Maybe you should ask the 'White' people why are they so busy promoting it, AND lovin' it, in their own terms...

And for those rappers who take a deep appreciation to the rap music it’s their way of demonstrating manhood, and a way of establishing power in such a racist, corrupt society that has altered in many ways what that means today, but that still has has the same root AND to all those who buy the albums OUTSIDE of what seems to be a 'false reality' created by these rap songs, it's their way of trying desperately to imitate it, for very sad, selfish, ignorant, jealous, and wannabe reasons, that kind of a world.

THERE.
[This message was edited Sun Oct 6 20:43:23 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

I think this Topic was wrong to bring up.White People more than any other Group of People Buy Rap&live through it.why even ask this Question when the Products the Rappers are mentioning are European Created? would this even be asked if African Jewlery,or Kinte CLothes were being sported with Bling from the Motherland?

I don't even really listen to too much of today's rap.I prefer the old stuff from the 80s...Run-DMC's 'Raising Hell',Whodini,LL Cool J's first couple of albums,etc.

feltbluish said:

Please add:
Dungeon Family
Talib Kweli
Dead Prez

mistermaxxx said:

True, white people buy rap as well... and they annoy me just as much as anyone... anyone who tries to flaunt boats, cars, jewelry and all that stuff and makes videos for no other purpose is annoying as hell.

The point I was getting at is that EVERY SINGLE video that I saw contained the exact elements that I mentioned.

I guess my biggest problem with it is that there is absolutely NO creativity or artistic merit in any of these videos.

ALSO, as I have mentioned, I have not seen any white videos in the past few years, so I don't know what happens in them. I can easily say that this has nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with me being a crotchedy old prick who remembers the days when videos were really stupid, but not blatantly materialistic pieces of shit aimed at directing fans to desire unattainable status symbols.

In short, ALL videos suck... BUT I only saw the RAP videos.

MTV wouldnt even play black videos until it dawned on those racist idiots how much money white kids would spend on black music. Now the biggest selling rapper is a white boy. Something is very wrong w/ that.

classic77 said:

Essence said:

Yes, all of these are good, but don't forget Jurassic 5!

Obviously, the rap shown on MTV is not representative of the entire genre, but unfortunately it is the only kind that gets played. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I think we can agree that Mtv has a knack for popularizing the lowest common denominator, whether that translates into acts like Britney Spears, N'Sync, Eminem, the gangsta-materialistic-thug rappers or groups like Korn. I'm not knocking whatever talent such acts have. But, so much of what steers a network like Mtv is corporate guesswork based on demographics and marketing consultants' recommendations.

Record labels take notice and groom their up-and-coming acts to have enough in common (visually, musically) with those "popular" acts to guarantee heavy rotation, and then enough "originality" to be considered cutting edge.

Not to mention the spiritual connotation to me: keeping our kids locked into sex objectification, materialism, blind rebellion and godlessness. How better to keep young people from discovering who God has destined them to be?

I have to agree with 4LOVE. I believe many were raised with nothing and now they all have to show you what they got to make them look as good as the next guy. It's kind of sad really. It's just stuff and we can all accumulate stuff at any given time. I believe that many rappers (male and female) have low self esteem. I firmly believe that anyone that has to get up on stage and show the materalistic things they own or their big fake titties really have no self esteem at all. Look at someone like Paul McCartney. The man is so rich it's sickening, but you don't see him flaunting all his gold jewelery or fast cars. Prince doesn't flaunt his possessions either. Only people with little talent and low self esteem feel the need to flaut their material things. IMO

from my observations, mostly the dance vidos are materialsitic. there are several videos especially on mtv2, which contents are mainly about black people suffering, lost of their parent,etc. Their videos are not materialistic but 2-d are conveys sad images.

my brother likes Jurassic-5 and that has rubbed on me a bit.

the whole materialistic videos are done basically the same, the same poses, the same material possessions,the same everything. as my english teahcer was stating: there are a few videos which is different and unique. mostly, they people who look basically the same posing the same on the floor or standing up.

4LOVE, MrMaxx & a few others made some very valid points, onto which I'll expand & add a little:


The bottom line is, above all else,
MONEY.

Most of these rappers are (or want the world to think they are) from "the ghetto" & true, coming from that environment you have little if anything.. of MATERIAL worth. When you have little or anything, you starve to have something of value, which in this country equates to (for too many people) that material wealth. Because someone somewhere (in a position of power) think that this is what the mass market wants, this is the garbage that's fed to the market. Rather than try something "different" or "experimental, most hip-hop "artists" repeat the same boring, mysogenic (sp) themes that they are told will sell. They make their money, live their own lives of excess, & then, if they're "lucky" they too will have their own episode of "Behind The Music" on VH-1.

I acknowledge that different generations have their own tastes & whatnot, but that doesn't change the cold, hard truth that most "popular music" is much inferior to the music of the, say, mid=80s & before.


It's a vicious circle that seems to show no signs of changing:
copy whatever is "hot" at that moment &/or remake/sample older (BETTER) music & then get paid.


Sigh.

kisscamille said:

Most rappers, NOW, are not POOR. Many of them are middle class, they are not all from the GHETTO, so please don't believe the hype.



It's a part of Capitalism that influences the market and individuals alike. In many books about hip-hop and rap artists, it explains that rappers use money, cars, and woman to establish their masculinity in a society where it has otherwise been stripped. Rap music has come so far from that now, but where it's from will never change as it influences others also, as it shows men benefitting from it, if you know what I mean. The woman on the other hand, show their bodies proudly, as a way to demonstrate power. Some feminists say they are exploiting themselves, others say that that they are actually showing that power and control over men.

Secondly, the problem is that many of the people in the inner city communities who are the ones who really identify, created, and are mostly influenced from the music never do get to accumulate those fast cars and fly clothes by any good means, for oh so MANY reasons. But thank goodness, that's changed a bit lately, while some are still in a trance.




EERrr!!! I have to disagree. They're are very much just expressing themselves just like anyone else in America and abroad (those who write lyrics, the real truthful ones, not the made-up ones(?)...but don't confuse the burden of these type of reprsentations with some sort of low kind of a culture. It actually serves as an outlet with many ups and downs, like any other thing. THESE RAPPERS, actually feel better about themselves than other people, because they're actually 'making it', for instance, by getting fame, and money, (and is that all?!). Trust me, the people they represent that are living, or live something sort of close to how hip-hop culture makes it seem, continue to fight the struggle WITHOUT ever having a low self-esteem.




It's a different culture, different lifestyle. Rappers do have talent, and so do these women you see in videos. They just use it in the wrong way sometimes. Jewlery, fast cars, and women is what is used to show some kind of power that sometimes they don't even really have. If not, then how else, in a capitalist and racist society? There are other means, but as far as the entertainment industry goes...

I just have to let these things out, can't let it just go by...
[This message was edited Tue Oct 8 21:14:35 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

Ice-Nine I for one like Rap music and the Image of Fast Cars and fast Scantily dressed women. Materialistic? They are simply showing off their Wealth. What's wrong with that? I happen to think the women are not Classless and the rappers are Talented in their way of singing. Maybe you don't like their style,but not all rappers are the same and not all have a Violent type of image. There are a lot of Good Rappers out there.

IceNine said:

Maybe it's time you'd watch them. It spells, sings, and pictures mostly one word: SEX.

The materialism is there, maybe mostly behind the video, and not in your face like the rap videos on MTV and BET, but it's there.

Oh yeah, and do they get their SEX STATUS symbols. It's all the same shi*, really.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 8 21:15:54 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

TheResistor said:

You are dead on, my friend.

Case and point, that newest Eve video featuring Alicia Keys, "I just Wanna Rock You", or whatever it's called, is filmed in a house in Miami Beach (I think it's the point between Miami Beach and Hollywood/Ft.Lauderdale) that the owner (like the whole slew of rich Miami homeowners) rents for $3000+ per day plus overtime. I did an advertising job there in 1997, and I remember the owners were terribly unpleasant, and had all sorts of fascist like instructions in terms of our behavior in the house, and we were a pretty conservative bunch! In the case of a rap video being filmed there I would not doubt for a second that only a small portion of the film crew, plus Eve (the boyfriend character, MAYBE) and Alicia were the only ones allowed to even use the bathrooms within the house! It also looks like the house was only booked for "interrior access" for a couple of shots with Eve (alone), which could be shot in a half a day to save money on the shoot (which, fiscally speaking, is not a bad idea for Eve's sake,) but, it is a bit disappointing because, it's almost as if everyone (the record labels, the production companies, the directors, the artists- all of them) are all
complicit in perpetuating this myth that EVERYBODY in the music world is living THAT large, hangers on included. I mean, do you know how much it COSTS to by a house in Golden Beach? And on top of that, the neighborhood is COMPLETELY quiet and conservative- and if I remember correctly, the speed limit there is like, 20 mph- with a police car sitting at every 4 block interval on opposite sides for the complete stretch of the neighborhood (it's really tiny). You can't even sneeze there without police stopping your vehicle to check you out! Also, that Eve video is so unrealistic in the party scenes, because there isn't a snowball's chance in hell for a bunch of young people to be having some ghetto fabulous party in that part of town...first of all, all those party guests would have nowhere to park on Collins Avenue because the street (where these homes sit) barely has two lanes. In addition, this area is full of retirees and RECLUSIVE jet-setters- any noise generated from some hip, happening party would have the neighbors calling 5-0 because of noise ordinance violations. I think
that if the video director or record label had enough creative vision, the video could just have well been shot
in a more realistic location to get the same effect for the girl meets boy vibe. They are unfairly duping the record buying public into also buying this myth that all rappers are rollin', and I personally find that marketing tactic gross.

Ice-Nine you gotta listen to DMX and Fabulous. They are Great.

I didn't read any previous posts, and don't plan on anyone reading my post, but for those that don't know what the fuck they are talking about, if u do u'd get a better idea. For an extreme fan of underground rap and watching locals going nationwide, I know it works like this:
a lot of rappers are on the come up and are poor, most of the rap i listen to are underground where they have their own e-mail & street addresses given out to anyone who's interested in buying cds and tapes, no videos and no radio promotion whatsoever, and if.. very little prob only local. But regional wise if they hit it big somehow, then the big companies bring the lure, so now they are on a national level for # of albums signed in the contract, now it's their chance to get wealthy, so how do they get themselves wealthy? By being portrayed as rich ballers with rented ...nearly everything, and rap about how rich they are, yes, sometimes forced to sell-out but it is understandable if it's a way to make a lot more money than before, cuz the mainstream doesn't relate to raps about realism and everyday struggles in life, they want something catchy and sometimes corny. If the video fits the image and the style of the song, then alot of mostly young people will buy their albums just for that 1 or 2 singles. And therefore, the once poor rappers they were will be a little richer by false representation of themselves, and if the single HITS BIG, then they'll get much richer. And if they suck on the next album(s), then it's get the fuck off the big label and back to the indies or fade into obscurity. So don't get it wrong, most rappers nowdays view RAP MUSIC as A WAY TO GET PAID, anything for better living conditions. Yeah the westcoast and eastcoast got the most fame, but watchu know bout dat dirty south? Don't think the dirty south is full of bullshit, check out UGK, Z-Ro, Tommy Wright III, E.S.G., Skaface Al Kapone, Pastor Troy, L.O.G., Young Bleed, 8ball & MJG, Triple 6 Mafia, just to name a few. Worldwide bitch! http://down-south.com read in 85 countries! R.I.P. DJ Screw & all the fallen soldiers

Even though their are other rappers who do have integrity from Mos Def to The Roots, but because negativity sells units reord labels don't give them the time of day cause they can't control them. Hence the increaase in materialistic videos. IMO some of today's rappers are the modern minstrals doing what there masters are telling them to do (and lets face the facts here the music biz is owned and controlled by white people and even though some black artists have made a good living...its CRUMBS compared to the profits the labels reap) and thus reinforcing the notion that ALL black men are weed smoking thugs and all black women are sex-starved hoes! They are living a lie, cause most of them don't own big mansions or their master recordings and they rent out their jewerlly. I recommend that u watch Spike's Bambolzed (sp) to get what I'm talking about!