noticed from going to his fan sites that the majority of the fans on there tend to make excuses for him, but then again that's probably the case with any artist and their fans.Like a certain pop tart whose name is "toxic" on the news right now.  | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: and one thing ive noticed on this forum is people quickly grouping MJ fans and this after only one comment. at least give me a chance, say after about five comments. Fair enough . I'm an MJ fan myself but i've just noticed from going to his fan sites that the majority of the fans on there tend to make excuses for him, but then again that's probably the case with any artist and their fans.cool, i just like to see a bit of balance  , so i tend to throw in a few lines in now and again. | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world. No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] Yes, true that! But then again, he didn't see anything wrong in being with children! He had nothing to hide, so he talked about it! | |
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PatrickS77 said: Yes, true that! But then again, he didn't see anything wrong in being with children! He had nothing to hide, so he talked about it! That was bad move. Pardon the pun. | |
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Yeah, it was! But hindsight is a bitch! If he had known it'd go that far... I'm sure he wouldn't have presented that boy on the Bashir doc! | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: its not MJ's fault that there are sick minded people in this world. No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] I agree with you , except the falsely accused part. | |
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PatrickS77 said: Cinnamon234 said: No, but it is his fault for putting himself in that situation twice. One thing i've noticed about MJ and some of the fans is that it's always someone elses fault, never his. If he hadn't been hanging out with kids all the time he would have never been falsely accused and then all of this mess could have been avoided. [Edited 10/2/07 14:40pm] Yes, true that! But then again, he didn't see anything wrong in being with children! He had nothing to hide, so he talked about it! thats true because he sees himself as a child anyway and wants to play games! . There were many adults at neverland who knew about the sleepovers so MJ was relaxed about the whole situation and openly talked about it. If they were all alone then it puts a whole different perspective on the situation. | |
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Graycap23 said: PatrickS77 said: Yes, true that! But then again, he didn't see anything wrong in being with children! He had nothing to hide, so he talked about it! That was bad move. Pardon the pun. For real, that motherfucker was really bold.  | |
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anyway getting back to D.S.  yeah i agree sneddon is a cold man. | |
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kash said: PatrickS77 said: Yes, true that! But then again, he didn't see anything wrong in being with children! He had nothing to hide, so he talked about it! thats true because he sees himself as a child anyway and wants to play games! . There were many adults at neverland who knew about the sleepovers so MJ was relaxed about the whole situation and openly talked about it. If they were all alone then it puts a whole different perspective on the situation.A few of those adults who worked at Neverland would later turn on Michael though. A few of them had some not so nice things to say about MJ and those sleepovers...but yes sometimes I tend to forget that Michael is not the average joe and has a different way of thinking from other people. He obviously didn't see anything wrong with the sleep overs 'cause he felt he had nothing to hide as PatrickS77 stated, but at the same time common sense should have kicked in somehwere with MJ. No matter how innocent it was (or wasn't depending on what or who you believe) he should have not continued on with these sleep overs. I mean you are accused of this horrible crime once, your reputation is ruined, career is affected greatly, you settle out of court for millions (which was a mistake on MJ's part to pay the 1st accuser) and you still don't learn your lesson? I don't understand that at all. "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: thats true because he sees himself as a child anyway and wants to play games! . There were many adults at neverland who knew about the sleepovers so MJ was relaxed about the whole situation and openly talked about it. If they were all alone then it puts a whole different perspective on the situation.A few of those adults who worked at Neverland would later turn on Michael though. A few of them had some not so nice things to say about MJ and those sleepovers...but yes sometimes I tend to forget that Michael is not the average joe and has a different way of thinking from other people. He obviously didn't see anything wrong with the sleep overs 'cause he felt he had nothing to hide as PatrickS77 stated, but at the same time common sense should have kicked in somehwere with MJ. No matter how innocent it was (or wasn't depending on what or who you believe) he should have not continued on with these sleep overs. I mean you are accused of this horrible crime once, your reputation is ruined, career is affected greatly, you settle out of court for millions (which was a mistake on MJ's part to pay the 1st accuser) and you still don't learn your lesson? I don't understand that at all. Yes. I agree (except for the part about settling out of court; his insurance company paid not Michael Jackson). But must EVERY thread related to Michael Jackson need to talk about 1) his skin-color change; 2) numerous plastic surgeries; 3) child molestation accusations. It is like the Madonna threads where people write "She cannot sing" or "She is so overrated." As for the song, I love it. I love the HIStory album. I compare it to John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band. Both terrific albums. | |
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Cinnamon234 said: A few of those adults who worked at Neverland would later turn on Michael though. A few of them had some not so nice things to say about MJ and those sleepovers...but yes sometimes I tend to forget that Michael is not the average joe and has a different way of thinking from other people. He obviously didn't see anything wrong with the sleep overs 'cause he felt he had nothing to hide as PatrickS77 stated, but at the same time common sense should have kicked in somehwere with MJ. No matter how innocent it was (or wasn't depending on what or who you believe) he should have not continued on with these sleep overs. I mean you are accused of this horrible crime once, your reputation is ruined, career is affected greatly, you settle out of court for millions (which was a mistake on MJ's part to pay the 1st accuser) and you still don't learn your lesson? I don't understand that at all. Yes they turned on him after they were sacked but im talking about what he is thinking of at the time, which was that adults are here, they know and they are not saying anything so everthing is cool. People can fail to learn a lesson especially people like MJ with power and ‘yes’ people around him all the time. [Edited 10/2/07 15:50pm] | |
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kash said: Yes they turned on him after they were sacked but im talking about what he is thinking of at the time, which was that adults are here, they know and they are not saying anything so everthing is cool. People can fail to learn a lesson especially people like MJ with power and ‘yes’ people around him all the time.
Well that's a good point. This would have never happened if Frank Dileo was around though i'll tell you that. MJ should have kept Frank on as his manager. After him and Frank parted ways, everything went downhill. "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: thats true because he sees himself as a child anyway and wants to play games! . There were many adults at neverland who knew about the sleepovers so MJ was relaxed about the whole situation and openly talked about it. If they were all alone then it puts a whole different perspective on the situation.A few of those adults who worked at Neverland would later turn on Michael though. A few of them had some not so nice things to say about MJ and those sleepovers...but yes sometimes I tend to forget that Michael is not the average joe and has a different way of thinking from other people. He obviously didn't see anything wrong with the sleep overs 'cause he felt he had nothing to hide as PatrickS77 stated, but at the same time common sense should have kicked in somehwere with MJ. No matter how innocent it was (or wasn't depending on what or who you believe) he should have not continued on with these sleep overs. Well, Michael's "common sense" is different than the "common sense" in the real world! Plus he's stubborn and doesn't really like anyone telling him or dictating him what to do! The people who turned on Michael were shady people and all sold their stories to tabloids... so I wouldn't put much stock in what they say... I mean you are accused of this horrible crime once, your reputation is ruined, career is affected greatly, you settle out of court for millions (which was a mistake on MJ's part to pay the 1st accuser) and you still don't learn your lesson? I don't understand that at all.
Yes, it was a mistake! Would he have gone to trial back in '93 then there wouldn't have been trial in '05... he just postponed it! But then again, who can blame him... that motherfucker took almost 2 years out of his life... from Nov. '03 to June '05! Money, not even his own, seems a small price to make it go away quickly! And he made changes after '93... he wasn't alone in the room with the children, a third person was present... he didn't actually share the bed... and it wasn't like he had a truckload of children in his room! | |
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Rodya24 said: Cinnamon234 said: A few of those adults who worked at Neverland would later turn on Michael though. A few of them had some not so nice things to say about MJ and those sleepovers...but yes sometimes I tend to forget that Michael is not the average joe and has a different way of thinking from other people. He obviously didn't see anything wrong with the sleep overs 'cause he felt he had nothing to hide as PatrickS77 stated, but at the same time common sense should have kicked in somehwere with MJ. No matter how innocent it was (or wasn't depending on what or who you believe) he should have not continued on with these sleep overs. I mean you are accused of this horrible crime once, your reputation is ruined, career is affected greatly, you settle out of court for millions (which was a mistake on MJ's part to pay the 1st accuser) and you still don't learn your lesson? I don't understand that at all. Yes. I agree (except for the part about settling out of court; his insurance company paid not Michael Jackson). But must EVERY thread related to Michael Jackson need to talk about 1) his skin-color change; 2) numerous plastic surgeries; 3) child molestation accusations. It is like the Madonna threads where people write "She cannot sing" or "She is so overrated." As for the song, I love it. I love the HIStory album. I compare it to John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band. Both terrific albums. That's why a great album can really solve things. Unfortunately for the better part of 14 years, that's all anybody in the media would wanna talk about is what he does out of music. | |
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Cinnamon234 said: kash said: Yes they turned on him after they were sacked but im talking about what he is thinking of at the time, which was that adults are here, they know and they are not saying anything so everthing is cool. People can fail to learn a lesson especially people like MJ with power and ‘yes’ people around him all the time.
Well that's a good point. This would have never happened if Frank Dileo was around though i'll tell you that. MJ should have kept Frank on as his manager. After him and Frank parted ways, everything went downhill. But didnt dileo get too big for his boots. Also MJ likes to chop and change the people he works with. Wants to keep changing things in every direction. Also as MJ is very sensitive when anyone does not agree with his thoughts i reckon he takes it to heart too much and gets rid. He demands allegiance like a king.  | |
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PatrickS77 said: Yes, it was a mistake! Would he have gone to trial back in '93 then there wouldn't have been trial in '05... he just postponed it! But then again, who can blame him... that motherfucker took almost 2 years out of his life... from Nov. '03 to June '05! Money, not even his own, seems a small price to make it go away quickly! And he made changes after '93... he wasn't alone in the room with the children, a third person was present... he didn't actually share the bed... and it wasn't like he had a truckload of children in his room! Yes I'm aware of that, but he shouldn't have let kids stay in his room in the first place and esp. not after 1993. Listen, I never for a second believed those second allegations against Michael and I don't see how anyone who read about that case could either. The family is messed up and had a history of trying to take advantage of the system, I think they're all a bunch of no good liars but I'd just like to know how MJ could have trusted them and let them into his home? That was where he messed up. "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Timmy84 said: Rodya24 said: Yes. I agree (except for the part about settling out of court; his insurance company paid not Michael Jackson). But must EVERY thread related to Michael Jackson need to talk about 1) his skin-color change; 2) numerous plastic surgeries; 3) child molestation accusations. It is like the Madonna threads where people write "She cannot sing" or "She is so overrated." As for the song, I love it. I love the HIStory album. I compare it to John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band. Both terrific albums. That's why a great album can really solve things. Unfortunately for the better part of 14 years, that's all anybody in the media would wanna talk about is what he does out of music. You really think a great album is going to solve all of Michael's problems and change public perception of him? "And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: Yes I'm aware of that, but he shouldn't have let kids stay in his room in the first place and esp. not after 1993. Listen, I never for a second believed those second allegations against Michael and I don't see how anyone who read about that case could either. The family is messed up and had a history of trying to take advantage of the system, I think they're all a bunch of no good liars but I'd just like to know how MJ could have trusted them and let them into his home? That was where he messed up. Well, like Macauley Culkin put it: "I guess they slipped through the crack!". I guess, I hope, he won't make that mistake again! | |
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Cinnamon234 said: Timmy84 said: That's why a great album can really solve things. Unfortunately for the better part of 14 years, that's all anybody in the media would wanna talk about is what he does out of music. You really think a great album is going to solve all of Michael's problems and change public perception of him? Not necessarily but at least people will have something else to talk about him. | |
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Timmy84 said: Not necessarily but at least people will have something else to talk about him.
Well lets hope so... And even though I am talking about his personal life right now in this thread, I MUCH prefer for the focus to be on his music, talent and career any day over his personal life."And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ
"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always | |
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Cinnamon234 said: Timmy84 said: That's why a great album can really solve things. Unfortunately for the better part of 14 years, that's all anybody in the media would wanna talk about is what he does out of music. You really think a great album is going to solve all of Michael's problems and change public perception of him? While Michael Jackson is one of the most famous people in the world, in most places he is not as scrutinized as he is in the US and the UK. For example, NHK in Japan and MBC News in South Korea did not cover the Michael Jackson trial like CNN. He is still seen as an eccentric but brilliant entertainer and popular musician. In the US in particular, of course, the situation is the complete opposite. Most people see him as a weird person. But in the end, this is their opinion and imo their loss for believing what the mainstream media feeds them. Some of the most revered classical composers were seen as freaks and has-beens at the time of their death. And look how much their music is beloved right now. | |
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Rodya24 said: sosgemini said: say what? what bizzarro world have i entered that folks actually like this craptastic song? im reading the posts here trying to see humor in the accolades. please...please...for the love of humanity, please tell me this thread is a joke.
 Please are entitled to have their opinions with songs. At first I thought this song was shit. Now I think it is fantastic. There are several Michael Jackson songs I dislike, so it is not like we fawn over everything he does.  I used to hate it too...until I learned who Tom Sneddon was and the meaning behind the song...then they kept playing it on CNN...and then History after he was aquitted. i always used 2 skip DS but now its a must play. One day I will like Earth Song and Stranger In Moscow...but only time will tell 
ONE THING..is that History and BOTDF are clearly his most experimental body of work stuff he's done on any album. Morphine Is It Scary Superfly Sister Money Tabloud Junkie History Smile They Dont Care About Us Scream I kinda wish he can get in2 that weird phase again now...not angry..but weird...janet too... [Edited 10/2/07 16:40pm] Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: Rodya24 said: Please are entitled to have their opinions with songs. At first I thought this song was shit. Now I think it is fantastic. There are several Michael Jackson songs I dislike, so it is not like we fawn over everything he does. I used to hate it too...until I learned who Tom Sneddon was and the meaning behind the song...then they kept playing it on CNN...and then History after he was aquitted. i always used 2 skip DS but now its a must play. One day I will like Earth Song and Stranger In Moscow...but only time will tell
ONE THING..is that History and BOTDF are clearly his most experimental body of work stuff he's done on any album. Morphine Is It Scary Superfly Sister Money Tabloud Junkie History Smile They Dont Care About Us Scream I kinda wish he can get in2 that weird phase again now...not angry..but weird...janet too... [Edited 10/2/07 16:40pm] I want to hear unreleased songs from Dangerous. Superfly Sister and Blood On The Dancefloor were both originally intended for Dangerous "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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