vainandy said:

I remember seeing Rick on Entertainment Tonight back in 1983 I think when he was recording the album Cold Blooded. They were in the studio with him and he was playing part of "You Bring the Freak Out" And cursing and swearing about "this is going to **** Prince up! Prince can't deal with that ****! **** Prince." or something to that effect.

Then Purple Rain came out, Rick got deeper into drugs and that was basically it for him.

Prince did the same thing. Apparently, he was more into the new wave groups of the day, because I hear a little Devo, Gary Numan, and The Cars in Prince's music combined with funk.

I remember reading a hilarious Rick James interview in either "Right On", "Black Beat", or "Rock and Soul" magazine. (I can't remember which one) This was in 1985, I believe, because "Purple Rain" had already been out and was out of style by then. Rick was still talking about making a movie and bragging about how it was going to be much better than a movie about a little weirdo riding around on a motorcycle in a purple coat.

vainandy said:

The point is that IMO Rick James really didn't bring anything new to the genre (similar to what R. Kelly did), just built on what his immediate predecessors did and parlayed it into a successful career. Prince did bring rock sensibilities musically and lyrically to the genre that wasn't quite used to the degree he incorporated them in the Minneapolis Sound.
[Edited 8/23/07 9:37am]

vainandy said:

Rick and Prince took things and turned them into their own sound. Rick definately had a sound of his own just like Prince had a sound of his own. R. Kelly didn't have a sound of his own. His shit sounded like shit hop and when you've heard one shit hop artist, you've heard them all.

I do believe that drugs and the rise of Prince did do something damaging to Rick's ego because the things Rick had talked of doing, Prince had already done them first: forming the girl group, starring in a movie/producing a soundtrack, etc. But Rick should've actually been proud of himself though:

Most of the people he actually WORKED with had hits:
The Mary Jane Girls had some big R&B hits much less the one big pop hit with "In My House". "All Night Long" is still a beloved song in all corners of the R&B community.
Teena Marie became a star after being initially produced by Rick.
Even Eddie Murphy can brag about having a big-ass hit under Rick's leadership.
And the Temptations had a brief comeback with "Standing on the Top".
I think Smokey had a young following after the "Ebony Eyes" duet.

So I think he did a lot of good but I do feel he was incensed with rage over Prince that he almost never got over.

Rick hated Prince since the tour they did together, which would have been Rick's "Fire It Up" album and Prince's "Prince" album.

When Rick was the winner, such as the "Street Songs" era, you never heard Prince's name come out of Rick's mouth. However, when Rick was beaten or even come close to being beaten, then it was "Prince this" and "Prince that". That would have been the "1999" era, like you said.

vainandy said:

Once again...you are right on the mark!

vainandy said:

But do you notice....you never heard Prince say anything about Rick. Maybe it was because Prince didn't do interviews , but the "Fued" seemed very one-sided to me. All coming from Rick and it did not seem like Prince cared at all. Prince was just off doing his thing.

vainandy said:

When R. Kelly first came out, he tried to be Bobby Brown (I saw a promo video he did with his group MGM from '89 and the video looked like a ghetto "Every Little Step I Take"), then when he came with Public Announcement, he sounded like Aaron Hall with his group producing music that sounded like it was off the crates of some Guy shit. Then when his first solo album came out, he was a carbon copy of Aaron: bald head, sunglasses, wearing just a vest, singing with that voice - that actually was Charlie Wilson's.

Throughout the rest of his career though, he also tried to be like these guys:
Ron Isley (whom he actually worked with and probably helped destroy musically, lol)
Michael Jackson (whom he also worked with)
Marvin Gaye (whom he claims he's the next incarnation of... )

There was never a point where I thought R. Kelly was being R. Kelly.

Rick James, on the other hand, while he DID emulate Marvin and Sly and James and the like, had his OWN sound, his OWN voice and his OWN thing.

Prince also emulated a lot of styles, like you said, Andy, the new-wave stuff, the punk stuff and mixed it with R&B and funk.

But R. Kelly was and always will be the bastard child of Aaron Hall, Teddy Riley, Ron Isley and Marvin Gaye without no attempt to try to be himself.

Also, Rick wouldn't be crazy to do something like "Trapped in the Toilet...er, Closet".

vainandy said:

I was thinking that was the infamous tour when Prince released "Dirty Mind" where Prince and Rick James (the opening act was Zapp) developed their bad blood (at least, it was more bad blood on Slick Rick's side).
[Edited 8/23/07 9:56am]

Excellent post. I fully agree.

Also, speaking of The Temptations, they had a song in 1980 called "Power" but it didn't do too well. Rick brought them back on top with "Standing On The Top" and got them in the public eye again. After that, they continued on with success of their own (without Rick's help) with "Treat Her Like A Lady" and "Lady Soul".

Timmy84 said:

It's because R. Kelly really has no distinctive musical style. Whether it's aping Lenny Williams in a remixed version of "Down Low (No One Has to Know)" or trying to emulate Phillippe Wynn in his remake of The Spinners' "Sadie, it's amazing he's made a career of raping other artists' styles. It's only in his production style on certain songs does he has something resembling a personal style.

You can still be evil and not say anything. Prince and Rick reminded me of Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam. Yosemite Sam was loud and obnoxious while Bugs Bunny was cool and calm. Bugs Bunny stirred the shit up though, he was just more cool about it after it got stirred up and people thought that Yosemite Sam had just lost his damn mind going off like that.

Prince was no angel himself. He had his bodyguard carry him into an arena through the audience at one of Rick's concerts just to piss Rick off. Rick responded by telling the audience to "pay no attention to Princess".

Oh, those were some good times!

vainandy said:

The Temptations lasted longer than most R&B groups did at that particular time. I think them, the Dells, the O'Jays and the Isley Brothers are the longest-running R&B groups that continued to chart even after their "heyday" but yeah Rick helped the Tempts a lot. They insisted him first off on "Super Freak".

"TEMPTATIONS SING!" That was one of my favorite parts of the song.

Nooooo. It was before that on Rick's "Fire It Up" tour and Prince was his opening act on that tour. Prince had been pretty tame and had gone un-noticed on the earlier shows of that tour while Rick was wild as hell and had the audience in a frenzy.

Prince, I'm sure, observed Rick's outrageousness and saw what he had to do for himself.....become outrageous. Prince started stripping to a G string and making sexual movements and gestures and got the audience just as riled as, if not more, than Rick. Then, Rick had to go on stage after Prince and try to top it. It made Rick absolutely furious! He was used to be king of the hill and here this little guy was upstaging him.

vainandy said:

So true!

You are right, I forgot about that incident. And great Yosemite Sam/Bugs bunny analogy!

Sowhat said:

That does remind me of a Yosemite Sam/Bugs Bunny confrontation!!!! I can see it now:

Prince: Eh, what's up doc?
Rick: I'm the most funkiest, atrocious, hellacious, freakiest, rockingest man alive and there ain't nothin' you can do to stop me, bitch!
Prince: Oh yeah, well I can be freaky and atrocious too... (((WHIPS OFF TRENCH COAT))) See my thong and my boots?
Rick: What the... (((WHIPS OUT GUN))) Alright, you asked for it (((POPS GUNS OFF)))
Prince: AOWOWO... (((RUNS IN RHYTHM)))

I see it more like Prince thumping Rick on the back of the head but nobody sees him do it. Then Rick gets up, gets loud, raises hell, and makes a spectacle of himself. Everyone else in the room thinks Rick has lost his damn mind because poor little Prince is simply sitting there minding his own business. Then, Prince turns his head the other way and giggles his ass off.

vainandy said:

Sowhat said:

Oh man, I would give my left nut to have seen that.

Oops Najee, you and I may be talking about the same tour. You threw me when you mentioned Zapp as the opening act. I don't know who else was on Rick's "Fire It Up" tour, I just know that Rick came on stage directly after Prince's performance.

This was the period when Prince's "Prince" album was out. Think out it, Prince wasn't the wild bad ass he became until the "Dirty Mind" album. However, considering the time frame, I'm sure Prince was busy writing songs for his "Dirty Mind" album while he was on this tour. I betcha he probably even performed a song or two from the upcoming album on that tour. If he performed "Head" on that tour, you know Rick was pissed about trying to top that performance. Come to think of it, he had to have performed "Head" on that tour because it was that performance that drove Gayle Chapman out of the band. When Prince had his "Dirty Mind" tour, Lisa was on board.

vainandy said:

I'm pretty sure it was when Prince's "Dirty Mind" was out and Zapp was the opening act. The stories I've read regarding the Prince/Rick James rivalry (including excerpts from James himself) stating their beef started on that tour.

I've always heard that Teena Marie was Prince's opening act on his "Dirty Mind" tour. Zapp maybe could have possibly been a third act on that tour. Teena opening for Prince alone would be enough to put Rick in fumes but Rick hated Prince even before that on his own tour.

Not only the upstaging of Rick on that tour, but I also heard that Prince refused to sign an autograph for Rick's mother on that tour.

Speaking of Zapp, I think they opened for Prince's "Controversy" tour.

But you know what, I'm sure Prince didn't really care what Rick had to say about him. I mean he never got into the music biz to compete with anyone. I'm sure he wasn't phased about how badass MJ was ad how he had to top him (but we all know that Prince is king ). Prince is just concerned about making great music and that's it.

It's like when my lead singer told me that once our band gets out there, we're gonna have to compete with other bands that may have our sound and style and stuff. I told her that I don't care about what everyone else is doing. I'm just focused on what WE ARE doing. Sure there's gonna be others out there doing their thing. But they've got a right to say what they have to say just like us.

vainandy said:

I'm not talking about the "Dirty Mind" tour itself, but the tour Prince did with Rick James and Zapp just before he headlined his own. If I recall, those three toured in the summer of 1980 until shortly after "Dirty Mind" was released -- then Prince left to start his own tour. We evidently are talking about the same tour.
[Edited 8/23/07 11:12am]

If he was concerned, we'd never know it because he very rarely have interviews. That just made him seem all the more cool because he was so mysterious that we really didn't know what the hell he was thinking.

If I were an interviewer, the first thing I would ask Prince is how he felt about Rick James as an artist and the comments that Rick made about him. I'd love to know his opinion on that.....if he would tell the truth. Prince has been known to lie in the past, ya know.



Prince and Michael Jackson should have never been compared at all. That was white media that wanted to throw them together because both are black and both are feminine.

Michael is basically a hit making pop machine that follows a formula.....get the hottest producer available and get the hottest artists of the time to guest star on your album.

Rick was a much better comparison to Prince than Michael. Both Prince and Rick produced their own stuff, played multiple instruments, and had protegee groups.