I need advice on this. I only had the chance to listen to Rick's music until the Reflections compilation...From what I read online, after 1984, Rick started to lose it. Is this claim true?

Sort of. If you like cheesy 80s sounds the next following three albums should be just fine perceived from that angle at the very least. But I think they are also that kind material that appeals to people who are into curiosity values and can also hear something interesting in the sounds of a musician indeed "starting to lose it". In the right context that can be beautiful and appealing too.

"Glow" is not bad (and the only post Reflections album I own).

Moonchild and Glow are good songs. I really havent payed attention to the other songs Mary J sampled Moonchild for her hit single "Love Is All We Need"

Yes, it's true. Beginning with the "Glow" album, Rick was much weaker than he had been before. Some of it comes from Rick "losing it", but some of it also comes with the era it was made in which was the late 1980s. Those were the crossover years and everyone was making much weaker music than their previous work during those years....Cameo, Midnight Star, The Barkays, The Gap Band....hell, even Prince.

vainandy said:

Prince????? If you call Purple Rain, Around The World In A Day, Parade, SOTT and LoveSexy "weak".

I wasn't referring to "Purple Rain". I was referring to the albums starting with "Around The World In A Day". All of them are good albums but they are far weaker than previous albums like "Dirty Mind", "Controversy", "1999", or "Purple Rain".

I'll give Prince credit though, unlike everyone else, he didn't let crossing over to pop influence his future albums. He got all artsy/fartsy and not only pissed off his R&B fans, but his pop fans as well. However, I notice he didn't get all artsy/fartsy until he had conquered the pop world. Had he done it earlier when he was known only in the R&B world, he would have become history real quick.

Unless you're a real fan, they are not worth getting. Most of them are mediocre at best. Stick with Rick's earlier stuff and you'll be just fine

vainandy said:

Intersting that u think he got "artsy" after PR. To me, he didn't get artsy, but he tried something new with each project. I beleive his first 2 projects were strictly to get some "major" attention. He managed to achieve that with IWBYL. IWBYL was a pretty big with both pop and r&b audiences. He then took it to a "rock"/"edgy" level with DM. Come on, if you don't think wearing panties and stockings with a trench coat isn't artsy for a 23 year old...I don't know what is.

I think with albums like ATWIAD and Parade, P was heavily influenced Wendy and Lisa's musical taste. You can really hear the classical music influence as well as the jazz stuff. Some of it was just amazing.

daPrettyman said:

dont even bother trying to argue logic with andy on this subject.

sosgemini said:

I know....he's not very logical at times.....just kidding!

The "Dirty Mind" era was simply Prince learning to be shocking. He had previously come off tour with Rick James and had seen the response that shock value had gotten him. Prince had been fairly tame before that tour. Shock sells and Prince was doing what it took to make a name for himself and to stand out from the other artists of the era.

I agree that Wendy and Lisa had a big influence on him after "Purple Rain" for the artsy/fartsy worst. As I said before, the albums were great but Prince was no longer "Prince". What I mean is, he was a completely different sounding artist than the one we had grown up with. He was doing retro "experimental" stuff and copying eras like the 1960s and 1970s that had gone out of style. He had gone from sounding like what we thought the future would sound like to sounding like his own little version of the past. Yeah, looking back at it now, some of the stuff from that period was very genious and much better than his later work in the 1990s and today. However, when you are a teenager in the late 1980s and looking forward to "badass" Prince that you know and love to put out a new album, you are not happy at all when you get "artsy/fartsy" Prince experimenting with different things.
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[Edited 9/13/07 14:09pm]

paisleypark4 said:

Agreed. I especially love "Moonchild"-it's one of my fave Rick songs ever.

Yeah, a lot of Prince's older R&B fans were simply sticking around with each album hoping Prince would "snap out of it" and return to his old self. He gave them a few enjoyable tracks to keep them interested but everyone was basically waiting for him to return to his old self.

As for the pop fans, they only knew him from "Little Red Corvette" to "Purple Rain" so a lot of them dropped him instantly. Unlike the older R&B fans who had been into Prince for years, it's easy to drop someone instantly when you haven't been into them very long. R&B fans were trying to give him another chance.

Where Prince found his longevity is when he picked up his European fans. They loved all that late 80s stuff more than the early 80s stuff and are probably the reason he didn't return to his old style.

As for Rick, "Glow" was the best of his late 80s albums, "The Flag" was the worst, and "Wonderful" was a little better. I have a rare 45 from 1989 called "This Magic Moment" which is a remake of the old song. It has that same vibe as the "Wonderful" album so if Rick had made an album in 1989, it would have probably been more of that same type of stuff.
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[Edited 9/13/07 23:12pm]

vainandy said:

What about the " Kickin it" or something album, is it any good?

I think it's called "Kickin". That's an unreleased album. I don't have it. I'm assuming it would sound similar to "Wonderful" since it was recorded a year or two afterwards.

Rick's late 80's albums are worth checking out, Glow is clearly the best of them, The Flag was good also, and deslpite what people say, I really like that album, it has some good songs on it, its a lot more electric though, he got away from the SCB sound, but it's worth checking out, Wonderful to me is his worst album, it has some good songs, but by then I think he was so coked out it affected his music. The unreleased Kickin' album was good as well, it is comparable to Wonderful, but it is better to me. I think he would have comeback around after that album, but unfortunately he never got the chance. And if you guys haven't heard his last two albums 'Urban Rhapsody' and 'Deeper Still' get them, 'Urban Rhapsody' is an excellent album, just shy of a masterpiece, Deeper Still is also good, but again it was more of a 'comeback' album, so it has some funk on it, but it's not pure funk, he took some chances and kind of stepped away from his past works, but it is worth buying.

vainandy said:

'Kickin' is an unreleased album that Rick recorded in 1989 for Reprise/Warner Bros. Records.Apparently,the label wasn't too impressed with it and Rick left the label a short time later.The album was originally scheduled to be released in spring 1990.Here's the tracklist:

Kickin'
Day And Night
Teach Me
Black and White
Runaway Love
School Me
Anything And Everything
You Got It Real Good
Get With It
Rock And Roll Eyes

During the recording sessions for this album,there was alot of friction between Rick and his Warner bosses.They wanted to bring in outside producers (such as Al B.Sure) for this project,but Rick refused.