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Question about Kool & the Gang's Cherish Ok, I have this one question about K&G's "Cherish" (1984). I think this song could've been ghost-written and ghost-produced by DeBarge (including the background vocals) because that song sounded JUST like a DeBarge song! Of course nothing K&G did in the mid-'80s ever sounded like a Kool & the Gang song but "Cherish" definitely had that DeBarge sound to it, am I the only one who think that? You could tell none of the members of the Gang sung background on it. Didn't they (with the exception of JT, of course) hate this song? | |
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SoulAlive said: I don't know but something about that song screams "Who's Holding Donna Now" DeBarge and a little "All This Love". | |
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It could have been or maybe K & the G was just trying something different (they did that alot in the 80's)
They may have written it to sound like a more smoother sing. PRINCE: Always and Forever
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LittleBLUECorvette said: It could have been or maybe K & the G was just trying something different (they did that alot in the 80's)
They may have written it to sound like a more smoother sing. True... it just sounds DeBarge-esque to me. Which saddens me when compared to their '70s stuff. They were actually "original" albeit influenced by the JB's but still... And I love DeBarge but you can tell even funk bands were influenced by the group to get a smoother sound to cross over much notably on the pop charts. [Edited 7/28/07 21:24pm] | |
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I never read anything about members of Kool and the Gang hating "Cherish," but given the mawkish nature of the song I could understand. The song was recorded in the Bahamas, where several songs from the "Emergency" album were recorded and was written to be an inspirational song while the group was relaxing there, according to "The Billboard Book of Number One Rhythm & Blues Hits." Robert Bell wrote the music while James "J.T." Taylor wrote the lyrics.
I always thought the background vocals had a DeBarge-type feel to them myself (I believe J.T. sang all the vocals on the song), but not to the extent that Eldra and/or his siblings actually had a hand in the song. [Edited 8/1/07 19:43pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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i don't think it was ghost written, but hey anything's possible. they were one of the only 70s holdover groups to have some 80s chart success. what's bugged is that i actually like Fresh and Miss Lead. | |
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datdude said: i don't think it was ghost written, but hey anything's possible. they were one of the only 70s holdover groups to have some 80s chart success. what's bugged is that i actually like Fresh and Miss Lead.
Yeah, Kool & The Gang were the most successful soul band/group of the 1980s. I liked a lot of their songs during the James "J.T." Taylor run -- ironically, "Cherish" is one of their songs I thought was  .THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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I think K&TG were trying to build on their "white" audience with Cherish. If u listen to all of their singles after Celebration, they went totally white. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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why did JT Taylor leave them? Ok ego probably, but why not come back???? | |
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According to Kool & the Gang purists from the '70s, J.T. "stanked" up the joint but not in a good way. They said because of J.T., the band went into a more pop mood in the eighties.
They're the R&B version of Chicago actually. Chicago was basically ROCK & ROLL with blues and soul ingrained in them until the early-'80s when they basically became a soft rock band. Same thing happened to Kool & the Gang. They were FUNK with jazz, gospel and soul ingrained in them until J.T. came to the picture. They were OK for a while ("Ladies Night" and "Too Hot" remain my all-time favorite J.T.-led joints) but as the eighties wore on, they got more and more poppy. [Edited 7/30/07 16:10pm] | |
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In all fairness, without James "J.T." Taylor Kool and The Gang likely would not have survived. The group had gone several years without a hit song and Ronald Bell said he was on the verge of leaving the band before J.T. joined.
People tend to look at the 1970s Kool & The Gang with rose-colored glasses and the 1980s model with disdain, but they keep overlooking how the music styles had changed from the wilder, socially conscious sounds of the early to mid-1970s to the more electronic, softer styles of the early 1980s. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: In all fairness, without James "J.T." Taylor Kool and The Gang likely would not have survived. The group had gone several years without a hit song and Ronald Bell said he was on the verge of leaving the band before J.T. joined.
People tend to look at the 1970s Kool & The Gang with rose-colored glasses and the 1980s model with disdain, but they keep overlooking how the music styles had changed from the wilder, socially conscious sounds of the early to mid-1970s to the more electronic, softer styles of the early 1980s. I agree.If Kool and The Gang had stuck with their hardcore funk/jazzy sound of the 70s,they would have never survived in the 80s.Other funk bands from that era (Cameo,Earth Wind and Fire,Bar Kays,etc) also made changes to their sound,and they had to.Times were changing. | |
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btw,I never liked the song "Cherish".They had much better ballads/slow jams from this era:
"September Love" (1983) "No Show" (1981) "Jones Vs.Jones" (1980) all three of those songs are better than the sappy "Cherish" | |
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daPrettyman said: I think K&TG were trying to build on their "white" audience with Cherish. If u listen to all of their singles after Celebration, they went totally white.
That's not entirely true  Come on...singles like "Get Down On It","Take My Heart","Steppin Out","Big Fun" and "Fresh" are solid R&B jams.
"Joanna" and rock-flavored tracks like "Misled" and "Tonight" are probably the most pop-sounding stuff they ever did,but they never really left R&B behind. | |
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ElectricBlue said: why did JT Taylor leave them? Ok ego probably, but why not come back????
JT left in 1987 and embarked on a solo career.Sadly,his only big hit as a solo artist was "All I Want Is Forever",a nice duet with Regina Belle.For their part,Kool and The Gang hired two new lead singers to replace JT,but their subsequent albums bombed as well.In the mid-90s,JT rejoined the band for the 'State Of Affairs' CD and a tour.However,he angrily left the band again a few years later.I recall an interview from the late 90s (or early 2000s) where a pissed-off JT complained about Kool and the Gang's management....he felt that he and the other guys were being ripped off.At this point,a JT/Kool and The Gang reunion doesn't seem likely  Kool and the Gang just released a brand new CD and they still tour regularly. | |
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ElectricBlue said: why did JT Taylor leave them? Ok ego probably, but why not come back????
JT left in 1987 and embarked on a solo career.Sadly,his only big hit as a solo artist was "All I Want Is Forever",a nice duet with Regina Belle.For their part,Kool and The Gang hired two new lead singers to replace JT,but their subsequent albums bombed as well.In the mid-90s,JT rejoined the band for the 'State Of Affairs' CD and a tour.However,he angrily left the band again a few years later.I recall an interview from the late 90s (or early 2000s) where a pissed-off JT complained about Kool and the Gang's management....he felt that he and the other guys were being ripped off.At this point,a JT/Kool and The Gang reunion doesn't seem likely Kool and the Gang just released a brand new CD and they still tour regularly. | |
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SoulAlive said: I agree.If Kool and The Gang had stuck with their hardcore funk/jazzy sound of the 70s,they would have never survived in the 80s.Other funk bands from that era (Cameo,Earth Wind and Fire,Bar Kays,etc) also made changes to their sound,and they had to.Times were changing.
As it was, Kool & The Gang almost didn't survive the 1970s. By the time James "J.T." Taylor joined the group, the band had not had a hit in several years. People like to forget that by the time "Ladies Night" came out in 1979, acts like Earth, Wind & Fire ("Boogie Wonderland," "After the Love Is Gone"), The Commodores ("Three Times a Lady," "Still") and The Isley Brothers ("I Wanna Be with You," "It's a Disco Night") already had eschewed their funk roots. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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SoulAlive said: daPrettyman said: I think K&TG were trying to build on their "white" audience with Cherish. If u listen to all of their singles after Celebration, they went totally white.
That's not entirely true Come on...singles like "Get Down On It","Take My Heart","Steppin Out","Big Fun" and "Fresh" are solid R&B jams.
"Joanna" and rock-flavored tracks like "Misled" and "Tonight" are probably the most pop-sounding stuff they ever did,but they never really left R&B behind. I agree also with you on Kool & The Gang's 1980s sound. They tried different styles regularly -- "Misled" was a hard rock-influenced tune, "Joanna" had a touch of the 1950s doo-wop harmonies. "Ladies Night" and "Celebration" were party songs, while "Big Fun" was more of a homage to their 1970s style. Kool & The Gang did make some obvious pop songs ("Cherish" and "Victory," which sounds like something they hoped would become an Olympics theme song), but songs like "Take My Heart (You Can Have It)," "Fresh," "Get Down on It" and "Too Hot" (my favorite ballad from the J.T. era) did have a pop/soul flavor to them, not unlike what The Jacksons/Michael Jackson was doing in the late 1970s, early 1980s. [Edited 8/1/07 19:49pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: SoulAlive said: I agree.If Kool and The Gang had stuck with their hardcore funk/jazzy sound of the 70s,they would have never survived in the 80s.Other funk bands from that era (Cameo,Earth Wind and Fire,Bar Kays,etc) also made changes to their sound,and they had to.Times were changing.
As it was, Kool & The Gang almost didn't survive the 1970s. By the time James "J.T." Taylor joined the group, the band had not had a hit in several years. People like to forget that by the time "Ladies Night" came out in 1979, acts like Earth, Wind & Fire ("Boogie Wonderland," "After the Love Is Gone"), The Commodores ("Three Times a Lady," "Still") and The Isley Brothers ("I Wanna Be with You," "It's a Disco Night") already had eschewed their funk roots.  these bands all did what they had to do to survive.The disco era basically forced them to change course. | |
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SoulAlive said: these bands all did what they had to do to survive.The disco era basically forced them to change course.The ironic thing is that Earth, Wind & Fire, The Commodores and The Isley Brothers were still prominent acts when they made the changes in their musical approach. Kool and The Gang was struggling commercially and critically prior to their change. Yet EWF, The Commodores and The Isleys never got nearly the flak Kool and The Gang got for making the move. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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SoulAlive said: btw,I never liked the song "Cherish".They had much better ballads/slow jams from this era:
"September Love" (1983) "No Show" (1981) "Jones Vs.Jones" (1980) all three of those songs are better than the sappy "Cherish" I actually liked bad woman from the emergency album better than cherish. The cherish remix actually sounded a little better but the album version was just crappy. Don't laugh at my funk
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SoulAlive said: Najee said: As it was, Kool & The Gang almost didn't survive the 1970s. By the time James "J.T." Taylor joined the group, the band had not had a hit in several years. People like to forget that by the time "Ladies Night" came out in 1979, acts like Earth, Wind & Fire ("Boogie Wonderland," "After the Love Is Gone"), The Commodores ("Three Times a Lady," "Still") and The Isley Brothers ("I Wanna Be with You," "It's a Disco Night") already had eschewed their funk roots. these bands all did what they had to do to survive.The disco era basically forced them to change course.That is why i have a lot of respect for the barkays and cameo. They both basically said F.U to disco and kept on funkin. Don't laugh at my funk
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Timmy84 said: According to Kool & the Gang purists from the '70s, J.T. "stanked" up the joint but not in a good way. They said because of J.T., the band went into a more pop mood in the eighties.
They're the R&B version of Chicago actually. Chicago was basically ROCK & ROLL with blues and soul ingrained in them until the early-'80s when they basically became a soft rock band. Same thing happened to Kool & the Gang. They were FUNK with jazz, gospel and soul ingrained in them until J.T. came to the picture. They were OK for a while ("Ladies Night" and "Too Hot" remain my all-time favorite J.T.-led joints) but as the eighties wore on, they got more and more poppy. [Edited 7/30/07 16:10pm] I actually liked the jt w/kool & the gang era better but they complemented each other well. JT sucked as a solo act and kool didn't fare any better without jt. Kool and the gang still made some grooving tunes during the jt era but they did become a little poppy and that was basically due to the overwhelming success of celebration. And face it j.t just had a voice that was so smooth that even the pop audience could appreciate. As far as your earlier quote about the jt and the band stanking it up but not in a good way. I the band follow evelyn champagne king and the barkays on stage back in the early 80's and both acts electrified the crowd and kool and the gang while good just couldn't match the performance and the crowd started leaving early. The barkays were a tough act to follow on stage during their heyday. Don't laugh at my funk
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phunkdaddy said: That is why i have a lot of respect for the barkays and cameo. They both basically said F.U to disco and kept on funkin.
On the flip side, Kool & The Gang was the most successful soul band/group in the 1980s and enjoyed more commercial success than they did in the 1970s. Having the foresight to change before being forced into extinction has to be taken into consideration. [Edited 8/6/07 18:39pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: phunkdaddy said: That is why i have a lot of respect for the barkays and cameo. They both basically said F.U to disco and kept on funkin.
On the flip side, Kool & The Gang was the most successful soul band/group in the 1980s and enjoyed more commercial success than they did in the 1970s. Having the foresight to change before being forced into extinction has to be taken into consideration. That may be true but Kool's '80s period still gets looked on as an embarrassment to a group many purists associate it with as one of the baddest funk and jazz bands that ever existed. | |
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phunkdaddy said: Timmy84 said: According to Kool & the Gang purists from the '70s, J.T. "stanked" up the joint but not in a good way. They said because of J.T., the band went into a more pop mood in the eighties.
They're the R&B version of Chicago actually. Chicago was basically ROCK & ROLL with blues and soul ingrained in them until the early-'80s when they basically became a soft rock band. Same thing happened to Kool & the Gang. They were FUNK with jazz, gospel and soul ingrained in them until J.T. came to the picture. They were OK for a while ("Ladies Night" and "Too Hot" remain my all-time favorite J.T.-led joints) but as the eighties wore on, they got more and more poppy. [Edited 7/30/07 16:10pm] I actually liked the jt w/kool & the gang era better but they complemented each other well. JT sucked as a solo act and kool didn't fare any better without jt. Kool and the gang still made some grooving tunes during the jt era but they did become a little poppy and that was basically due to the overwhelming success of celebration. And face it j.t just had a voice that was so smooth that even the pop audience could appreciate. As far as your earlier quote about the jt and the band stanking it up but not in a good way. I the band follow evelyn champagne king and the barkays on stage back in the early 80's and both acts electrified the crowd and kool and the gang while good just couldn't match the performance and the crowd started leaving early. The barkays were a tough act to follow on stage during their heyday. HA! So that proves my point: Kool & the Gang in the '80s didn't produce no good stank, people just wasn't FEELING them like that, bump a JT. I know JT is a great singer...but he was in the wrong group to begin with. Yeah, maybe they did need a JT Taylor to spice them up, I agree they were in dire straits at the time but Kool had a soul when they first started, when JT came, SLOWLY but surely it started to tend into some mess. They DID have fine songs though: "Take My Heart" "Too Hot", I do dig "Misled", but all the other songs (well "Joanna" is kind of cool too in a doo-wop way) blow to me.  Not trying to do pin the tail on the donkey but these guys still could've found ways to remain funky like the Bar-Kays and Cameo did. | |
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Najee said: phunkdaddy said: That is why i have a lot of respect for the barkays and cameo. They both basically said F.U to disco and kept on funkin.
On the flip side, Kool & The Gang was the most successful soul band/group in the 1980s and enjoyed more commercial success than they did in the 1970s. Having the foresight to change before being forced into extinction has to be taken into consideration.
The cool thing is,fans have two Kool and The Gang eras to enjoy: the 70s albums which focused on hardcore funk and jazzy rhythms.....and the 80s albums,which focused on smooth funk,R&B and pop. | |
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