Watch one of the greatest girl groups of all time in action.


http://www.youtube.com/wa...nVD0r3ubZE


[Edited 9/3/07 13:45pm]

Ah yes, Martha & The Vandellas

FuNkeNsteiN said:

They were one of the flyest female groups of all time to me!

Timmy84 said:

(Love Is Like A) Heat Wave
Nowhere To Run
Love (Makes Me Do Foolish Things)
Jimmy Mack
Come And Get These Memories

FuNkeNsteiN said:

Word!

Also:
"You've Been in Love Too Long"
"Love (Makes Me Do Foolish Things)"
"In My Lonely Room"
"My Baby Loves Me"
"Honey Chile"

Timmy84 said:

Already listed that one

FuNkeNsteiN said:

Yeah, I just noticed. .

Anyway:

"I Can't Dance To That Music You're Plyain'"
"Third Finger, Left Hand"
"Live Wire" (they took it to gospel on that one in particular)
"Quicksand"
"Love Bug Leave My Heart Alone"


[Edited 9/3/07 14:46pm]

Timmy84 said:

Check out the difference





http://www.youtube.com/wa...K8y8woAIMQ

funkpill said:

That was a glimpse probably of how they performed the song live. I liked that version I posted because Martha, Betty and Roz were getting DOWN!

I think "Dancing in the Street" is probably the greatest Motown song of all time for obvious reasons: the lyrics are so out there, the music is funky and the vocals that came out of it (I heard the Vandellas were backed up by Marvin Gaye and Mickey Stevenson and that's why it sounds like males in the background but you could hear Roz and, I think, Annette Sterling on the recorded version alongside Marvin and Mickey).

And funk, if you didn't know, Marvin co-wrote "Dancing in the Street" with Mickey and Ivy Hunter.

Timmy84 said:

Oh yes...I knew my friend

Timmy84 said:

That was the point I was trying to make.

Yours was raw and soulful..

The one I posted seems watered-down..

funkpill said:

Berry Gordy tried to make the Vandellas the Supremes. They were actually the second black group on the show (I don't think the Temptations appear on the show until a few weeks/months later). The Vandellas were what I would consider the female Rolling Stones to the Supremes' Beatles. While the Stones were raw, bluesy and a little bit bad-boy, the Vandellas were raw, soulful and sassy. The Beatles pre-Sgt. Pepper/Revolver were what you call the guys-next-door, same with how the Supremes were perceived at the time. You know Martha and 'em struggled with trying to blend in, they didn't dig it, you could tell from Martha's performance like "what am I doing this version like this?"

Timmy84 said:

Exactly....


And very well said

funkpill said:

Thanks.

But yeah, actually I prefer the Vandellas over the Supremes anyway. Not saying the original Supes had soul but Martha & the Vandellas were one of the "hearts and souls" of Motown's original sound, ya feel me?

Timmy84 said:

yeah..

The Supremes sound had a groove too, but it seems like Berry tried to homogenized them performance wise..

funkpill said:

Exactly! The Supremes are indeed one of the greatest groups of all time but I think Berry Gordy thought they'd be accepted if they just stood there and sung properly and not let loose like the Vandellas. They weren't THAT different but Martha and Diane made the differences in the group: Martha being more church-oriented vocally and Diane more doo-wop oriented (i.e. Frankie Lymon).

Timmy84 said:

Good observation..

But you know something about Diane post-Supremes in the '70s and early-'80s, she did seem to have a more soulful sound on some songs and there were periods you thought she would tear it up but she always held back. That's why she gets the criticism she gets, probably, for not being as soulful as her counterparts like Martha, who was actually born a Southern girl. Diane was born in the Midwest, lol.

Timmy84 said:

But what is considered soulful???


I think Della Reese has a soulful voice..

Or Dionne Warwick for that matter


But I understand what you're saying about Lady Di
[Edited 9/3/07 19:58pm]

funkpill said:

Yeah, not soulful as those girls but she does have a voice. She just has a certain thing about her that's different from theirs, I guess. She's basically the greatest female black POP artist of all time after Dionne. But I actually prefer those two over Whitney, lol. Don't ask me why.

OH!

Did you know Martha was influenced by Della Reese?

You love yourself some Martha Reeves, don't you?

The story about her waiting on Diane's ass in the theatre's wings is just fuuuuuny

Thats all she talks about nowadays; Diane, Marvin & Berry. THATS IT

Just to throw my in the mix...

Had Florence Ballard been the lead singer, she would've tangled with Martha easily(she too is a church gal) but Berry being the pussy whooped Berry - 4give my crassness .....well you know the whole history ya'll.

After reading J.Randy's new bio book about Diana, I understood why she acts this way.

Harlepolis said:

Yeah, I figure that anyways. Flo had an Etta James style to her whereas Martha had a Clara Ward style (she emulated Clara too).

Ironically both of them were vocally trained by the same high school musical teacher two years apart.

Harlepolis said:

Because Berry and Diane pissed her off. Shit, she's as much of a legend as those two, she can deserve to talk.

Martha Reeves 4 life! That's right!
[Edited 9/3/07 22:22pm]
[Edited 9/3/07 22:22pm]

Timmy84 said:

I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when Berry moved the label to LA in the early 70s. You could tell she was DEEPLY hurt by that when you watch the "Standing In The Shadows of Motown" movie.

The woman was and STILL is strongly attached to the motown legacy and ol' days - a dark trait from the cancer sign I guess lol they don't let go easily.

But you know what's confusing about the whole Supremes issue, to bring this off-topic again (reminds me, I need to bump the Supremes thread I started), but we've heard THREE different accounts on how the girls started:

1.) Some friends from Detroit said Flo was the "original lead singer".
2.) Others like Maxine Ballard (Flo's sis) and Smokey Robinson said it was Diane was the original lead singer.
3.) Some others say that Diane, Flo and Mary all started out singing lead so there wasn't really a lead singer until 1962 or '63.

I'm gonna have to go with the third option.

But with the Vandellas, there was no telling (after the departure of Gloria Williamson in 1962) that Martha was the lead singer of the group. Like the Supremes AFTER them, they had great success as a background group before their rise to stardom.

There's a pretty good reason why they're in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

Now if they induct the Marvelettes and Mary Wells, that'll be perfect.

Well, Flo founded the group,,,so that ought to give her the 'lead' title even if she stayed in the background.

Much like Otis Williams and The Temptations' case

With Florence though, at least from Berry's view, you can't mold her voice,,,,with Diane, you could.

Exactly like the confrontation scene between Curtis & Deena(when he told her that he put her on the lead for not having a "voice with a personality").

Harlepolis said:

It was a long and brooding thing between Martha and Berry. Martha was one of the first Motown stars to openly criticize everything Berry was doing. She didn't like it when she and the Vandellas weren't allowed to do their own stuff, upset when Motown gave all the promotion to the Supremes (though it could've been more of a cover to make Diane THE female star of Motown though Martha and Mary came before her), then when Berry gave all his attention to Diane and not to Martha as he used to, she started to really HATE him, a hate that built up to Motown leaving Detroit for Los Angeles in the 1970s. After that Martha was like "to hell with that midget motherfucker". You know Ms. Reeves was RAW, she would say ANYTHING!

Martha got her revenge on Berry in 1983 shortly before attending "Motown 25". She was allowed to have royalties and Vandellas records from 1963 to 1972 have been billed as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas rather than just Martha and the Vandellas. That actually was a name change in 1967 because of what happened with Diana Ross and the Supremes though it probably didn't raise much of a fuss.

You know what was so ironic though, between 1967 and 1968, when the Supremes struggled on the charts as Diana Ross and the Supremes pre-"Love Child", the Vandellas as Martha Reeves and the Vandellas briefly outsold them with "Jimmy Mack" and "Honey Chile". Then Martha had some psychological problems and that briefly disbanded the group, sent Rosalind "Roz" Ashford packing and after bringing on her sister Lois and Sandra Tilley, Martha carried on until Motown exited out of Detroit.

Such a shame no one paid attention to her as a solo artist, I think with the right promotion (if she'd been given Natalie Cole's records, she'd be right up there with Aretha and Diane I feel).