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PrintableHarlepolis said: Well, Flo founded the group,,,so that ought to give her the 'lead' title even if she stayed in the background.
Much like Otis Williams and The Temptations' case 
With Florence though, at least from Berry's view, you can't mold her voice,,,,with Diane, you could. Exactly like the confrontation scene between Curtis & Deena(when he told her that he put her on the lead for not having a "voice with a personality"). True, I can see why people would say she was the original lead singer since she DID form the group, she DID give them their name and she helped the Supremes sell those records with those beautiful vocals in the background. On Supremes records pre-Cindy Birdsong, you could hear Flo LOUD AND CLEAR. Mary was also in the middle and often the odd one out and of course there was Diane. With Martha, no fuss is ever raised about her since she DID form the Vandellas, she DID name them the Vandellas, and she was the lead from 1962 to 1972 so everyone knew she was the leader of the group. With Diane, it's a very different story because of how they first came about and what happened once she took a more prominent lead. In that way, she gets more hate on her than they would Martha or Smokey. | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when Berry moved the label to LA in the early 70s. You could tell she was DEEPLY hurt by that when you watch the "Standing In The Shadows of Motown" movie. The woman was and STILL is strongly attached to the motown legacy and ol' days - a dark trait from the cancer sign I guess lol they don't let go easily. It was a long and brooding thing between Martha and Berry. Martha was one of the first Motown stars to openly criticize everything Berry was doing. She didn't like it when she and the Vandellas weren't allowed to do their own stuff, upset when Motown gave all the promotion to the Supremes (though it could've been more of a cover to make Diane THE female star of Motown though Martha and Mary came before her), then when Berry gave all his attention to Diane and not to Martha as he used to, she started to really HATE him, a hate that built up to Motown leaving Detroit for Los Angeles in the 1970s. After that Martha was like "to hell with that midget motherfucker". You know Ms. Reeves was RAW, she would say ANYTHING! 
Martha got her revenge on Berry in 1983 shortly before attending "Motown 25". She was allowed to have royalties and Vandellas records from 1963 to 1972 have been billed as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas rather than just Martha and the Vandellas. That actually was a name change in 1967 because of what happened with Diana Ross and the Supremes though it probably didn't raise much of a fuss. You know what was so ironic though, between 1967 and 1968, when the Supremes struggled on the charts as Diana Ross and the Supremes pre-"Love Child", the Vandellas as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas briefly outsold them with "Jimmy Mack" and "Honey Chile". Then Martha had some psychological problems and that briefly disbanded the group, sent Rosalind "Roz" Ashford packing and after bringing on her sister Lois and Sandra Tilley, Martha carried on until Motown exited out of Detroit. Such a shame no one paid attention to her as a solo artist, I think with the right promotion (if she'd been given Natalie Cole's records, she'd be right up there with Aretha and Diane I feel). What psychological problems? 
Wow,,,,I'm in the dark here about this! | |
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Love this duet with Miss Dusty Springfield:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...9EscS9B8iw Martha's voice makes me  | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: It was a long and brooding thing between Martha and Berry. Martha was one of the first Motown stars to openly criticize everything Berry was doing. She didn't like it when she and the Vandellas weren't allowed to do their own stuff, upset when Motown gave all the promotion to the Supremes (though it could've been more of a cover to make Diane THE female star of Motown though Martha and Mary came before her), then when Berry gave all his attention to Diane and not to Martha as he used to, she started to really HATE him, a hate that built up to Motown leaving Detroit for Los Angeles in the 1970s. After that Martha was like "to hell with that midget motherfucker". You know Ms. Reeves was RAW, she would say ANYTHING!
Martha got her revenge on Berry in 1983 shortly before attending "Motown 25". She was allowed to have royalties and Vandellas records from 1963 to 1972 have been billed as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas rather than just Martha and the Vandellas. That actually was a name change in 1967 because of what happened with Diana Ross and the Supremes though it probably didn't raise much of a fuss. You know what was so ironic though, between 1967 and 1968, when the Supremes struggled on the charts as Diana Ross and the Supremes pre-"Love Child", the Vandellas as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas briefly outsold them with "Jimmy Mack" and "Honey Chile". Then Martha had some psychological problems and that briefly disbanded the group, sent Rosalind "Roz" Ashford packing and after bringing on her sister Lois and Sandra Tilley, Martha carried on until Motown exited out of Detroit. Such a shame no one paid attention to her as a solo artist, I think with the right promotion (if she'd been given Natalie Cole's records, she'd be right up there with Aretha and Diane I feel). What psychological problems?
Wow,,,,I'm in the dark here about this! Sometime around 1968 or 1969, I'm not sure, Martha was starting to use prescription pills for aches or something. Well the pills started to look good to her that she went on a drug addiction much like Elvis but that add with her drinking massive amounts of alcohol led her to act all crazy especially considering how the grueling tours, recording schedule mishaps and Berry's overlooking her had her all messed up. One night, Martha lost it and had a nervous breakdown in her hotel room before a concert and she was rushed to a mental hospital where she had to be institutionalized. It was a blow to the Vandellas' career since they had just done the Copacabana (to massive success though their live album from the show has yet to be released), they had finished a successful world tour in Japan and everything. The Vandellas had to disband before Martha was well again to continue. When the Vandellas came back in early 1970, Martha had Lois Reeves - who replaced Betty Kelly in 1967, and Sandra Tilley formerly of the Orlons and the Velvelettes in the place of Rosalind "Roz" Ashford and they continued into 1973. After they disbanded, Martha struggled with a solo career that had critical success but no commercial fortune from it. I think she finally cleaned herself up from her drug addiction in 1977 and since has been a born-again Christian. She's been sober since. | |
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This turned into a very interesting thread indeed  It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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Harlepolis said: Love this duet with Miss Dusty Springfield:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...9EscS9B8iw Martha's voice makes me Martha once said about performing in London that she knew she had made it to the top after going over there. She always said performing with Dusty was her biggest highlight. Those two were friends for over 30 years before Dusty's death in '99. Dusty was actually influenced by Martha! You don't hear it often but she loved the Motown sound and soul music in particular. She said Martha and Aretha had better voices than she did, lol. In fact, one of Martha & the Vandellas' best songs, "A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knocking Everyday)" was something of a Motown/sixties standard. Dusty AND Tina Turner covered the song. | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: What psychological problems?
Wow,,,,I'm in the dark here about this! Sometime around 1968 or 1969, I'm not sure, Martha was starting to use prescription pills for aches or something. Well the pills started to look good to her that she went on a drug addiction much like Elvis but that add with her drinking massive amounts of alcohol led her to act all crazy especially considering how the grueling tours, recording schedule mishaps and Berry's overlooking her had her all messed up. One night, Martha lost it and had a nervous breakdown in her hotel room before a concert and she was rushed to a mental hospital where she had to be institutionalized. It was a blow to the Vandellas' career since they had just done the Copacabana (to massive success though their live album from the show has yet to be released), they had finished a successful world tour in Japan and everything. The Vandellas had to disband before Martha was well again to continue. When the Vandellas came back in early 1970, Martha had Lois Reeves - who replaced Betty Kelly in 1967, and Sandra Tilley formerly of the Orlons and the Velvelettes in the place of Rosalind "Roz" Ashford and they continued into 1973. After they disbanded, Martha struggled with a solo career that had critical success but no commercial fortune from it. I think she finally cleaned herself up from her drug addiction in 1977 and since has been a born-again Christian. She's been sober since. Poor Martha 
The more I read about how some motown artists gets fucked over like her, the more I get livid about it 
Gladys Knight & Marry Wells were smart for hitting the iron while its hot and got outta there in one piece(Gladys though was warned by an insider that her place in Motown was in the works of being destroyed). | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: This turned into a very interesting thread indeed
Aren't you glad I didn't create a thread with a particular glove-wearing pop star in mind?
Mention his name and I'll hit you with the snow chains used in "Nowhere to Run". | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: Sometime around 1968 or 1969, I'm not sure, Martha was starting to use prescription pills for aches or something. Well the pills started to look good to her that she went on a drug addiction much like Elvis but that add with her drinking massive amounts of alcohol led her to act all crazy especially considering how the grueling tours, recording schedule mishaps and Berry's overlooking her had her all messed up. One night, Martha lost it and had a nervous breakdown in her hotel room before a concert and she was rushed to a mental hospital where she had to be institutionalized. It was a blow to the Vandellas' career since they had just done the Copacabana (to massive success though their live album from the show has yet to be released), they had finished a successful world tour in Japan and everything. The Vandellas had to disband before Martha was well again to continue. When the Vandellas came back in early 1970, Martha had Lois Reeves - who replaced Betty Kelly in 1967, and Sandra Tilley formerly of the Orlons and the Velvelettes in the place of Rosalind "Roz" Ashford and they continued into 1973. After they disbanded, Martha struggled with a solo career that had critical success but no commercial fortune from it. I think she finally cleaned herself up from her drug addiction in 1977 and since has been a born-again Christian. She's been sober since. Poor Martha
The more I read about how some motown artists gets fucked over like her, the more I get livid about it
Gladys Knight & Marry Wells were smart for hitting the iron while its hot and got outta there in one piece(Gladys though was warned by an insider that her place in Motown was in the works of being destroyed). Gladys left and had bigger success than she ever did in Motown. But Mary struggled. After one modest top forty pop hit after leaving Motown for RCA, she kept getting different producers to give her a hit but she never got the "big hit". Years after her hit "My Guy" helped her gain international acclaim (the Beatles had her open for their UK tour), she wasn't able to bring a captivating hit. What's worse, she signed all her royalty rights to Motown (which is why I admire Martha for getting her royalties) and after being dropped by label after label found herself broke and penniless and ill near the end of her young tragic life. She was briefly married to one of the Womacks and he was physically and mentally abusive to her. She tried raising her children but also struggled with heroin addiction. She cleaned up in time to do oldies shows with Martha and 'em but she was ailing at the end of the '80s. She developed larynx cancer around 1990 and refused chemotherapy. I think she went out like Sammy Davis did - both of them used a controversial remedy for radiation and both died shortly after. Mary was only 49 when she died too. I remember reading about it in JET and feeling sad.
She was a beautiful woman too. | |
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Timmy84 said: FuNkeNsteiN said: This turned into a very interesting thread indeed
Aren't you glad I didn't create a thread with a particular glove-wearing pop star in mind?
Mention his name and I'll hit you with the snow chains used in "Nowhere to Run". It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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As for Gladys, they treated her like shit at Motown. When she and the Pips were signed, no one at Motown really made them feel like family. So they always felt like outsiders. IRONICALLY, the Pips did have more success with songs than the Supremes, Miracles and even the Vandellas were having.
"Grapevine" of course was one of their standards followed by "Friendship Train", "End of the Road", "I Don't Wanna Do Wrong", "If I Were Your Woman", "Daddy Could Swear, I Declare" and "Neither One of Us (Wants to Be the First to Say Goodbye)", which if I'm not mistaken was released AFTER they left Motown. Ironically it was around the same time "Midnight Train to Georgia" went number one. Thankfully "Neither..." became their biggest hit in Motown after "Grapevine" that it hit number two and as payback, the group won Grammys for both "Midnight Train" AND "Neither One of Us". That was a "fuck you" moment to Motown, I feel. I don't think the Pips were invited on "Motown 25". I don't think they necessarily CARED anyway.
I think Smokey and Stevie were the only ones Gladys linked close to. Marvin and her had difficulty since he had more success with "Grapevine" than the Pips did but eventually they resolved their differences and they actually performed "Grapevine" together on a Belgium show in 1981 where Marvin was stationed at.  | |
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Timmy84 said: Marvin and her had difficulty since he had more success with "Grapevine" than the Pips did but eventually they resolved their differences and they actually performed "Grapevine" together on a Belgium show in 1981 where Marvin was stationed at.
Wait,,,I coulda swore that they dueted on that in the Motown 25 special  | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: Marvin and her had difficulty since he had more success with "Grapevine" than the Pips did but eventually they resolved their differences and they actually performed "Grapevine" together on a Belgium show in 1981 where Marvin was stationed at.
Wait,,,I coulda swore that they dueted on that in the Motown 25 special I don't think they did... did they? I just remember Marvin being on there but I don't know if Gladys was. I know the Tempts, Four Tops, Jacksons, Martha, Mary, DeBarge and the Miracles (w/Smokey & Claudette back with the other originals) were there. But I heard little about Ms. Knight and the Pips being there. | |
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Since everyone is on a Martha and the Vandellas high ( well the three people that replied to me ), here's some more classic Vandellas performances from their later years on the SOOOOOUL TRAIN! 
Love (Makes Me Do Foolish Things) 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...r0INXhCkfY Bless You 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...qtj0JJUorY [Edited 9/3/07 23:27pm] [Edited 9/3/07 23:28pm] | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: Wait,,,I coulda swore that they dueted on that in the Motown 25 special I don't think they did... did they? I just remember Marvin being on there but I don't know if Gladys was. I know the Tempts, Four Tops, Jacksons, Martha, Mary, DeBarge and the Miracles (w/Smokey & Claudette back with the other originals) were there. But I heard little about Ms. Knight and the Pips being there. You're right: http://www.youtube.com/wa...xqdvwgJ95g It wasn't the Motown special. | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: I don't think they did... did they? I just remember Marvin being on there but I don't know if Gladys was. I know the Tempts, Four Tops, Jacksons, Martha, Mary, DeBarge and the Miracles (w/Smokey & Claudette back with the other originals) were there. But I heard little about Ms. Knight and the Pips being there. You're right: http://www.youtube.com/wa...xqdvwgJ95g It wasn't the Motown special. If I'm not mistaken, that was on Marvin's box set that I couldn't download at the time because of my fucked-up dial-up. I'm so glad I got high speed now! | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: If I'm not mistaken, that was on Marvin's box set that I couldn't download at the time because of my fucked-up dial-up. I'm so glad I got high speed now! You're talking about "The Master" right? 
Nah, this one I won't downloud. I need the booklet and the liner notes,,,,I'm a sucka for that stuff
Its funny though when you're crazy about boxets but you're money ain't worth a damn I go through trouble for that,,,the last time I went & bought Startime by James Brown and the Queen Of Soul boxet, I damn nearly filed for bankruptcy  | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: If I'm not mistaken, that was on Marvin's box set that I couldn't download at the time because of my fucked-up dial-up. I'm so glad I got high speed now! You're talking about "The Master" right?
Nah, this one I won't downloud. I need the booklet and the liner notes,,,,I'm a sucka for that stuff
Its funny though when you're crazy about boxets but you're money ain't worth a damn I go through trouble for that,,,the last time I went & bought Startime by James Brown and the Queen Of Soul boxet, I damn nearly filed for bankruptcy I feel you, I'm a sucka for that shit too! I would buy it if box sets weren't so motherfucking high. I want to buy his, James', Aretha's, the Supremes, the Temptations and Ray Charles', but their prices are so fucking high it's like... "GRRR"... life's a bitch, man. Box sets of soul legends will be my desert island discs! | |
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This was Martha after the institution, some people said she "lost her voice" and when she claimed it back, it was a little warbly (still is to this day but she still has some power):
Love, Guess Who 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...XsL6K_mmxE Is it me or doesn't it seem like Teena Marie got that warble from hearing Martha?  To me their vocals sound alike in this song.[Edited 9/3/07 23:59pm] | |
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One of my friends bought this for me...
When I looked for its price in the net I was  . I called him immediately after that and was like "Alright motherfucker, whats the catch?"
I feel so guilty for having this  | |
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You know what's kinda sad... a thread with like 50 replies posted by only four different people. If it ain't MJ/Madonna/Janet/Timberlake etc, it ain't gonna get replies. This forum is seriously starting to disappoint me... It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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Here's a little timeline on Martha and the Vandellas:
1960: The Del-Phis are formed: Martha Reeves, Gloria Williamson, Rosalind Ashford and Annette Beard are members. 1961: Martha takes a job as Motown secretary. The Del-Phis release two singles to no success. 1962: Now named the Vells, Gloria leaves the group with Martha, Annette and Roz as remaining members. After successfully backing Marvin Gaye on his second albm, his first to feature hit singles, a chance recording after Mary Wells feigns an illness, the song "I Have to Let Him Go" becomes the first single released by Martha and the Vandellas. Vandellas is named after the group's Detroit neighborhood Van Dyke street and Martha's favorite singer Della Reese. 1963: Hits the charts with "Come Get these Memories" (No. 29 pop, No. 6 R&B), "(Love Is Like a) Heat Wave" (No. 4 pop, No. 1 R&B) and "Quicksand" (No. 8 pop). 1964: Earns a Grammy nomination for "Heat Wave"; Annette leaves and is replaced by Betty Kelley; group releases landmark single "Dancing in the Street" (No. 2 pop). 1965: Hits number-eight with "Nowhere to Run"; becomes second black group to appear on Ed Sullivan after the Supremes of course. The group (and Martha in particular) gets major exposure in London thanks to Dusty Springfield. 1966: Hits No. 22 pop and No. 3 R&B with "My Baby Loves Me". 1967: "Jimmy Mack" becomes group's sixth top ten pop hit peaking at No. 10 and reaching No. 1 R&B. Kelley leaves and is replaced by Lois Reeves; group's name changes to Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. 1968: "Honey Chile" peaks at No. 11 pop and No. 5 R&B. 1969: Martha briefly is institutionalized; Motown issues more songs in the process. Rosalind exits out of a music career further putting the Vandellas' career in jeopardy. 1970: Martha and the Vandellas reunite with Sandra Tilley replacing Roz and record the socially conscious ballad "I Should Be Proud". 1971: Records and releases final Hot 100 hit with "Bless You" (No. 53 pop, No. 29 R&B). 1972: Releases final album, Black Magic and disbands at end of the year. 1974: Martha Reeves releases her self-titled solo album on MCA. 1977: Martha kicks drug addiction in rehab. 1978: Martha, Annette and Roz reunite at a Los Angeles benefit concert. 1981: Sandra Tilley dies after a brain aneurysm. 1983: Martha performs solo on "Motown 25". 1989: Martha and the original Vandellas reunite on tour and on record for Motorcity Records and issues the song "Walk in My Shoes". 1995: Martha and the Vandellas are inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame by the B-52's. Martha performs "Dancing in the Street" with Bruce Springsteen. 2003: Martha and the Vandellas are inducted to the Vocal Group Hall of Fame. Original members Martha Reeves, Annette Sterling and Rosalind Ashford attend to accept their honors. 2005: Martha becomes a politican winning a seat at Detroit's City Council. Here's the site to the two original Vandellas: http://www.thevandellas.com [Edited 9/4/07 0:26am] | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: You know what's kinda sad... a thread with like 50 replies posted by only four different people. If it ain't MJ/Madonna/Janet/Timberlake etc, it ain't gonna get replies. This forum is seriously starting to disappoint me...
This is why I keep adding posts to this thing. People don't need to ignore something like this. People who talk about today's pop stars should come in here for some REAL conversation rather than bitching about some bullshit. THIS IS MUSIC HISTORY I'M POSTING HERE, MAN! | |
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Harlepolis said: One of my friends bought this for me...
When I looked for its price in the net I was . I called him immediately after that and was like "Alright motherfucker, whats the catch?"
I feel so guilty for having this I bet you're one of the few who have this too.  | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: You're talking about "The Master" right?
Nah, this one I won't downloud. I need the booklet and the liner notes,,,,I'm a sucka for that stuff
Its funny though when you're crazy about boxets but you're money ain't worth a damn I go through trouble for that,,,the last time I went & bought Startime by James Brown and the Queen Of Soul boxet, I damn nearly filed for bankruptcy I feel you, I'm a sucka for that shit too! I would buy it if box sets weren't so motherfucking high. I want to buy his, James', Aretha's, the Supremes, the Temptations and Ray Charles', but their prices are so fucking high it's like... "GRRR"... life's a bitch, man. Box sets of soul legends will be my desert island discs!Proud owner of all the box sets that's been mention heah... 
yeah..i'm braggin' | |
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funkpill said: Timmy84 said: I feel you, I'm a sucka for that shit too! I would buy it if box sets weren't so motherfucking high. I want to buy his, James', Aretha's, the Supremes, the Temptations and Ray Charles', but their prices are so fucking high it's like... "GRRR"... life's a bitch, man. Box sets of soul legends will be my desert island discs!Proud owner of all the box sets that's been mention heah...
yeah..i'm braggin' Well damn you and damn your boxets  | |
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great , i also like The Ronettes
http://www.youtube.com/wa...7sGsJtJYsI How do i post the direct video ? , 'embed' didn't work  [Edited 9/4/07 6:21am] | |
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Dewrede said: great , i also like The Ronettes
http://www.youtube.com/wa...7sGsJtJYsI How do i post the direct video ? , 'embed' didn't work
[Edited 9/4/07 6:21am] Only the mods can do it  | |
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Timmy84 said: Watch one of the greatest girl groups of all time in action.
The Marvelettes were better. Gladys Horton's voice was one of the best ever. Period. Their material was great too. Definitely the most underrated Motown group. But yeah, The Vandellas were cool too. Nowhere To Run is my favourite of theirs. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Harlepolis said: Dewrede said: great , i also like The Ronettes
http://www.youtube.com/wa...7sGsJtJYsI How do i post the direct video ? , 'embed' didn't work
[Edited 9/4/07 6:21am] Only the mods can do it really ? so did one change the links ? [Edited 9/4/07 7:24am] | |
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