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Printableheartbeatocean said: EmbattledWarrior said: Now now be nice... i am and i dont like her that much... I just don't know if it's sincere or to get fame... Like Bono in all cases he is a self righteous asshole, at least band wise... musically he probably thinks he is the messiah of rock & roll (which he probably is if you look at rock now) but Bono and U2 for that matter have always had this type of stuff under their belt... bono has been talking about aids in africa since the early 80's and the slaughter in ireland etc... How the us oppress latin america... MAdonna has never done stuff like this... and i wouldnt want her to if it wasn't sincee and not because shes a falling star To be fair, she did a lot to support AIDS victims in the 80s too. She has always had a sense of compassion, but she's not an intellect or an academic. That's where her efforts fall short, I think. Well im thinking more than writing a song or singing... I mean U2 actually went to Africa, with sting, to investigate what the hell was going on there... and what they saw was engraved in them and have been spouting off about it for years doing everything in their power of celebrity to get something done... thats respectable... I cant say the same thing for madonna... i really wish i could, cause then i could give her some respect... But i just don't see it, i think this just a feeble attempt to make it seem like shes not some type of idiot savant Singing imagine and waving the palestinian flag isnt enough when u see what others have done... Sting went down into latin america... Into argentina and chile... Into countries governed by dictaterships... sang in a concert... That was against the government! He spoke spanish to the people... and really cared about what was happening. And im not saying madonna should go into Israel, and make a concert for the palestinians... im saying that if she is gonna be an activist she should at least show that she understands whats going on there... And meeting a man like Shimon Peres (who many islam people think is a murderer himself) isn't quite enough thats what im saying, know the issues... she obviously doeesn't If you really want to compare madonna to bono Bono met Yitzhak Shamir, the prime minister before Shimon And Yassir Arafat... Spoke out against both of them... saying they must work together to achieve peace... something that could've probably gotten him killed... Was able to speak to both of them intellectually without his own religion thumbing a finger at them (hes roman catholic) thats a person on a quest for world peace... I think Bono is more of a humanitarian then even the almighty michael jackson... cause hes not afraid of saying whats on his mind... I want to know What Madonna thinks of the israeli tanks shooting at thousand of palestinians every day... and how they retaliate with car bombs and primitive explosives... Would she still clutch that torah of hers so close to her chest... has nothing to do with being an academic, its just caring enough to know the issues on both sides... [Edited 9/24/07 22:51pm] I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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i need to co-sign on all that!  | |
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But in the end neither Bono nor Madonna can transform world politics. Global social, economic, and political problems stem from a structural problem that both perpetuate.
For example just because Sting speaks Spanish to the natives does not mean that the US informal empire is going to collapse in Latin America. | |
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Rodya24 said: But in the end neither Bono nor Madonna can transform world politics. Global social, economic, and political problems stem from a structural problem that both perpetuate.
For example just because Sting speaks Spanish to the natives does not mean that the US informal empire is going to collapse in Latin America. as a matter of fact... right after that concert in latina america The latinos overthrowed Pinochets and other dictaters regime.,.. im not saying it ahd anything to do with it... but whatever they were fighting for in the end worked... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: Rodya24 said: But in the end neither Bono nor Madonna can transform world politics. Global social, economic, and political problems stem from a structural problem that both perpetuate.
For example just because Sting speaks Spanish to the natives does not mean that the US informal empire is going to collapse in Latin America. as a matter of fact... right after that concert in latina america The latinos overthrowed Pinochets and other dictaters regime.,.. im not saying it ahd anything to do with it... but whatever they were fighting for in the end worked... Yes. I am sure Sting singing to the masses helped overthrow Pinochet and the countries involved in Operation Condor.  | |
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Rodya24 said: EmbattledWarrior said: as a matter of fact... right after that concert in latina america The latinos overthrowed Pinochets and other dictaters regime.,.. im not saying it ahd anything to do with it... but whatever they were fighting for in the end worked... Yes. I am sure Sting singing to the masses helped overthrow Pinochet and the countries involved in Operation Condor. Bottom line is neither madonna, or Sting or Bono are gonna get anything done... But they're jobs as entertainers is to make US aware about it... The artists point of view reflects the fans... and makes them care.... least a little bit Its the job of the artist to speak out his mind... and give power to the people thats why Sting sang "Un dia danzaremos Sobre sus tumbas, libres Un dia cantaremos Al danzar " translating to One day we'll dance on their graves, and be free, a day we'll sing as we dance... to a person being oppressed even the smallest words can be jewels of hope... He knew what was going on... did what he can... raise a concert and raise money... showed he cared... and to this day he's regarded as a deep figure in latin america... I remember i went to Chile with my ex girlfriend their and alot of people regarded very highly and thought of him in the League of as an English Che Guevera... But i digress.. All thats really true as that he cared about the cause... and thats beautiful... not because he's a celeb but because he just cared... wasn't to prepel his career... his career actually died in the states because he was speaking out against the states... Thats courage... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: heartbeatocean said: To be fair, she did a lot to support AIDS victims in the 80s too. She has always had a sense of compassion, but she's not an intellect or an academic. That's where her efforts fall short, I think. Well im thinking more than writing a song or singing... I mean U2 actually went to Africa, with sting, to investigate what the hell was going on there... and what they saw was engraved in them and have been spouting off about it for years doing everything in their power of celebrity to get something done... thats respectable... I cant say the same thing for madonna... i really wish i could, cause then i could give her some respect... I'm not here to argue various pop stars' influences on politics, but I have huge respect for Madonna. Her work is extremely political if you look at it from a feminist perspective. Her contribution to brainstorming, barnstorming sexual politics is huge - she brought 60's feminism into a new era. Deconstructed and reconstructed it. She turned women's sexuality into celebratory power and force and strength. She speaks out and risks herself constantly. Her career is based on controversy. This is why I feel people completely underrate her as an artist. They think all she wants is fame and attention, but see anyone else doing these kinds of antics? It takes major courage and she's hated for it. The contributions artists should and can make to this world is changing, raising consciousness, and questioning and investigating cultural values. This is their contribution -- it can even be considered as more important than living with the lepers like Mother Theresa did. Madonna has achieved this in flying colors. As for raising consciousness about AIDS when the subject was taboo in the U.S. -- I think other orgers can talk about this better than I can. She did more than sing a song about it. | |
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sassybritches said: heartbeatocean said: To be fair, she did a lot to support AIDS victims in the 80s too. She has always had a sense of compassion, but she's not an intellect or an academic. That's where her efforts fall short, I think. that's just it! she could do her thing without faking the intellect.  that's not to say she's not smart, her business ventures quickly stomp that idea. but she's not an academic and she's not an intellect (i've read her lyrics, for god's sake). she do what she knows OR take the time to learn about this stuff first, then speak.She is very, very smart, but not trained as an intellect. This frustrates me, because I wish she was more self-aware and could articulate her process and beliefs -- kind of the way Tori does. She would be taken so much more seriously if she could frame herself in that way, articulate her intention -- MY GOD she would be a force to be reckoned with. But as it is, she only knows how to perform, not articulate. SO EVERY context finds her performing, because that is her skill. | |
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heartbeatocean said: sassybritches said: that's just it! she could do her thing without faking the intellect. that's not to say she's not smart, her business ventures quickly stomp that idea. but she's not an academic and she's not an intellect (i've read her lyrics, for god's sake). she do what she knows OR take the time to learn about this stuff first, then speak.She is very, very smart, but not trained as an intellect. This frustrates me, because I wish she was more self-aware and could articulate her process and beliefs -- kind of the way Tori does. She would be taken so much more seriously if she could frame herself in that way, articulate her intention -- MY GOD she would be a force to be reckoned with. But as it is, she only knows how to perform, not articulate. SO EVERY context finds her performing, because that is her skill. Actuly her live shows from Blonde Ambition on are fairly good as performance art peices that reflect her views. Every single one is layered with messages and meaning. Granted since she's gone to using video screens she's be a bit more overt with them. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: heartbeatocean said: She is very, very smart, but not trained as an intellect. This frustrates me, because I wish she was more self-aware and could articulate her process and beliefs -- kind of the way Tori does. She would be taken so much more seriously if she could frame herself in that way, articulate her intention -- MY GOD she would be a force to be reckoned with. But as it is, she only knows how to perform, not articulate. SO EVERY context finds her performing, because that is her skill. Actuly her live shows from Blonde Ambition on are fairly good as performance art peices that reflect her views. Every single one is layered with messages and meaning. Granted since she's gone to using video screens she's be a bit more overt with them. That's true. People don't really know her if they only know about her music, IMO. The shows I've seen have moments that are very complex and intellectual. I guess since she's so busy making the work, I'm gonna have to be the one to write the book about it. My frustration stems from the fact that I find it hard to locate material on the inner workings of her creative process, how she gets her ideas, how they develop etc. If you know any source for this, let me know. | |
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heartbeatocean said: ehuffnsd said: Actuly her live shows from Blonde Ambition on are fairly good as performance art peices that reflect her views. Every single one is layered with messages and meaning. Granted since she's gone to using video screens she's be a bit more overt with them. That's true. People don't really know her if they only know about her music, IMO. The shows I've seen have moments that are very complex and intellectual. I guess since she's so busy making the work, I'm gonna have to be the one to write the book about it. My frustration stems from the fact that I find it hard to locate material on the inner workings of her creative process, how she gets her ideas, how they develop etc. If you know any source for this, let me know.Outside of maybe Jamie King, Christopher Ciccone, Patrick Lennoard, Stuart Price, and Michael McKnight I don't know if anyone has any real information. I would assume all of them are limited on what they can say. I think few people have paid much attention to everything that is going on with the shows. I know I like to go back and see what I missed the last time I watched one. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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heartbeatocean said: EmbattledWarrior said: Well im thinking more than writing a song or singing... I mean U2 actually went to Africa, with sting, to investigate what the hell was going on there... and what they saw was engraved in them and have been spouting off about it for years doing everything in their power of celebrity to get something done... thats respectable... I cant say the same thing for madonna... i really wish i could, cause then i could give her some respect... I'm not here to argue various pop stars' influences on politics, but I have huge respect for Madonna. Her work is extremely political if you look at it from a feminist perspective. Her contribution to brainstorming, barnstorming sexual politics is huge - she brought 60's feminism into a new era. Deconstructed and reconstructed it. She turned women's sexuality into celebratory power and force and strength. She speaks out and risks herself constantly. Her career is based on controversy. This is why I feel people completely underrate her as an artist. They think all she wants is fame and attention, but see anyone else doing these kinds of antics? It takes major courage and she's hated for it. The contributions artists should and can make to this world is changing, raising consciousness, and questioning and investigating cultural values. This is their contribution -- it can even be considered as more important than living with the lepers like Mother Theresa did. Madonna has achieved this in flying colors. As for raising consciousness about AIDS when the subject was taboo in the U.S. -- I think other orgers can talk about this better than I can. She did more than sing a song about it. Madonna is smart... Never said that she wasn't... What i am saying. That her attempting to seem politically intelligent or having some coherence is limited... Or appears to be limited... compared to others... She's not speaking her mind... as she would for her feminist disputes... The woman has balls no doubt, But in the political world we're we still reign in this quasi-machevellian domain. She's limited... Cause conventional smarts is not enough, hell neither is academic smarts... Its comprehension, digesting a matter than spewing out your thoughts... This is a whole different ball game... And if she wants to play international embassador of peace... Smiling photo ops with Shimon Peres aint gonna cut it... MAny artist appear to be a certain way, and they never are that way... I am afraid this is fake... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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Are you sure they didn't meet with the wax figure of Shimon Peres? | |
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lilgish said: Are you sure they didn't meet with the wax figure of Shimon Peres?
Nah the Wax figure of him made melted because of the evil presence... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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