I don't care if the genius is him:

I think that this lady :

rules on the dance floor:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...ed&search=

jn2: that is a beautiful picture of Madonna and her children. But perhaps you could have posted a picture of MJ and his children in a happier moment than the one captured above -- where all three are roaming around a zoo in Germany hounded by the paparazzi. LOL.

Anyways, the youtube link that you posted of Madonna performing "Everybody" made me nostalgic (strange because I never experienced the '80s as a teenager or as an adult) for the time when both Madonna and MJ were at the top of their game.

But thanks for the link.

The kop choses to present himself and his family this way, Madonna's dancers must be 20 years younger than her and she's not ridiculous (+ she's hot! ) , I love the joy & the fun of this live version she doesn't look desperate dance & sing get up and do your thing!
*
[Edited 8/11/07 3:57am]

wow the mention of Madonna makes even the ex MJ fans stand up for him

jn2 said:

YUCK! That was fucking awful! You are joking, right? Madonna is fooling no one but her fans dancing with these twenty year olds as if she's still a hip young thing. The only dance floor that woman could rule on would be the one in the old people's home. btw, you can hear how bad that singing was, can't you?

LightOfArt said:

I know! Madonna unites ex, casual, closet, and hardcore fans of MJ.

jn2 said:

I think it is unfair to compare a image of MJ and his children taken by the paparazzi to that of Madonna and her children commissioned by Madge herself. With the particular picture that you posted above, Madonna, unlike MJ, had the ultimate control of how she and her children are presented to the public.

As for the footage of Madonna singing "Everybody," yes, she looks great for a woman in her late forties.
[Edited 8/11/07 4:30am]
[Edited 8/11/07 4:42am]

It’s Madonna who’s desperate for a hit.

Stop inflating Madonna’s talents that if he has one, Madonna is mediocre talent at best who built her whole career on sex and controversy, no to mention that she could not hold a note , and No I won’t respect her for her longevity in the music industry, I respect real talents like MJ, Prince, Stevie Wonder……

And to determine who’s desperate for a hit on their both upcoming albums , here is a quote from Will.I.am about the music on MJ’s new album.



MJ is creating music with longevity obviously.....
[Edited 8/11/07 4:42am]

the "Will.I.AM said.. the new album blahblah" has become tiring and ridicule.
yes, like Scream or YRMW

jn2 said:

Well, considering that "Scream" and "You Rock My World" are favorites among a number of fans, I am not quite sure what you are talking about. In particular, "Scream" is a favorite among some Janet fans as well.

I see. "Scream" was not as successful as "Hung Up" so it is pointless to argue. I guess MJ should sample ABBA for his new album. Perhaps then we can all agree that his new album will be just as successful and "classic" as Confessions on the Dance Floor.

Look. It is pointless to argue who is more desperate for a hit when no one has heard either of the two albums. MJ might not even release his in the fall. That is the only reason why I think he is not desperate. IMO, he does not have his former drive and passion for creating music. I hope that I will be proven wrong -- before 2009. LOL.
[Edited 8/11/07 5:31am]
[Edited 8/11/07 5:33am]

jn2 said:

Why its become tiring , thats his quote about the Music on mj's new album.....

about scream and yrmw? whats so wrong with these tracks, i think they still fresh and listenable..even tho that both songs are not my cup of tea but still they are listenable and fresh.....or do you want to me to give a link to madonna's song candy shop..which horribly unlistenable..

jn2 said:

noone talks shit about scream next to me

It'd be foolish to deny Scream sounding more futurustic than whats out there now. And it was released 12 years ago. Noone who doesnt know the song's history can tell it's from mid 90s.It's timeless.
[Edited 8/11/07 5:07am]

LightOfArt said:

Also, one cannot overlook its kickass music video. While "Scream" might not appeal to those who love MJ's earlier work at Motown and Epic, it is still a favorite among a number of his fans.

BTW, how the hell did this thread turn into MJ's talents versus Madonna's talents thread, when it is so obvious who the former child prodigy and brilliant singer, dancer, songwriter, and entertainer is.

I forget. To some people, one must have continual commercial success (i.e. dominate world charts and sell out concerts) in order to be considered "brilliant." By that criteria, I suppose Stevie Wonder is a nobody and a musical idiot.
[Edited 8/11/07 5:20am]

wow...people say madonna built her carrer using sex and controversy...well so did Mj after thriller (the last time he made music that makes sense call him a genius)...just controversy and sex (x-cept that the sex thang was what ruined his career )

This thread has gone to hell.

krayzie said:

We can sit here all day and debate whether or not Madonna has talent.That's all subjective,anyway.However,there are some things that can't be disputed.The truth is,Madonna is still relevent and is still doing great things in her career.Last year,she completed a world tour that grossed $200 million,making it the biggest,most successful tour by a female artist.Her last CD sold over 10 million copies worldwide.On the recent Forbes list of highest earning artists,she is the wealthiest female artist on the list.Her Warner contract is coming to an end and you can bet that she will receive several lucrative offers from other companies (a potential deal with LiveNation is worth $160 million).Opinions mean nothing,it's the FACTS that really count,and the fact is,Madonna is still on top of her game.End of story.

seeingvoices12 said:

and we have a release date for Madonna, Michael it isn't going to happen.

Madonna career is in much better shape than Michael's, there is no doubt about that. I am not much of a Madonna fan, I can name only a handful of her songs that I truely like, Borderline -one of her more minor hits- being my favourite song of hers.

I admired Madonna because she has so little raw, talent yet through hard work and determination she still around 20 yrs on. She continues to be relevant because she gives people with so little talent hope, she is the original spice girl.

Christopher said:

Now is'nt this the truth! If MJ of Madonna had pulled that stunt, you all would be so dissing the shit out of them! It amazes me how one-sided some Prince fans are.....looking at some of the things posted, the very same things can be and has been said about your royal purpleness!
[Edited 8/11/07 20:34pm]

ehuffnsd said:

but on what level? Her aptitude is questioned because it appears she's not adroit in any particular style. Michael’s style and routines are so recognizable and practiced that dancers like the EBs and Lockers will publicly state that they are the progenitors of such styles. They wouldn't have to make such statements if MJ hadn't popularized those moves and shown a high aptitude in executing them; making some of the casual public believe they were his own creation. If MJ crunked on the level of Madonna, he would be laughed at by hip-hop dancers, Madonna can do her sub-par crunks surrounded by pros w/o ridicule because it's understood she's merely mimicking the dance for the stage performance. (I know, me and you have gone down this road before about her dancing) http://www.youtube.com/wa...vurA6CRQT0
http://www.youtube.com/wa...uPnSceu7Ug

Madonna is the ultimate dilettante, and that's not meant as a slight against her talent, that quality has kept her in the industry for 25+ years--continually trying to incorporate different styles fusing them in to her “persona”. This is why Madonna wont have a discernible artistic peak until after her career is over; her art never relied on technical musical ability; infer from that statement what you will. Madonna could sit on a stool and recite What it feels like for a girl and she would be credited for reinventing the spoken word.

Madonna is the powerful woman who can do anything, never submissive, like Janet Jackson…wouldn’t that have been the better comparison: who is more desperate for a hit?? JJ or Madonna?? But that question would never be asked because its obvious Janet Jackson couldn't buy a hit now even if it was free. As long as MJ
doesn’t release something one can always speculate about the grandiose nature of the next masterpiece, so the question is: who is more desperate for a hit?? MJ or JJ??

It certainly isn’t Madonna, it’s not a question of her next song being a hit, it’s a question of how big of a hit is it going to be??? Where will it land on the charts?? How big will the tour be??? What will the set look like?? (I know that’s important to Madonna fans).These are issues discussed when an artist is doing well.

The big difference here, beyond the receptivity of the all knowledgeable and well versed casual music listener, is the question of will. In this case, the willful ability to manipulate one’s own career. Jermaine Jackson said Michael wrote on a piece paper that he would have the biggest selling album of all time, and that this affirmation was posted above his bed. Whatever cosmic forces (many will site the big K word) have conspired against the Jackson’s, their magic is now impotent; their willful intent to enact positive results in their career has faltered. Maybe some of you don’t believe in such things, whatever the case may be, the Jackson certainly has had a turn of bad luck, a reversal of career fortune.

Madonna is willful person, not a perpetual victim, or a whining submissive aging tease (guess who I’m talking about); her approach is what sets her apart from Michael Jackson more than anything else. Either MJ doesn’t have the technical ability to perform (he also needs to work out physically), or it’s all in his head. Either way, the only one truly desperate for an MJ hit, are MJ fans.

Who wants to bet Madonna will have released her 3rd single from the next album before we even see a release date for this MJ opus?

[Edited 8/12/07 8:21am]

To be honest, I feel sorry for the Jacksons. They've had so much success but they've also been unfortunate enough to have bad luck like you stated, lilgish. Whether it be Michael, his surgeries, his conduct with how he deals with society and what it almost cost him or the many lawsuits he continues to get on a daily basis. With Janet, one body part altered the course of her career and one little man who's been her boyfriend for a good five years doesn't know what to do with her. I think with Janet, she's determined (maybe even desperate) to find a hit. MJ's desperate to get out of the shit that he keeps getting into. When your goals go beyond your wildest expectations, I don't find it at all shocking as to what has happened to Mike. Unfortunate as it is, we don't truly know when or if we would even get to hear a new Michael song. I just don't want him to keep making promises he can't keep. I'm optimistic he may come out with something but at the same time I won't be disappointed if he decides to hang it up. In those regards, I would say neither is desperate for a hit (neither MJ nor Madonna) when I think about it.

Madonna has no talent. She's no Mariah, Michael, Prince, or Elvis.

lilgish said:

A lot of good points made. That the people who are most desperate for a MJ hit are MJ fans -- not MJ -- speaks volumes, as you pointed out, about how much drive and ability to manipulate his own career MJ has lost over the past decade.

Another thing: the fact that some Madonna fans truly believe in her superior technical musical and dancing abilities tells me (as I should have known all along -- damn my tunnel vision) that sometimes it is never just about the music.

musicismydrug said:

I think this thread has prove in spades that while Madonna is not musically proficient, her drive and ruthlessness makes her much more relevant than Mariah Carey.

Rodya24 said:

I was under the impression that while stories of the great musicians (Marvin Gaye comes to mind) of the past add to their persona, it is their music above all that we marvel at and continue to take pleasure in. The fame and commerical success that some of them had the blessing (or curse) to partake in their own lifetime have often been short-lived. Does that make their music any less enjoyable? I hope not.

Rodya24 said:

Mariah Carey is merely a voice. She has no distinguishable music persona, she's merely vocally talented. She's really the perfect American Idol type: vapid, pretty, racially ambiguous, crossover.....

I liked Mariah's persona when she was marketed as the girl next door, her recent persona, public or private, really has no substance, or even a little intrigue like Madonna.

When I see Mariah, I just want to help her some how. this is the second or third phase of Mariah's career, let's see how she fairs on the next two albums?

Rodya24 said:

No not really but you just wish you could help that artist sometimes! I know sometimes when I hear Marvin's story, I wish I was close enough to shake the shit out of the brother and help him out, same with Michael when he was younger. But that wouldn't help though. I think the stories of so many pop, rock and soul stars are a testament to how we know what NOT to do. Marvin was the prime example: he lived a reckless life but his music and his life gave us lessons, he was teaching while he was suffering - that was/is his genius. His suffering made brilliant art.

lilgish said:

I was comparing the track list of Madonna's The Immaculate Collection to that of Mariah's #1s, and I realized that the former has crafted a number of fun dance records -- unlike Mariah whose work seems to aim for the blandness of elevator music.