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PrintableThe resaon Lily thinks Madonna is "the most overrated artist of all time" is because she's grown up knowing only the middle aged Madonna. The Madonna who has been responsible for some of the most embarassing and amateurish songs and performances of the last decade. If that was all I knew of Madonna and I saw the huge success she still enjoys then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Even taking her 80s output into account it's still impossible to justify her position as a respected "artist" because most of it was other people's work. Listen to her duet with Prince on Like A Prayer. Who does it sound like, Madonna or Prince? Obviously Prince. It's a Prince track through and through. Sure, the credits might have them down as equal contributors, but anyone with ears can hear that their contributions were not equal. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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PricelessHo said: i would love to put lilly and robbie williams in a room
  ding ding!!
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midnightmover said: The resaon Lily thinks Madonna is "the most overrated artist of all time" is because she's grown up knowing only the middle aged Madonna. The Madonna who has been responsible for some of the most embarassing and amateurish songs and performances of the last decade. If that was all I knew of Madonna and I saw the huge success she still enjoys then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Even taking her 80s output into account it's still impossible to justify her position as a respected "artist" because most of it was other people's work. Listen to her duet with Prince on Like A Prayer. Who does it sound like, Madonna or Prince? Obviously Prince. It's a Prince track through and through. Sure, the credits might have them down as equal contributors, but anyone with ears can hear that their contributions were not equal.
Yeah, and it's the weakest cut on the album. So of course if it's true of one half-assed song Prince worked on, it's true of her entire career. Okay. "Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you." - Kahlil Gibran | |
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midnightmover said: The resaon Lily thinks Madonna is "the most overrated artist of all time" is because she's grown up knowing only the middle aged Madonna. The Madonna who has been responsible for some of the most embarassing and amateurish songs and performances of the last decade. If that was all I knew of Madonna and I saw the huge success she still enjoys then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Even taking her 80s output into account it's still impossible to justify her position as a respected "artist" because most of it was other people's work. Listen to her duet with Prince on Like A Prayer. Who does it sound like, Madonna or Prince? Obviously Prince. It's a Prince track through and through. Sure, the credits might have them down as equal contributors, but anyone with ears can hear that their contributions were not equal.
I grew up in the heydays of Madonna, when she was in her prime. And I couldn't understand why she was popular (can she sing, dance play instruments, do).No talent to save her life... I came to the same conclusion as Lilly Allen, she's the most overrated artist ever... Yes she is.... | |
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See, that's the funny thing - I don't know enough about her to be irritated by her  Haven't heard any of her songs, wouldn't even know her name if not for the Org & other interweb blurbs   I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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Who is Lily Allen? | |
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and did she pronounce it "Madonner"  | |
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Raze said: midnightmover said: The resaon Lily thinks Madonna is "the most overrated artist of all time" is because she's grown up knowing only the middle aged Madonna. The Madonna who has been responsible for some of the most embarassing and amateurish songs and performances of the last decade. If that was all I knew of Madonna and I saw the huge success she still enjoys then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Even taking her 80s output into account it's still impossible to justify her position as a respected "artist" because most of it was other people's work. Listen to her duet with Prince on Like A Prayer. Who does it sound like, Madonna or Prince? Obviously Prince. It's a Prince track through and through. Sure, the credits might have them down as equal contributors, but anyone with ears can hear that their contributions were not equal.
Yeah, and it's the weakest cut on the album. So of course if it's true of one half-assed song Prince worked on, it's true of her entire career. Okay. It's a great track. You might want to listen also to the melodies on the Pat Leonard tracks and note how they're nothing like the melodies on the two Steve Bray tracks. It's also notable how the standard of songwriting fell in the 90s when she stopped working with Pat Leonard and stopped singing outside songs (apart from one below-par Bjork composition). Remember also that many of her best songs in the 80s were written by outsiders (Holiday, LAV, MG, LIB, PDP, etc). “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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krayzie said: midnightmover said: The resaon Lily thinks Madonna is "the most overrated artist of all time" is because she's grown up knowing only the middle aged Madonna. The Madonna who has been responsible for some of the most embarassing and amateurish songs and performances of the last decade. If that was all I knew of Madonna and I saw the huge success she still enjoys then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Even taking her 80s output into account it's still impossible to justify her position as a respected "artist" because most of it was other people's work. Listen to her duet with Prince on Like A Prayer. Who does it sound like, Madonna or Prince? Obviously Prince. It's a Prince track through and through. Sure, the credits might have them down as equal contributors, but anyone with ears can hear that their contributions were not equal.
I grew up in the heydays of Madonna, when she was in her prime. And I couldn't understand why she was popular (can she sing, dance play instruments, do).No talent to save her life... I came to the same conclusion as Lilly Allen, she's the most overrated artist ever... Yes she is.... All of that's true. I remember hearing her sing live for the first time and being shocked at how bad she sounded. That was when I first realised the wonders of modern studio techniques. However, the songs and videos she was releasing back then were brilliant. You're probably not a pop person, so it wouldn't appeal to you, but trust me, tunes like Papa Don't Preach, Dress You Up, La Isla Bonita, and Who's That Girl were the bomb. She played out her roles really well in her videos too, which was also a big part of it. That was another thing she lost somewhere in the 90s. She lost that sassiness. That edge. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: Raze said: Yeah, and it's the weakest cut on the album. So of course if it's true of one half-assed song Prince worked on, it's true of her entire career. Okay. It's a great track. You might want to listen also to the melodies on the Pat Leonard tracks and note how they're nothing like the melodies on the two Steve Bray tracks. It's also notable how the standard of songwriting fell in the 90s when she stopped working with Pat Leonard and stopped singing outside songs (apart from one below-par Bjork composition). Remember also that many of her best songs in the 80s were written by outsiders (Holiday, LAV, MG, LIB, PDP, etc). It's funny, though, that every single one of her collaborators, even back in the 80's, say that it was a true collaboration and that she came up with the melodies WITH them. I mean, at this point, Pat Lenoard and Steven Bray have nothing to worry about if they want to throw her under the bus and tell the world that they wrote everyone of those tunes. But they don't. They maintain that she was primarily responsible for them, but because they were musicians and able to read music, they arranged them for her. "Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you." - Kahlil Gibran | |
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Raze said: midnightmover said: It's a great track. You might want to listen also to the melodies on the Pat Leonard tracks and note how they're nothing like the melodies on the two Steve Bray tracks. It's also notable how the standard of songwriting fell in the 90s when she stopped working with Pat Leonard and stopped singing outside songs (apart from one below-par Bjork composition). Remember also that many of her best songs in the 80s were written by outsiders (Holiday, LAV, MG, LIB, PDP, etc). It's funny, though, that every single one of her collaborators, even back in the 80's, say that it was a true collaboration and that she came up with the melodies WITH them. I mean, at this point, Pat Lenoard and Steven Bray have nothing to worry about if they want to throw her under the bus and tell the world that they wrote everyone of those tunes. But they don't. They maintain that she was primarily responsible for them, but because they were musicians and able to read music, they arranged them for her. If it was just a case of them doing arrangements then they wouldn't be getting co-writing credits. In the case of Pat Leonard I've never even heard him do an interview in the last 17 years. Whatsmore, you just can't ignore the evidence of your own ears. Pat Leonard's melodies are very distinctive. That type of melody is nowhere in evidence in Madonna's 90s catalogue until Frozen which was co-written with, you guessed it, Pat Leonard. In the case of her modern day output there's no doubt the lyrics and melodies are all hers, but my god, that's nothing to be proud of. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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midnightmover said: Raze said: It's funny, though, that every single one of her collaborators, even back in the 80's, say that it was a true collaboration and that she came up with the melodies WITH them. I mean, at this point, Pat Lenoard and Steven Bray have nothing to worry about if they want to throw her under the bus and tell the world that they wrote everyone of those tunes. But they don't. They maintain that she was primarily responsible for them, but because they were musicians and able to read music, they arranged them for her. If it was just a case of them doing arrangements then they wouldn't be getting co-writing credits. In the case of Pat Leonard I've never even heard him do an interview in the last 17 years. Whatsmore, you just can't ignore the evidence of your own ears. Pat Leonard's melodies are very distinctive. That type of melody is nowhere in evidence in Madonna's 90s catalogue until Frozen which was co-written with, you guessed it, Pat Leonard. In the case of her modern day output there's no doubt the lyrics and melodies are all hers, but my god, that's nothing to be proud of. Oh, I dunno. Secret and Intervention sound pretty similar to a lot of the melodies she wrote with Pat Leonard, just to name 2. And to my ears, no matter who she's writing with, there is definitely a similarity to the melodies of her songs over the years. I can hear a "Madonna" melody in most of her songs, no matter who her collaborator is. "Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you." - Kahlil Gibran | |
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Cinnie said: and did she pronounce it "Madonner"
excuse me, that's "Mudunner"  I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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CHIC0 said: 
6 september 2007 Lily Allen was in a boisterous mood at the GQ Men Of The Year Awards last night - she heckled Madonna as she presented a gong. Madge, 49, made a surprise appearance to present interior designer pal David Collins with the Inspiration Award. But loudmouth Lily, 22, couldn't stop talking throughout Madonna's 6-minute speech. 'Lily was being rude and loud, she was chatting all of the way through and it was painfully obvious,' an onlooker tells the Daily Mail. 'At first nobody noticed but then it was evident what she was doing - even Madge gave her a look.' Lily was then reportedly ordered to go home by her label bosses. 'It was felt best that she left there before any real trouble started,' adds the source.  damn Madonna is looking really old in that picture...just look at her neck!!! Jeez she could be a grandmother!!! I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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Raze said: midnightmover said: If it was just a case of them doing arrangements then they wouldn't be getting co-writing credits. In the case of Pat Leonard I've never even heard him do an interview in the last 17 years. Whatsmore, you just can't ignore the evidence of your own ears. Pat Leonard's melodies are very distinctive. That type of melody is nowhere in evidence in Madonna's 90s catalogue until Frozen which was co-written with, you guessed it, Pat Leonard. In the case of her modern day output there's no doubt the lyrics and melodies are all hers, but my god, that's nothing to be proud of. Oh, I dunno. Secret and Intervention sound pretty similar to a lot of the melodies she wrote with Pat Leonard, just to name 2. And to my ears, no matter who she's writing with, there is definitely a similarity to the melodies of her songs over the years. I can hear a "Madonna" melody in most of her songs, no matter who her collaborator is. I'd say that's true of her work from the 90s onward, and certainly the 00s, but certainly not the 80s. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: Raze said: Oh, I dunno. Secret and Intervention sound pretty similar to a lot of the melodies she wrote with Pat Leonard, just to name 2. And to my ears, no matter who she's writing with, there is definitely a similarity to the melodies of her songs over the years. I can hear a "Madonna" melody in most of her songs, no matter who her collaborator is. I'd say that's true of her work from the 90s onward, and certainly the 00s, but certainly not the 80s. As much as I love Madonna as a fashion icon and performance artist, I have to admit you can tell when she is the main songwriter, because the songs are so poorly written. She was never a master lyricist. | |
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who cares... let the heckling continue!!!!! I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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CalhounSq said: Cinnie said: and did she pronounce it "Madonner"
excuse me, that's "Mudunner"
LOVE ♪♫♪♫ ♣¤═══¤۩۞۩ஜ۩ஜ۩۞۩¤═══¤♣ | |
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Raze said: midnightmover said: If it was just a case of them doing arrangements then they wouldn't be getting co-writing credits. In the case of Pat Leonard I've never even heard him do an interview in the last 17 years. Whatsmore, you just can't ignore the evidence of your own ears. Pat Leonard's melodies are very distinctive. That type of melody is nowhere in evidence in Madonna's 90s catalogue until Frozen which was co-written with, you guessed it, Pat Leonard. In the case of her modern day output there's no doubt the lyrics and melodies are all hers, but my god, that's nothing to be proud of. Oh, I dunno. Secret and Intervention sound pretty similar to a lot of the melodies she wrote with Pat Leonard, just to name 2. And to my ears, no matter who she's writing with, there is definitely a similarity to the melodies of her songs over the years. I can hear a "Madonna" melody in most of her songs, no matter who her collaborator is. Pat Steven Shep and all the rest say the same she wrote the lyrics and some of the melodies. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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Rodya24 said: midnightmover said: I'd say that's true of her work from the 90s onward, and certainly the 00s, but certainly not the 80s. As much as I love Madonna as a fashion icon and performance artist, I have to admit you can tell when she is the main songwriter, because the songs are so poorly written. She was never a master lyricist. all the songs she gets credits for writing are the lyrics. certain people pull out better lyrics from her, however as a pop artist you want lyrics that can reach the masses. therefore similar. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Rodya24 said: As much as I love Madonna as a fashion icon and performance artist, I have to admit you can tell when she is the main songwriter, because the songs are so poorly written. She was never a master lyricist. all the songs she gets credits for writing are the lyrics. certain people pull out better lyrics from her, however as a pop artist you want lyrics that can reach the masses. therefore similar. Yeah, Ray Of Light is one of my favorite Madonna songs, and it was written by four or five people. But who cares whether or not she is a great songwriter? Elvis never wrote his songs, and he is remembered as a icon in popular music and culture. | |
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Rodya24 said: ehuffnsd said: all the songs she gets credits for writing are the lyrics. certain people pull out better lyrics from her, however as a pop artist you want lyrics that can reach the masses. therefore similar. Yeah, Ray Of Light is one of my favorite Madonna songs, and it was written by four or five people. But who cares whether or not she is a great songwriter? Elvis never wrote his songs, and he is remembered as a icon in popular music and culture. Ray of Light started life off as a differnt song called Zephyr by differnt artists. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Rodya24 said: Yeah, Ray Of Light is one of my favorite Madonna songs, and it was written by four or five people. But who cares whether or not she is a great songwriter? Elvis never wrote his songs, and he is remembered as a icon in popular music and culture. Ray of Light started life off as a differnt song called Zephyr by differnt artists. Really? Cool. | |
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Rodya24 said: ehuffnsd said: Ray of Light started life off as a differnt song called Zephyr by differnt artists. Really? Cool. the people who aren't Madonna or William Orbit are the writers of the orginial song. it's kinda folksy sounding. Papa Don't Preach and Open Your Heart were also songs that started out as something else. But I cant' recall what their names were at the moment. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: the people who aren't Madonna or William Orbit are the writers of the orginial song. is it true they actually took it from a busker? | |
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PricelessHo said: ehuffnsd said: the people who aren't Madonna or William Orbit are the writers of the orginial song. is it true they actually took it from a busker? Si, but they've always been credited for it. "Ray of Light" is the second single by American singer Madonna from her 1998 album Ray of Light. The song was written by Madonna, William Orbit, Clive Muldoon, Dave Curtiss, and Christine Leach. It was produced by Madonna and Orbit. The original version (called "Sepheryn") was released on the first Curtiss Maldoon album from 1971. It has received the remix treatment from Victor Calderone, Sasha and William Orbit himself The song is based on the track "Sepheryn", which was originally written by Clive Muldoon and Dave Curtiss. William Orbit re-recorded the song with Christine Leach before he started working with Madonna. However it ended up being recorded by Madonna with its lyrics only changed in a few spots, but with a changed melody and instrumentation. All five (Madonna, William Orbit, Clive Muldoon, Dave Curtiss, and Christine Leach) are credited for Madonna's 1998 version of the song. The song was used by Microsoft in its 2001 advertising campaign for Windows XP, in combination with an image named Bliss. Ray of Light appeared on Madonna's 2001 Drowned World Tour, where she energetically danced around the stage. It also made an appearance on her record breaking 2006 Confessions Tour, as she played the guitar while simultaneously singing, as all her male dancers danced robotically around her. Ray of Light appeared on the setlist of Madonna's performance on Live 8 and she also performed the same song, as well as La Isla Bonita (mashed up with a popular Gypsy song of the group Gogol Bordello, which joined her live on stage), Hung Up, and Hey You during the charity concert, Live Earth. The performance of 'Ray of Light' in Live Earth was an encore of the performance on the Confessions Tour (except this time two female dancers joined the group, substituting Mirhan and Jason.[2] Madonna also performed "Ray Of Light" with Lenny Kravitz at the 1998 MTV Video Music Awards and at the 2006 Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in Indio, California. "Ray Of Light" won Best Female Video and Video of the Year at the 1998 MTV Video Music Awards [Edited 9/17/07 17:20pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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thanks for the info, ehuffnsd.
my favorite performance of that song was the one from Oprah. Very energetic and her vocals and reverbs were awesome. | |
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krayzie said: Raze said: Then I'll kindly ask you to quit trying to get us all to give Justin "credit"  I don't care about JT, all I know is Madonna sucks shit.... Period
The Madonna Army is gonna come after you if they haven't already! I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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PricelessHo said: thanks for the info, ehuffnsd.
my favorite performance of that song was the one from Oprah. Very energetic and her vocals and reverbs were awesome. no problem You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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MADONNA reinvented her delf constantly and new how to have staying power ...she may not be the best vocalist but her shows were visually interesting.
now I wonder if lily allen will stay around riding the ska sound with the 80's prom style we'll see 25 years later ..we'll see damn seems like these young bucks are disrespecting artists who paved the way they stand on right now | |
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