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PrintableRodya24 said: sassybritches said: so? she's good at marketing. again, i'm saying people worship this woman as though she's done something...anything...special. i like her music. she's very entertaining. but she's a human being and she isn't doing anything special. it's shocking to me that in 2008 we still worship at the altar of celebrity. How dare thou criticize Madonna? She is the greatest human being on earth.   some would have ya believe it. forget the people behind the scenes who actually facilitate movements. forget the people sweating their asses off working on sustainable development for undeveloped nations.
madonna is here to save the day. i guarantee you i could have a sit down with her and she wouldn't have an intelligent thing to contribute to a conversation about NGOs, conflict in the middle east, or how to build a sustainable government.
please. credit the woman for building trends and making fun music but let's keep things in perspective. | |
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ehuffnsd said: sassybritches said: so? she's good at marketing. again, i'm saying people worship this woman as though she's done something...anything...special. i like her music. she's very entertaining. but she's a human being and she isn't doing anything special. it's shocking to me that in 2008 we still worship at the altar of celebrity. alot of her friends from the early days died. People were scared of people with AIDS, she was with Martin when he died and people were afaird to go around her because they thought she got AIDS from him. Do you even realize what it was like in the early days? Have you ever talked to the elders of gay community in SF to hear their stories?!? I can connect you with people. She risked her carear to raise money for people who were dying. The President of the US couldn't even say AIDS and Madonna, a meer entertainer, was raising Millions of dollars and visiting people dying of AIDS. you can "connect me with people?" are you even serious with that mess? i have known MANY people who are HIV+, who have died from AIDS, and who will die from it. where do you get off being so incredibly presumptuous? just because i don't think madonna is the great freakin' savior of the human race? come on, dude. she's a pop star. nothing more, nothing less. | |
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sassybritches said: ehuffnsd said: alot of her friends from the early days died. People were scared of people with AIDS, she was with Martin when he died and people were afaird to go around her because they thought she got AIDS from him. Do you even realize what it was like in the early days? Have you ever talked to the elders of gay community in SF to hear their stories?!? I can connect you with people. She risked her carear to raise money for people who were dying. The President of the US couldn't even say AIDS and Madonna, a meer entertainer, was raising Millions of dollars and visiting people dying of AIDS. you can "connect me with people?" are you even serious with that mess? i have known MANY people who are HIV+, who have died from AIDS, and who will die from it. where do you get off being so incredibly presumptuous? just because i don't think madonna is the great freakin' savior of the human race? come on, dude. she's a pop star. nothing more, nothing less.self edit nevermind. [Edited 9/17/07 17:11pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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a friend of mine called her repulsive when he saw a clip of her singing crucified on tour. | |
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PricelessHo said: a friend of mine called her repulsive when he saw a clip of her singing crucified on tour.
that was fantastic marketing for her. those who went to the show saw that she was in fact not mocking the faith but making a statement about following Christ's lead...albeit a very clumsy statement but she needed some kind of controversy. | |
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sassybritches said: PricelessHo said: a friend of mine called her repulsive when he saw a clip of her singing crucified on tour.
that was fantastic marketing for her. those who went to the show saw that she was in fact not mocking the faith but making a statement about following Christ's lead...albeit a very clumsy statement but she needed some kind of controversy. it wouldn't be Madonna without it. she doesn't even ahve to work for it any more. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: sassybritches said: that was fantastic marketing for her. those who went to the show saw that she was in fact not mocking the faith but making a statement about following Christ's lead...albeit a very clumsy statement but she needed some kind of controversy. it wouldn't be Madonna without it. she doesn't even ahve to work for it any more. it's true. everything she says and does is over analyzed. people just need to take it as entertainment and move on. confessions was a great tour and it is a testament to her ability to entertain, to do her job. it's just that our society is caught up with the bs of celebrity.  | |
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sassybritches said: ehuffnsd said: it wouldn't be Madonna without it. she doesn't even ahve to work for it any more. it's true. everything she says and does is over analyzed. people just need to take it as entertainment and move on. confessions was a great tour and it is a testament to her ability to entertain, to do her job. it's just that our society is caught up with the bs of celebrity. Madge is a performace artist and entertainer. but in the end of the day whatever distracts people from life. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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If Madonna really wanted peace in the region, surely she would have also visited the Palestinian president to discuss it. It didn't happen (not that i expected it to happen though).
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kanamit said: If Madonna really wanted peace in the region, surely she would have also visited the Palestinian president to discuss it. It didn't happen (not that i expected it to happen though).
cut her some slack. she doesn't know what or where palestine is. | |
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sassybritches said: cut her some slack. she doesn't know what or where palestine is.
 Didn't you watch IGTTYAS?
please. credit the woman for building trends and making fun music but let's keep things in perspective.
  
Ja, I see all this stuff but I find it impossible to take her very seriously with regard to politics, spirituality, "feminism" or whatever, etc. "I would say that Prince's top thirty percent is great. Of that thirty percent, I'll bet the public has heard twenty percent of it." - Susan Rogers, "Hunting for Prince's Vault", BBC, 2015 |
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CandaceS said: sassybritches said: cut her some slack. she doesn't know what or where palestine is.
Didn't you watch IGTTYAS?
please. credit the woman for building trends and making fun music but let's keep things in perspective.
Ja, I see all this stuff but I find it impossible to take her very seriously with regard to politics, spirituality, "feminism" or whatever, etc. I agree. Madonna: fashion icon and significant figure in popular music and culture -- that I agree with. As for all her work with regards to politics and religion, quite embarrassing to be frank. | |
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Rodya24 said: CandaceS said:
Ja, I see all this stuff but I find it impossible to take her very seriously with regard to politics, spirituality, "feminism" or whatever, etc. I agree. Madonna: fashion icon and significant figure in popular music and culture -- that I agree with. As for all her work with regards to politics and religion, quite embarrassing to be frank. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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Rodya24 said: CandaceS said:
Ja, I see all this stuff but I find it impossible to take her very seriously with regard to politics, spirituality, "feminism" or whatever, etc. I agree. Madonna: fashion icon and significant figure in popular music and culture -- that I agree with. As for all her work with regards to politics and religion, quite embarrassing to be frank. you'd be surprised the amount of behind the scenes fundraising Madonna has done over the past 25 years. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: Rodya24 said: I agree. Madonna: fashion icon and significant figure in popular music and culture -- that I agree with. As for all her work with regards to politics and religion, quite embarrassing to be frank. you'd be surprised the amount of behind the scenes fundraising Madonna has done over the past 25 years. have you ever seen arrested development? if not, you wouldn't get the reference but anyone who has watched the show knows i'm referring to portia de rossi's character. that's how i imagine madonna's fundraising interests to be.
seriously though, i don't doubt her interest in these matters. its her knowledge of the issues i doubt. where was she before it was hip (again) to help african nations? where was she in the past ten years regarding middle east issues? i'm sorry, her charitable causes are always all so timely. | |
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sassybritches said: ehuffnsd said: you'd be surprised the amount of behind the scenes fundraising Madonna has done over the past 25 years. have you ever seen arrested development? if not, you wouldn't get the reference but anyone who has watched the show knows i'm referring to portia de rossi's character. that's how i imagine madonna's fundraising interests to be.
seriously though, i don't doubt her interest in these matters. its her knowledge of the issues i doubt. where was she before it was hip (again) to help african nations? where was she in the past ten years regarding middle east issues? i'm sorry, her charitable causes are always all so timely. I wish these popular musicians and entertainers soon realize that in the end, their contribution to uniting the world is their music and performance. As much as I applaud their sincere efforts (I am sure some of them are sincere) to end war and hunger, one has to be an idiot to believe that Bono and Madonna will bring peace and posterity all over the world. | |
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Rodya24 said: sassybritches said: have you ever seen arrested development? if not, you wouldn't get the reference but anyone who has watched the show knows i'm referring to portia de rossi's character. that's how i imagine madonna's fundraising interests to be.
seriously though, i don't doubt her interest in these matters. its her knowledge of the issues i doubt. where was she before it was hip (again) to help african nations? where was she in the past ten years regarding middle east issues? i'm sorry, her charitable causes are always all so timely. I wish these popular musicians and entertainers soon realize that in the end, their contribution to uniting the world is their music and performance. As much as I applaud their sincere efforts (I am sure some of them are sincere) to end war and hunger, one has to be an idiot to believe that Bono and Madonna will bring peace and posterity all over the world. i always feel required to leave bono out of the conversation. i'm fairly certain once u2 disbands, bono will be working in the UN. he's done so much that goes unmentioned, which is hard to believe considering how much IS mentioned.
that's the difference between committed peeps like bono and publicity seekers like madonna. we know every thing madonna does politically and charitably speaking because she wants is to know. it feels very disingenuous and that's not saying it is, it just comes off that way. it's always a photo op. bono, on the other hand, only advertises the things that will help the causes he's working with. he does a lot of things behind the scenes that the general public is totally unaware of. | |
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ehuffnsd said: you'd be surprised the amount of behind the scenes fundraising Madonna has done over the past 25 years.
I don't doubt it. I've seen plenty of mentions here and there about things she supports, charities and political contributions. That's one thing, but jumping into the middle of Israel vs. Palestine is another. Particularly (IMHO) if the recommendation involves adding yet more religion to the mix.
BTW, your earlier comments about the first years of HIV/AIDS were right on. It was ridiculous...lots of ignorance combined with homophobia, all that crap about it being some sort of god-sent retribution or whatever.  And then the haemophilia patients got caught up and were also tarred and feathered, what a mess it all was.  "I would say that Prince's top thirty percent is great. Of that thirty percent, I'll bet the public has heard twenty percent of it." - Susan Rogers, "Hunting for Prince's Vault", BBC, 2015 |
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CandaceS said: ehuffnsd said: you'd be surprised the amount of behind the scenes fundraising Madonna has done over the past 25 years.
I don't doubt it. I've seen plenty of mentions here and there about things she supports, charities and political contributions. That's one thing, but jumping into the middle of Israel vs. Palestine is another. Particularly (IMHO) if the recommendation involves adding yet more religion to the mix.
BTW, your earlier comments about the first years of HIV/AIDS were right on. It was ridiculous...lots of ignorance combined with homophobia, all that crap about it being some sort of god-sent retribution or whatever. And then the haemophilia patients got caught up and were also tarred and feathered, what a mess it all was. it was a sad time. i'm not certain on Madge's mideast position. whether she is pro Isreal or not. i know she is proPeace i just don't know how she thinks it could be done, I don't think Sassy does either. [Edited 9/19/07 22:04pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: i'm not certain on Madge's mideast position. whether she is pro Isreal or not. i know she is proPeace i just don't know how she thinks it could be done, I don't think Sassy does either. i don't have an exact answer, though i can offer this: historically and factually speaking, israel has been the most unwilling to compromise of the two. israel wants her terms or nothing at all. israel also has the upperhand in this conflict (a couple hundred nuclear weapons, lots of military and financial support from the US, and proper military). israel and palestine need a fair and evenhanded mediator. israel should have the right to exist. this right to exist should not be at the expense of israel's neighbors, which is what we see in the israel-palestine conflict. in order to have fair and evenhanded negotiations, we need to be able to criticize israel's policies without the misuse of anti-semitism accusations. if no compromise can be made between the two parties, the US needs to step out of the picture altogether and let them go at it. if they fight it out, eventually only one side will be left. problem solved. well, problem solved for the middle east conflict. once there is any kind of stability in the middle east, the US interest in foreign oil is at risk. hence, our constant monkeywrenching in the region. instability is our friend. but i digress. the answer lies in compromise on BOTH sides. if this can't be done, the answer lies in stepping aside and letting them fight it out. | |
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sassybritches said: ehuffnsd said: i'm not certain on Madge's mideast position. whether she is pro Isreal or not. i know she is proPeace i just don't know how she thinks it could be done, I don't think Sassy does either. i don't have an exact answer, though i can offer this: historically and factually speaking, israel has been the most unwilling to compromise of the two. israel wants her terms or nothing at all. israel also has the upperhand in this conflict (a couple hundred nuclear weapons, lots of military and financial support from the US, and proper military). israel and palestine need a fair and evenhanded mediator. israel should have the right to exist. this right to exist should not be at the expense of israel's neighbors, which is what we see in the israel-palestine conflict. in order to have fair and evenhanded negotiations, we need to be able to criticize israel's policies without the misuse of anti-semitism accusations. if no compromise can be made between the two parties, the US needs to step out of the picture altogether and let them go at it. if they fight it out, eventually only one side will be left. problem solved. well, problem solved for the middle east conflict. once there is any kind of stability in the middle east, the US interest in foreign oil is at risk. hence, our constant monkeywrenching in the region. instability is our friend. but i digress. the answer lies in compromise on BOTH sides. if this can't be done, the answer lies in stepping aside and letting them fight it out. i was meaning i don't think you know Madge's pov on the Mid East. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: sassybritches said: i don't have an exact answer, though i can offer this: historically and factually speaking, israel has been the most unwilling to compromise of the two. israel wants her terms or nothing at all. israel also has the upperhand in this conflict (a couple hundred nuclear weapons, lots of military and financial support from the US, and proper military). israel and palestine need a fair and evenhanded mediator. israel should have the right to exist. this right to exist should not be at the expense of israel's neighbors, which is what we see in the israel-palestine conflict. in order to have fair and evenhanded negotiations, we need to be able to criticize israel's policies without the misuse of anti-semitism accusations. if no compromise can be made between the two parties, the US needs to step out of the picture altogether and let them go at it. if they fight it out, eventually only one side will be left. problem solved. well, problem solved for the middle east conflict. once there is any kind of stability in the middle east, the US interest in foreign oil is at risk. hence, our constant monkeywrenching in the region. instability is our friend. but i digress. the answer lies in compromise on BOTH sides. if this can't be done, the answer lies in stepping aside and letting them fight it out. i was meaning i don't think you know Madge's pov on the Mid East. i figured as much...i just wanted an excuse to mix p&r with another forum. you know, reach out to some others who don't venture into that nasty forum! | |
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sassybritches said: ehuffnsd said: i was meaning i don't think you know Madge's pov on the Mid East. i figured as much...i just wanted an excuse to mix p&r with another forum. you know, reach out to some others who don't venture into that nasty forum! well PnR isn't for the weak hearted. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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sassybritches said: snip - detailed position statementwas here  Interesting...have you read Carter's book? I did and couldn't see why it was SO controversial, so what does that say about me?!
Maybe I should try my hand at the PnR forum, but I'm afraid I'd get re-addicted to the org all over again! "I would say that Prince's top thirty percent is great. Of that thirty percent, I'll bet the public has heard twenty percent of it." - Susan Rogers, "Hunting for Prince's Vault", BBC, 2015 |
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ehuffnsd said: sassybritches said: so? she's good at marketing. again, i'm saying people worship this woman as though she's done something...anything...special. i like her music. she's very entertaining. but she's a human being and she isn't doing anything special. it's shocking to me that in 2008 we still worship at the altar of celebrity. alot of her friends from the early days died. People were scared of people with AIDS, she was with Martin when he died and people were afaird to go around her because they thought she got AIDS from him. Do you even realize what it was like in the early days? Have you ever talked to the elders of gay community in SF to hear their stories?!? I can connect you with people. She risked her carear to raise money for people who were dying. The President of the US couldn't even say AIDS and Madonna, a meer entertainer, was raising Millions of dollars and visiting people dying of AIDS. Instead of thanking a relentlessly self-serving pop star, you should be thanking the pioneering virologists, physicians and epidemiologists who raised the alarm and kept raising it even when the administration didn't listen. This was years before Madonna came around the bend. Also, Madonna definitely wasn't "risking her career" by raising money for AIDS. In that department, Elizabeth Taylor certainly has her beat. Yes, Madonna has done some good, but let's geat real. Doctors who opened clinics for HIV-infected newborns in the slums of NYC in the early 1980's are the real heros. No photo ops or press releases needed. /does not understand the mindless idolatry [Edited 9/20/07 11:41am] | |
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CandaceS said: sassybritches said: snip - detailed position statementwas here Interesting...have you read Carter's book? I did and couldn't see why it was SO controversial, so what does that say about me?!
Maybe I should try my hand at the PnR forum, but I'm afraid I'd get re-addicted to the org all over again! it was only controversial in the states. a guy who helped establish peace (for a time) in the middle east was later labeled anti-semitic because...he called israel out on her injustices. the book was not controversial anywhere else in the world. just in the good ol' us of I. i mean, us of a. | |
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VoicesCarry said: ehuffnsd said: alot of her friends from the early days died. People were scared of people with AIDS, she was with Martin when he died and people were afaird to go around her because they thought she got AIDS from him. Do you even realize what it was like in the early days? Have you ever talked to the elders of gay community in SF to hear their stories?!? I can connect you with people. She risked her carear to raise money for people who were dying. The President of the US couldn't even say AIDS and Madonna, a meer entertainer, was raising Millions of dollars and visiting people dying of AIDS. Instead of thanking a relentlessly self-serving pop star, you should be thanking the pioneering virologists, physicians and epidemiologists who raised the alarm and kept raising it even when the administration didn't listen. This was years before Madonna came around the bend. Also, Madonna definitely wasn't "risking her career" by raising money for AIDS. In that department, Elizabeth Taylor certainly has her beat. Yes, Madonna has done some good, but let's geat real. Doctors who opened clinics for HIV-infected newborns in the slums of NYC in the early 1980's are the real heros. No photo ops or press releases needed. /does not understand the mindless idolatry [Edited 9/20/07 11:41am] actully I honour people like Sr Florance Nightmare, RN, and Sr Roz Erection who wrote Play Fair the first sexpositive pamplet in 1982 that coined the term "Safer Sex." Sr Florance was the first person with AIDS to appear on cover a National Magazine people like Sr Boom Boom and Sr Viscisous Power Hungry Bitch who orgianized the first Candle AIDS Vigile all the Nuns of the Above who died of HIV like Sr X and Rev Mother. Sr Visicious and Sr Lily who organized the Just Say Nope to Pope campaign to protest JP2 stance on condoms. i know who the real heros of the war are. http://www.thesisters.org/sistory.html http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Indulgence [Edited 9/20/07 12:42pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: VoicesCarry said: Instead of thanking a relentlessly self-serving pop star, you should be thanking the pioneering virologists, physicians and epidemiologists who raised the alarm and kept raising it even when the administration didn't listen. This was years before Madonna came around the bend. Also, Madonna definitely wasn't "risking her career" by raising money for AIDS. In that department, Elizabeth Taylor certainly has her beat. Yes, Madonna has done some good, but let's geat real. Doctors who opened clinics for HIV-infected newborns in the slums of NYC in the early 1980's are the real heros. No photo ops or press releases needed. /does not understand the mindless idolatry [Edited 9/20/07 11:41am] actully I honour people like Sr Florance Nightmare, RN, and Sr Roz Erection who wrote Play Fair the first sexpositive pamplet in 1982 that coined the term "Safer Sex." Sr Florance was the first person with AIDS to appear on cover a National Magazine people like Sr Boom Boom and Sr Viscisous Power Hungry Bitch who orgianized the first Candle AIDS Vigile all the Nuns of the Above who died of HIV like Sr X and Rev Mother. Sr Visicious and Sr Lily who organized the Just Say Nope to Pope campaign to protest JP2 stance on condoms. i know who the real heros of the war are. [Edited 9/20/07 11:54am] I'm sure. | |
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VoicesCarry said: ehuffnsd said: actully I honour people like Sr Florance Nightmare, RN, and Sr Roz Erection who wrote Play Fair the first sexpositive pamplet in 1982 that coined the term "Safer Sex." Sr Florance was the first person with AIDS to appear on cover a National Magazine people like Sr Boom Boom and Sr Viscisous Power Hungry Bitch who orgianized the first Candle AIDS Vigile all the Nuns of the Above who died of HIV like Sr X and Rev Mother. Sr Visicious and Sr Lily who organized the Just Say Nope to Pope campaign to protest JP2 stance on condoms. i know who the real heros of the war are. [Edited 9/20/07 11:54am] I'm sure. i'm sorry what do you mean by that? You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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she's insane | |
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