When I read a few hints concerning Madonna's next album, and saw that she was going for the Euro-dance scene again, I cringed.

I am someone who really likes Madonna and have enjoyed a lot of her back catalogue - however, I think she is shunning her own talent.

Her albums "Ray of Light," "American Life" and "Bedtime Stories," show a more glowing, sophisticated side to Madonna, and it is THAT side of her which I love, and which keeps me a fan.... But why does she insist on returning to dance shit?

My theory? She knows she has talent, she knows she wants to grow mature and show off a more meaningful side of her music, but she is scared to alienate the fans who still ejaculate over VOGUE and HOLIDAY.
Isn't it telling that Madonna releases Ray of Light... something deep and beautiful, then she throws in a dance album (Music)..... THEN she releases acoustic album American Life and gets scared of losing her fans so she releases Confessions on The Dancefloor....
She is nearing her 50's now. Surely someone as savvy and business-like as Madonna knows when it's time to hang up the leotard and start pulling out good songs!

Fiona01 said:

Interesting analysis.

She projected the commercial image for so long though that I think that it would be damn near impossible for her to really be taken seriously as a mature singer/songwriter/musician.

Fiona01 said:

you need to relisten to Music if you think it's just a dance album

I Deserve It, Nobody's Perfect, Gone, Don't Tell Me, Paradise, What It Feels Like For A Girl

okay, 'MUSIC' can be seen as more than a dance album because it actually does contain some beautiful tracks... That's true.....
But you see the point I am making? Compare Bedtime Stories to Music... Or Ray of Light to Confessions on a Dancefloor... or American Life etc.....

She seems to continually battlings between her superstar ego and her personal talent which has really shone through beautifully at times; such as on the songs "Nothing Fails," "Substitute for Love" and "Easy Ride."

Her latest offering of HUNG UP, catchy as hell though it was, cheapens the extent of her talent...and is frustrating to watch as a fan of hers.

It boils down to 2 things...What her fans want and Money. American Life, while having some really good songs on it...actually a few of her best, was not met with critical praise and some of her hardcore fans didn't like it. I know of a few who thought Madonna's music wasn't good anymore and basically wrote her off. I am sure that for these few I knew, there were many who felt the same way. I retrospect, I think AL is very underrated.

I do see what you're getting at though. I think it's more in the lyrical content, which in turn affects the musical. ROL was very rich in it's lyrical content and the music reflected this. Even though it is a commercial and critical success, her next album, Music seemed out of place with it's very simple lyrics and music to boot. Then coming back with AL, which was also rich in lyrical content and musically complex. AL "bombs" and she comes back with Confessions, almost the antithesis of AL. Many of her fans rejoiced with Confessions, including myself, as a return to form. Not that it was really, but it was the most solid effort she had put out since ROL, and I think that's what the fans liked. If the album was all dance but sucked, I doubt this would be the case.

Now...Madonna's talent. I don't think it's a musical talent...though she does have a good ear. I thinkthe talent one hears on her albums is the producer. She has a talent for choosing good producers.

IMO, as long as the music is good, I'll probably enjoy it no matter what "genre" it happens to be in.

Maybe Madonna likes dance music. It doesn't make sense to me to say an artist isn't using their talent because they enjoy writing and performing a different genre of music than the type of music you prefer. Why are songs with acoustic guitars in your mind more credible than electronic based dance music?

She used to have talent, but dumped it for D&G outfits, copycat photography and stage shows where the real talenthides behind the curtains. She used to have a voice, maybe not that good but better than that harsh stiff faux English accent she has now. She also learnt how to dance, when was the last time you saw her put it into practice, now all you get is those boring yoga moves.

Her image/reinventions are of those forgotten stars of the past, nothing that shows Madonna as Madonna but as Marilyn Monroe and other Hollywood greats. I what something original from her, something that has not been done before.

As for her music, I don’t mind the dance music I think it works best for her, yet Secret is a classic track. I loathe Ray of Light, thats one of the worst albums in my collection. That Electonic Folk stuff really got the worst of her . Her best was her first and I don’t see her topping that one any time soon. Oh yeah she some singing lessons too, she sounds cold and rigid.

So maybe shes forgot she has done some pretty cool things but is to busy trying to take over the world with books, clothing and other products, she needs to sit and stick to one thing.
[Edited 7/27/07 13:37pm]

superspaceboy said:

Madonna also is a good producer. She is able to those producers into making a pop song. Put in Mirwais' Production and listen to her Music. You'll see the influence she yelids in the studio.

Fiona01 said:

I can't compare because my views on what her better albums are. LAP, Erotica, Music AL and Confessions are differnt from you.

I kinda have issues with this, though I see where this thread is coming from. Ray of Light was one of those once in a career albums. She had alot to prove, and she was in a very positive part of life. So that in effect created what's probably her most artistic effort.

Music was something very different from ROL, I thought. Technically, it was a good album. My beef with it though is that it was a bit of a schizophrenic beast, which is why I reject the notion that it was a dance album per say. One minute she was doing dancefloor anthems, the neXt she was doing the whole folktronica thing.Had she been more consistant, the album would have been better.

American Life, while having some truly brilliant songs, was also a bit of a sudden turnaround. Though I never wrote the album off, even I was a bit taken aback. While I feel that, in retrospect, it was given way too much shit, it still had it's turds like "Im So Stupid", and in the grand scheme of things, it really affected her career in a negative way. All of a sudden, Madonna wasn't really hip anymore, That said, I kinda admire the fact that she had the balls to put out something radically different, even if it may have left a bad taste in the mouths of many.

Enter COADF...she needed to make an album like this. She needed to remind people why she was still relevant. Nevermind that it was her returning to her dance roots 100%. It was her best album since ROL. Maybe it didnt have alot of depth to it lyrically, but musically it was her most consistant and enjoyable album in a long while. Even with very little support from US mainstream radio, it still benefited from alot of great reviews and word of mouth, hence the reason sales were really good(if not excellent).

I think people really underestimate Madonna even today. Vocally, she's not a great singer, but she's not a bad one either. She's just capable. She's certainly better than people like Janet. But she has a really great talent for picking great people to work with, and the fact that she STILL has a hands on approach rather than being a puppet shows alot, as u still hear Madonna's message.

That's why Im not too worried about her working with Timbo and JT for her next album.

ehuffnsd said:

I'd like to see her do an album with no outside producers and then we could see what power she really holds in the studio. Sure, give her an engineer and someone who can help with the switches and levers in the studio, but leave her alone to actually create the music.

newskin69 said:

Opinions! Opinions! I knew it was coming. Funny, you mention Janet out of an array of female artists that's been out. She certainly is NOT better than people like Janet. My opinion in response to yours. It's all good to give credit to the artist you like or perhaps even truly love without taking or insulting one that rivals who YOU happen to dig. Madonna's more pop and Janet's more R&B. That doesn't make Madonna better.

DawnD said:

BULL SHIT Janet is as r&b artist as Madonna is an electronica artist

both are pop stars who are influenced from other genres.

ehuffnsd said:

Okay. And... Madonna was a pop artist long before she'd gotten into electronica. Nothing electronica is on her first several albums. But, so what?

DawnD said:

Madonna was a dance artist first than a pop act.

superspaceboy said:

Me too i would like to see this happen, and I don't think it would go well.
Mariah on the other hand would do a great job if left alone in a studio, Madonna
needs someone to do the job. She says what she wants, and the producer does it.
[Edited 7/27/07 15:18pm]

ehuffnsd said:

I disagree with this. I think her first album was very up-tempo, but it was always with the pop market in mind.

paper said:

IMO, I think it'd be a disaster.

Mariah in the studio alone would be worse.

superspaceboy said:

Seymour Stein wanted it to popmarket.

superspaceboy said:

Well if Mariah is a great song writer, which I think she is and co-producers tracks I think she would do a great job, mostly on ballads tho.

paper said:

Mariah's co-producing could simply be her listening and saying what she likes and doesn't.

I hate when people naysay my favorite Madonna album AMERICAN life...

Fiona I love ur avatar

Fiona01 said:

Madonna never makes the same album twice,which makes it fun and interesting to follow her career.I'm pretty sure that this new CD she's working on will sound nothing like 'Confessions'.

Remember not so long ago,Madonna was flirting with the idea of making an album of ballads? Remember the rumors of her making a rock album? I think she is truly interested in doing something totally different,but let's face it,she really can't venture too far from dance music.That's where her fanbase is.These days,the majority of her fanbase wants to hear dance music from her.I think the most she can do is....balance it all out.That seems to be what's she doing with the new album.There will be some Euro-dance tracks,some R&B,a few rock tunes,and ballads (from what I've heard).

To me Madonna NEVER had any raw talent. What she does have, however, is a great work ethic and a talent for promoting her self.

ehuffnsd said:

whatsgoingon said:

bingo...and a good ear for what's hip.

whatsgoingon said:

This is the conventional wisdom about Madonna that people repeat over and over and that they read in the media. But it's not true. If you think about things logically, you can promote all you want and work super hard, but at the end of the day if you dont' make music that people enjoy and is good, you will go nowhere. Madonna has had so many hits, won Grammys etc, but people refuse to acknowledge she has talent as a singer and a songwriter. It really annoys me. She writes great pop songs, and although she may not have the biggest range, her voice has a beautiful expressive tone. How can people watch a performance like she gave at Live Earth, and say she has no talent. I really don't understand it.

<----totally contemplates creating mj and madge new album and general discussion stickies...

superspaceboy said:

But it doesnt. Don't down Mariah's abilities to excuse Madonnan's shortcomings as an artist.