Hey ... don't talk about Master P and No Limit Records, you got it.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Or WHAT ...?

Najee said:

All call my boys up from the NO and start some trouble, ya heard me!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

And once I get them some government jobs, they'll all run away like neutered kittens.
[Edited 9/3/07 16:09pm]

Alright, back to the topic.


I get what you're saying and Master P starting this whole thing, and you may be right. P was a pretty big force in the Hip-Hop game from about 95 to 2000. More people might take from P's bidness smart then his music and what "Beats By the Pound" produced.


Along with Master P, you gotta look and Manie Fresh at Cash Money Records, and the Booty Bass sound out of Miami.

Najee said:

Yu might be right.

I think No Limit realy changed arounf early 1998 (more specifically the producers "Beats by the Pound")


Listen to Snoops "Woof" and Silkk the Shockers "It Ain't My Fault" both from 1998

Woof http://youtube.com/watch?v=gHCDllTiMuo
It Ain'y My Faulthttp://youtube.com/watch?v=K1fx02MANo8


And then check out their earlier material from 97 and earlier:

Heaven for a Gansta (1997) http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eu1y58hzEEM
the Shocker (1996) http://youtube.com/watch?v=p99EIbi6DIY
Ganstafied (1996) http://youtube.com/watch?v=jcxn7D1P1mc
Moobin' through the Hood (1995) http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Byc04XlAkM


Their earlier material was produced better, hell Master P had a couple of musicians under No Limit. But once they signed that deal to Priority in January of 1998, it was all down heel. They started released albums every other week, I thinnk in 98 alone No Limit released 20 albums. The more releasing the more material you have to produce. Since it was so much , they did the cheapeast way possible.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

don't make me call some people from Richmond CA He still hasn't been back since they ran him out

To me, THIS is still a hip-hop classic album:



But for Vainandy, THIS is Shit-hop 101! I was honest to him by bring this album up in an old thread about why & how the tempo in hip-hop started to slow down.

G-Funk (a genre invented by Dr. Dre, DJ Quik, & Warren G) is really George Clinton/Bootsy Collins' P-Funk played at a downtempo with highly compressed drum beats, thicker synth bass riffs, and plently of to smoke.

TonyVanDam said:

I also mentioned, in a separate thread, the irony that vain's beloved funk laid the groundwork for this album.

No, the founding father for wack rap is Puffy. Plain and simple. The very moment he decided to fancy himself an MC was the beginning of the end of Hip Hop and the start of "Rap". His many, many, many samples (Obvious from the Biggie tracks) is what started the copy-cats of what you hear today. Puff came with no originality and he was also the starter of the Bling-inspired rap era.(Shiny suits, anyone?)




And remember..... Puffy brought us Mase. Nuff said.

Look at that bitch-made mothafucka.

All Master P did as kinda combine Suge's thug vibe with Puffy's bling vibe and added some dirty south flavor.
[Edited 9/3/07 22:26pm]

MuthaFunka said:

That fool's IQ made a blind snail look fast

Najee said:

Regardless of his R&B contributions, Puffy's STILL responsible for the start of the downfall of Hip Hop and the rise of the shit we hear today known SIMPLY as Rap.

MuthaFunka said:

Well, I wasn't praising P. Diddy (and I'm missing the R&B reference certainly, because I said pop -- as white-dominated -- music markets). I'm countering your comments with Mase as a discovery vs. Biggie Smalls (who is considered one of the most respected, prominent and revered of the rap MCs), Faith Evans (an above-average vocalist with some level of success and credibility) and 112 (a decent vocal act).
[Edited 9/3/07 23:39pm]

Najee said:

Only those (and I'm not saying you) that truly don't know Hip-Hop consider Biggie as one the best/top MCs ever. Biggie was 1-dimensional. The reason he took off was because he copied gangsta rap and then Puffy combined it with the Bling-shiny suit steelo and the complete sample of an old hit. Biggie was more of a "generated act" than "style and skills MC".

And I don't let people slide. Puffy brought us Mase and THEN brought us Loon. Puffy needs to be held responsible for those weak ass rappers, including himself.

Najee said:

I was already disilusioned with R&B by the mid to late 90s so I'd stopped paying attention, but my memory of 112 is that they were a pretty shit group who made really weak music. The tracks I heard of theirs I wouldn't even call music. Just casio beats and cheap sounds with some pointless singing on it.

MuthaFunka said:

Whoa easy there tiger!
I know some absolute hip hop heads that adore biggie. These are the type of guys that I can look through their collection and barely find anything I've heard of. That's kind of the thing that's different about biggie. He seems to have universal appeal (between passing fans and the hardcore).
Within his 2 albums he covered more stylistically than just about any MC. Hell, he toasted Bone Thugs on their own style of track on his second album.
He painted some fantastic vivid imagery with his lyrics. Try "skys the limit", "i got a story to tell", "niggas bleed", "warning", everyday struggle".
These aren't sampling "hits".

As for "copying gangsta rap", please listen to "ready to die". That shit almost defines gangsta rap. Right in next to "straight outta compton" and "chronic".
In fact it's probably the best of the lot IMO.
I almost have to laugh at the one dimensional comment!
He only released 2 albums and they are "ready to die" from '94 and "life after death" from 97'. Anything other than those 2 albums are bullshit, trying to make money off him after he passed.


As for puffy. Yeah I agree, he really fucked it up by bringing the focus to simple rhymes about bullshit and bling!

_

nd33 said:

I'm leaning towards nd33 here. Biggie's lyrics were often insightful and his delivery and flow were clever. He was a great MC in his own right.

The death of Christopher Wallace made Sean Combs. Period. Sean Combs almost basked in the aftermath of his friend's death. That's how he got over.

midnightmover said:

If those dude - at the peak of their popularity - had walked down the middle of the street in NY, L.A. or Anywhere, USA, NO ONE would even know who they were.

MuthaFunka said:

Am I the only one who didn't know the difference between 112, Next, and Jagged Edge?

nd33 said:

As I was reading your post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until I

read THIS:

That's where I stopped reading.

If I were you, I'd sit this debate out, playa.

namepeace said:

Biggie was a decent storyteller and a decent MC. His flow was nasally and garbled at times. He didn't impress me and he easily the most overrated rapper in Hip-Hop history.

bboy87 said:

MuthaFunka said:

Glad to see it's not just me.

MuthaFunka said:

Really? I'd concede that Biggie is a tad overrated, but, not THE most overrated. That could go to any number of post-Biggie/'Pac MCs. And maybe 'Pac himself, to the degree that both he and Biggie are great MCs but not really among the very best of the best per se.

namepeace said:

As it relates to public perception and reality, Biggie is the most overrated rapper of all time. His overall skills never matched his deserving of the accolades and the popularity. His timing was great but he was a Puffy-generated act more so than a Hip-Hop artist. The same way Puffy created Mase and the same way Puffy tried to create Loon.