You know something?

I just notice that most of the stuff we heard in the late-'60s leading up to funk from the likes of Sly Stone and James Brown were mostly proto-funk songs. Even "It's Your Thing" by the Isley Brothers had a proto-funk feel.

BUT I have to say if we're talking in terms of MATURE funk, I dare say Isaac's "Hyperbolicsyllabicsequedalymystic" is the first song that brought out the funk. Now I know James is the creator of funk but I feel Isaac is its architect. That song lyrically don't make any sense and it has no melody or hook though this is repeated:

What I say?
Hyperbolicsyllabicsequedalymystic...

But I feel this song was one of the first songs to steer away from classic soul into FUNK...period. This influenced James and Sly to get even DEEPER with the funk, I feel.

And the fact this and the rest of Hot Buttered Soul was recorded in the summer of 1969 is something of a statement.

But I feel this song truly made a change in what wasn't then known as funk.

Y'all think Isaac's been sadly misjudged and overrated because of his Shaft thing and his "South Park" gig? I feel he is.

That piano, those drums, the bass, the guitar, Isaac's deep-as-fuck voice and those girl group vocals that just sounds as if they were just emulating what the song may be about...

This is an experimental record for yo ass... I can also see why Public Enemy would even sample this (the piano part in the instrumental half of the song)...


[Edited 8/22/07 17:32pm]

(((Namepeace))) you were trying to say something? This board be acting up...

There is one thing that will always stand out in my mind about the Hot Buttered Soul record.
My Dad, someone who generally had nothing to do with any music that wasn't Jazz, brought this album home when it was released.
And actually played it. I couldn't believe it.


The Bar-Kays have to get some credit for the record's funky vibe.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Oh yeah, The Bar Kays definitely deserve credit for this... you can tell something was missing in Mr. Hayes' music when Isaac had his own group of musicians and the Bar Kays went on to record their own material.
[Edited 8/22/07 19:46pm]

You mean HOT BUTTERED SOUL? No it does not qualify as a funk album. Defintely that track gets a nod for it's trippy bass-heavy psychedelica, but Hayes tended to overproduce ballads with heavy orchestration and his records featured extended versions of pop covers. In most cases it was romantic soul.

I'd give the nod for first funk record to Sly Stone LIfE


I don't know what "proto funk" you are referring to, but this was a complete and fully realized album. It was Sly's 3rd album and pulled together the steps of the first two. It was recorded in 1967; HBS in '69, bu tmay have gotten lost between the single "Thankyou" and the album STAND!.


BTW SHAFT is not a negative on Hayes. He just lost the battle against Barry White in the "Brother with deep soul baritone and a huge orchestra" genre.
[Edited 8/22/07 20:53pm]

PFunkjazz said:

MsLegs said:

PFunkJazz, you funny but I see your point.

I think the first real funk record was JB's "Cold Sweat" in 67.
[Edited 8/23/07 8:16am]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

You know something? I had forgotten all about that... ok, exclude what I thought... you're right, "Cold Sweat" was a real funk song basically because it was the first to not include a hook or a melody. It was just raw emotion. It paved the way for songs like "Hyperbolicsyllabicsequedalymystic".

BUT I will say this: Isaac's song was the first to have such a screwy title, don't u agree?
[Edited 8/23/07 9:07am]

I've read where there's a debate between Out of Sight (James Brown) and Testify (Isley Brothers w/Jimi Hendrix) being the first.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Yeah, I heard that on Soul Patrol years ago.

I heard a sample of "Testify" and it is indeed funky.

Wasn't "Testify" and "Out of Sight" out at the same time? 1964? I think it was because the Isleys formed T-Neck in 1963 and both "Testify" and "Move Over and Let Me Dance" were recorded a year afterwards... least I think so.

Debate over the first real funk song is kinda sketchy though... I at one time even said Jr. Walker's "Shotgun" was the first funk song (which was out before "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag", I think).

theAudience said:

I was thinking album and not so much an individual track. In that case I'll give the nod to "Out Of Sight". "Testify" has Jimi, but it's more a soul gospel shout than a piece of funk.

PFunkjazz said:

Lemme ask you this... do you think "Shotgun" (by Jr. Walker) was one of the first funk songs AFTER "Out of Sight"?

Timmy84 said:

"Papa" actually has the tempo on 1 & 3 and it was out in '65. I think this resolves things perfectly.

Timmy84 said:

Yes it does figure up there as one of the first funk tracks. There has to be some consideraton for the Meters' Art Neville. "Cha Dooky Do" dates back to '54 and you can take the title's vernacular as being as trippy as "Hyperbolicsyllabicsequedalymystic".

PFunkjazz said:

Yeah, true, true... "Shotgun" had a 2 & 4 beat so I can see why that wouldn't be "funk". It's funky soul though... that and "Testify".

PFunkjazz said:

Oh ok, thanks. I had always thought "Shotgun" was truly a FUNK song. Wow... I forgot about Art Neville but I gotta check that song out. @ the title Cha Dooky Do...
[Edited 8/23/07 10:28am]

Timmy84 said:

Oh, DAMMIT!

Well, I was saying that Isaac moved funk forward with a lot of his records, but I wouldn't call "Hyper" THE first funk record. As you indicated, James basically invented it.

But, I think you made a good point. Isaac's "Black Moses" image, his iconic "Shaft" song, AND his South Park work overwhelm his full musical legacy as a soul and funk pioneer. I mean, the Shaft album itself is genius. He helped create the Stax sound before that. I think Isaac's fame overshadows his legacy.

namepeace said:

Yeah that's what I was getting at. Of course addressing (((PFunkjazz))), I knew HBS was more romantic soul than funk but I meant "Hyper"... but yeah, I've since stated that I now believe "Hyper" wasn't THE first because a lot of funk songs came before "Hyper" but it's one of funk's most trippiest songs though. And yeah, his fame and iconic status have overshadowed his talent/legacy. The man was indeed brilliant.