fluid said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

Humans aren't built that way. And there's nothing wrong with acknowledging our differences, long as we respect them.

Color becomes a problem when folks attach a value to it, by using color as a badge of superiority.

uPtoWnNY said:

As a non-US citizen, I am shocked BY THE HATRED and BITTERNESS that MJ causes amongst his American ex-fans who still "care" enough to post on almost on all the threads related to MJ. I wonder if there would be such extreme emotions among some of his ex-fans if he did not have vitiligo. Yes, he has also had numerous plastic surgeries which are SEPARATE from his skin disorder.

But, in the end, he is a human being with feelings and emotions just like the rest of us. Most of us have never met him. Most of us have no idea the real reasons WHY he has been under the knife SO MANY times. Some of you have theories about MJ "abandoning his heritage," and state it as if it is a fact. Well, the truth is, none of us know the real reason. If you believe in a God, well, then ONLY MJ and God know.

Music should bring people together. And his music from the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, and even '00s has brought a lot of happiness to a number of people around the world, regardless of RACE, CULTURE, GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, and NATIONALITY. I wish more people would realize that.

Rodya24 said:

I suggest you(and the other foreign Orgers) read up on the black experience in America. Then you might understand why some of the older ex-fans feel the way they do.

uPtoWnNY said:

I am a person of color and lived in the US for over a decade before moving back to Asia where I reside in now. Meaning that yes, I am aware of the black experience through reading history books, personal experiences of racism, and the LA Riots -- an incident which, I believe, the white mainstream media brushed off as "Let the colored people fight it out amongst themselves".

I mentioned the fact that I am a non-US citizen, because such hatred seems to reside amongst his American fans in particular.

The fact that some orgers cannot believe that MJ has vitiligo boggles the mind. It reeks of hatred and bitterness for a man whom most of us have not even met or spoken with.

Yes, he has had numerous plastic surgeries. I am not DENYING that at all.

But to DENY that he has vitiligo is to be in denial.

I can understand why amongst some of the older orgers who grew up with the mini-superstar at Motown to what he has become now, there are questions of his "abandoning his heritage." But his skin-color change should not factor into such a perception, because vitiligo is a disease, which MJ has.

fluid said:

WOW LOT OF WISDOM HERE!

NOW SAY HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT SKIN DRIVE CAR

AND WHAT KIND OF FOOD THEY EAT

POOK MEAN WHY STOP WITH AGE THING

Yeah, that picture is a joke. Michael had smaller facial features, even in the Thriller days.

fluid said:

please,don't go there!

like i said.. michael would look way better then that fan made pic of him... do you really think he would let his nose stay that big.. and wear his hair like that....


He atleast would have had surgery....

Michael probably felt the world was zooming in on him.. and anything that he felt insecure about.. probably was a worst feeling then most of us feel about things we are insecure... because he's a celeb.. and people will purposly pick out their flaws..... so i can't be angry at him for getting anything done...

Rodya24 said:

I don't deny he has vitiligo - it just seems like he used the vitiligo to go all white. Everyone I've seen with vitiligo has it in portions of their body - not having every bit of dark skin vanish. I would think if you came down with vitiligo & you know there is no chance of returning the natural pigment to your skin but you could bleach the rest of your skin to match it would not be that bad a choice. Whatever makes you feel better. I would imagine is quite a blow. Maybe thats what happened but he has never fully explained it. Instead it looks like he is denying his natural color instead of dealing with a disease.

thedoorkeeper said:

You make a good point. But I believe he was more open than usual about his skin disease in the Martin Bashir interview. Too bad the child molestation accusation overshadowed some of the interesting comments captured in the interview.

Few have seen him in person without the makeup and without the clothes (I think the closest he came to being nude in public was for the music video "You Are Not Alone"). Most of us (I am assuming you have not either) have not seen him in person at his home. So, perhaps he does still have brown spots on his torso or legs which he covers up with makeup. But again, this is all specuation. And no, I do not want to argue with others on this topic, because it is tiring. I became a fan because of the music, not because of the damn skin disease.
[Edited 8/19/07 0:35am]
[Edited 8/19/07 0:36am]

thedoorkeeper said:

That's why I doubt the story myself and I say it could be self-induce. For instance I have a very small white patch on my arm, it's barely noticeable. I have had it for years, now some expert can tell me that is vitiligo, yet it is so small and it hasn't spread so for me to say I have a skin disease due to this one tiny spot would be silly and then for me to then depigmentized my whole body so that I could turn white would seem foolish and completely illogical. The fact of the matter is if your look at any geniue picture of Michael during the Thriller or Off The Wall era, with or without makeup there is no evidence he has big white patches that were so out of control that he needed to depigmentize the whole of the body, which is obviously what he has done.

And as I said before there are even people who have vitiligo who do not believe Michael has it.

floetcist said:

Why in God's name do people continue to buy the vitiligo bullshit? Even if Michael genuinely has this affliction, his skin would be spotty or mottled with white, NOT completely snowy like a January morning. As for lightening the rest to match? That would be an extremely difficult task, requiring a highly skilled skin specialist. And given that MJ is clearly in the habit of visiting plastic surgeons of questionable ethics, what are the chances he'd even entertain the notion of seeing the level of doctor required to match skin as dark as his previously was to the vitiligo patches?

I don't know in what universe his vitiligo excuse is believable, but it's not this one. For God's sake, I went to esthetician school -not exactly something requiring a deep understanding of biology or skin disorders -and learned how unebelievable the vitiligo story is. The teacher actually used Michael Jackson as part of the lessons; a human demonstration. His vitiligo story is about as plausible as Bush's reasoning for the war.

Rodya24 said:

People can't believe he has vitiligo because his story reeks of bullshit. It's simply not possible the way he describes it. I don't claim to be a doctor, but I'm not a gullible jackass either. I can read, I've picked up a textbook or two. That man does not have vitiligo.

Wow @ the last two posts.

Tell me please, if you think the vitiligo is bullshit, THAN WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO HIM? The people who constantly refuse to believe he has vitiligo never give an alternative on why he came out the way he did. And we already established a non vitiligo patient attempted to bleach their skin with the medicine monobenzylether of hydroquinone causes death.

Michael went through depigmentation therapy, which is what someone might opt to do when the discolorations have covered most of the body and the use of makeup to hide the difference in color becomes an inconvenience. That’s why you will notice during around 1986 Michael was lighter, but not as white as he appears now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4FIw9kG1PM

1986


[Edited 8/19/07 13:58pm]
[Edited 8/19/07 17:06pm]

Fucking Org.

I don't have time to fix that post now, but I'll be back later to add my two bits.

In a nutshell: I love Michael, but he's a liar.

Now we've seen what Michael would liek like dark now. Does anyone have one of what he would liek like light then?

The vitiligo story would be believable if Michael hadn't already done numerous other things to alter his appearance and look more "white".Let's be honest here....Michael has changed/removed all of his African-American features,trying to make himself look like his best friend,Elizabeth Taylor.After doing all that,the next step was to lighten his skin.I'm sorry,I just find the vitiligo story to be too "conveninent".....after doing all these other things to look white,he suddenly discovers that he has vitiligo,a disease that (surprise,surprise) lightens one's skin?? How convenient Sorry,I don't buy it.

SoulAlive said:

Thats your standpoint?

Michael has gotten cosmetic surgery starting since the late 70s, he wasn't diagnosed with vitiligo and lupus until 1984. And he covered it for the longest time before he decided to go through depigmentation therapy.

And if Michael was trying to look like Liz Taylor as you say, I think its safe to say that he failed miserably than...

floetcist said:

What you say still doesn't make sense. For Michael to undergo the depigmentation process it would have meant that the white patches would have virtually out-stripped his natural brown skin,leaving his body with over 50% of vitiligo, but there is no evidence of that. Makeup would only be able to cover up so much, it would be noticeable sooner or later that he has lots of white patches all over his body, especially since when he tours he sweats buckets - I know, having seen him on the Bad tour- so any discolouration would have become obvious to the naked eye. If Michael had a little, white patch on his arm, hand or even face it wouldn't have made sense for him to undergo depigmentation just for that, but it seems if he does have vitiligo (and I still doubt it) this is what he has done.

During 1983-1989, there were times he would be dark one moment and light the other:

1983-




1984-





1985-






1986-






1987-






1988-




1989-

Oooh nice picas!!!! You're my new friend now

floetcist said:

I agree with your comment about Liz Taylor,lol.

their are few people who know their shit on this site, Specially when it comes pertaining to MJ.
Im one of them.
1. Their is no way, yet, to permanently whiten your skin color, Go ask your doctor, and they'll tell you what many have told me. It's impossible.
Conventional Skin lighteners can only whiten the skin for months at a time, afterwards they return back to their normal color.
Bleaching your skin permanently as a theory, is toxic. You'll be poisoning yourself.
2. Their are 3 types of vitiligo, Focal, in only a certain few areas of the body the patches show, segmental, on only one side of the body, Universal, Everywhere on the body.
Of these three Michael was diagnosed by his Dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein, with Universal Vitiligo and Lupus. This was confirmed in several court depositions, including the 03 molestation trial. And in several interviews where reporters would say MJ would show up in a surgical mask, unmade up, after facing recent vitiligo treatment.
3. Back in the 80's the new revolutionary treatment for vitiligo was in its preliminary stages re-pigmentation, and patients who didn't have universal vitiligo qualified. Michael's Dermatologist gave MJ a choice. Leaving the disease alone, and having the spots grow slowly and becoming more obvious. Or undergo the process of De-pigmentation. Which speeds up the process of vitiligo. Having a patient go from 30% white to 70& in a matter of one or two years. When normally it would take 5 to 10 years. In the 80's you can tell he went through this around the We Are The World Period in 85.
Michael is Currently 92% de-pigmented, getting closer to being completely albino. Having this disease means he has become a virtual Vampire, using lotions creams, umbrellas to protect him from the sun. Because of the lost of melanin in his skin, Hes at dangerous risk for skin cancer. And because of the lupus, his internal organs are in trouble because his immune system could turn on him any day now.

I've posted this type of crap with sources all the time, im just saying what ii remember from my extensive reading. But if you really do care about it. Just Google Vitiligo and you'll see MJ's Picture and topics about it everywhere. Its a serious subject. I know alot of people with it and it really interrupts their psychological growth. Having the disease was probably the many factors in MJ being so batty.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Dude, while I agree with you on all points, there is no point attempting to convince those who think that MJ is a "liar" and a "skin bleacher." I and several other orgers in the thread entitled, "Michael Jackson image complex" laid out the same evidence to no use. One person told me that the doctor proably lied under oath about MJ having vitiligo. A couple of others posted a YouTube link to a clip of Malcolm X in their quest to prove that MJ is the embodiment of black self-hatred. Apparently MJ having vitiligo is in their words "too convenient."