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Printablewhatsgoingon said: waw2002 said: I could deal with his dancing not being very crisp, but he was completely off time at some parts. Oh and I saw some bootlegs of Billie Jean from the concert (which was supposed to be the worst night) and he looked like he didn't know what the hell he was doing. I believe he was trying to attempt the carlton dance. You see the problems stems from the dancing. Always trying to do fancy footwork is going to compromise his other main talent, his singing. Michael is older now, apart from his hardcore fans who see him as a dancer first and foremost, most reasonable people will not expect him to be dancing exactly with the same sharpness and flair as he did during the Thriller years. Therefore he needs to minimize the dancing and work on his voice. This does not mean not dancing at all, but keep it simple and just dance, not remake a whole video on stage. i agree with that I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: 1. He trained with riggs for vocal recording, and to expand his vbocal range which he did. The Inviuncible sessions were done for nearly 8 months. And recording vocal strength is entirely different live recording strength. Recording sessions tend to be only 1 to 2 hours long, with alot of breaks so you can get the singers best performance. It's certainly not gonna wrm you up for longevity singing. 2. the quality in his voice changed because he was pursuing a different style of music after Bad which was a Rock style, which actually needs more care and is intensely more difficult than a R&B Mouthhorn. The Bad tour itself at the end trashed his voice during the end because of all the nights he was Distorting his voice. The Dangerous Tour Vocals sucked because the mic setup was cheap. It was the begginning of those god awful Headphone mics in the place of the traditional Dynamics. And i guess vocal talent was replaced with parlor tricks. I guess the record company decided that the fans probably can't hear him anyway, so it wouldn't matter. And the Touring game is not about singing, when it came to mj, it was about money and putting on a show. I don't like it, but that is what he's been reduced too... An Unplugged set would be ideal for him. No dancing so he could fully concentrate on vocals. And too show assholes like you, that he can sing. I really hate fans like you, Been a fan all your life, But because MJ has dissapointed you for so long, you've become disgruntled. Like Krayzle, he's a disgruntled MJ fan. He probably loves him more than anyone... If you're gonna rip MJ, Rip his music, which sucks now, but saying he can't sing thats just plain dumb. Mj is one of the few artist that has perfect pitch... c'mon now, [Edited 7/27/07 14:59pm] You're getting way too emotional and personal. You claimed earlier that you were objective, but it's clear from the tone of your posts and your elaborate excuses that you are not. You've also told some outright lies. You said he only mimed YRMW, but it's clear that he was miming several other songs too. You admitted yourself that you're not totally sure. You said he only mimed YRMW because he couldn't remember the words. How the hell do you know that? Did Michael say that? Did any of Michael's people say that? Of course not. Once again fans are inventing excuses. Are you seriously saying that Michael is so mentally deficient he can't even remember the words to one new song? Please. I don't think think you have any idea how irrational you make yourself look when you come out with these excuses. You admit his voice declined on the Bad Tour. But, hey it's just his new style, right?. You admit he sounded bad on the Dangerous tour, but hey it's not his fault it's just the "cheap" microphones. You don't think he can afford to get a decent microphone? Do you have any idea how weak an excuse that is? Then you turn around and blame the record company for it. Dude, with all due respect you are not being serious. What's your excuse for History 97? That was the worst he ever sounded. Who's fault was it, the weather gods? Uri Geller for sending out bad vibes? And why is none of that footage on Youtube? What about the screeching high notes on You Rock My World MSG? Or do you think that sounded good?  Here's a performance from Terence Trent D'arby http://www.youtube.com/wa...Qxc7L07Rrs Take a good look. This is what a real singer sounds like live. It's only two and a half minutes so it shouldn't stretch your attention span too much. If Michael could just do one performance like this then we wouldn't be having this discussion, because there would be no question mark about his abilities.
[Edited 7/28/07 4:17am] [Edited 7/28/07 4:43am] [Edited 7/28/07 4:59am] [Edited 7/28/07 5:18am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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whatsgoingon said: Talk for yourself. I was a fan well before Thriller, it wasn't Motown 25th that made me a fan, as good as it was. As I said I prefer Don't Blame it on the Boogie to Remember The Time. I prefer the Don't Stop till you Get Enough video to The Way You Make me feel video. Whether he had done Thriller or not, I would have been a fan because from the beginning I appreciated him as a singer first and foremost and secondly as a dancer. I always felt Michael was a great dancer well before Motown 25th and Thriller, and when it comes to the funk I believe he had it more back in the day than in more recent years, where there is alot of great, fancy, foot work but the sass and funk has gone. And quite frankly he way cooler as an artist during his Off The Wall era, than anything he did after Thriller.!! [Edited 7/27/07 12:49pm] [Edited 7/27/07 15:10pm] I think most people comparing any 1975 MJ performance with the outright genius of his Grammys 88 The Way You Make Me Feel performance or Motown 25 would agree that he improved massively over the years. He obviously worked hard to grow, improve, and innovate (even if he did borrow from Bob Fosse  ). That hard work paid off. Big time. That doesn't mean I don't still enjoy the innocence and sheer fun of his mid 70s performances. But there's nothing in the Mexico 75 performance that makes you go "Wow!". Whereas in his 80s peak he was nothing short of a "Wow!" merchant. People paid good money just to make them go "Wow!" lol. That's the difference. I ain't talking about special effects and gimmicks either. I'm just talking about his incredible style. Michael was a king in those days, whereas in 75 he was just a nice kid giving nice performances. It's great that you enjoy that. I do too, but Michael was only beginning to find himself at that point.
Now if you're talikng about videos that's a whole 'nother conversation; lol “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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ProgRocker said: krayzie said: Bla bla bla bla Here's the truth : Way you make me feel 1988 http://www.youtube.com/wa...1ITnvLzO4s Way you make me feel 2001 http://www.youtube.com/wa...HNvtF8hH2Y Now what ???? So what? 
That's a 13/14 year difference. Michael was in his prime (physically wise) back then. He's now pushing 50...surely you can't think that he'll still have the same voice he had when he was 27. People's voices change when they get older, including celebrities. And I actually love his singing in this version. It's lower, but it's not bad; he still has a very strong voice. [Edited 7/27/07 20:17pm] Oh really ? People voices change now ? So tell me why Prince doesn't sing his old songs MUCH lower and deeper like that ???? Michael's voice has DRASTICALLY CHANGED. It's WAY lower. Completely different. And you can't hear at the end how he can't even hit the highest notes. Terrible. The 2001's performance is partly mimmed. It's obvious. Terrible. It sounds forced. He can't sing anymore. And if you want I can bring you all the history performances and Dangerous performances just to see how his voice turned bad. I brought the thruth. Your Michael Jackson CAN'T SING ANYMORE. Period. |
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midnightmover said: whatsgoingon said: Talk for yourself. I was a fan well before Thriller, it wasn't Motown 25th that made me a fan, as good as it was. As I said I prefer Don't Blame it on the Boogie to Remember The Time. I prefer the Don't Stop till you Get Enough video to The Way You Make me feel video. Whether he had done Thriller or not, I would have been a fan because from the beginning I appreciated him as a singer first and foremost and secondly as a dancer. I always felt Michael was a great dancer well before Motown 25th and Thriller, and when it comes to the funk I believe he had it more back in the day than in more recent years, where there is alot of great, fancy, foot work but the sass and funk has gone. And quite frankly he way cooler as an artist during his Off The Wall era, than anything he did after Thriller.!! [Edited 7/27/07 12:49pm] [Edited 7/27/07 15:10pm] I think most people comparing any 1975 MJ performance with the outright genius of his Grammys 88 The Way You Make Me Feel performance or Motown 25 would agree that he improved massively over the years. He obviously worked hard to grow, improve, and innovate (even if he did borrow from Bob Fosse ). That hard work paid off. Big time. That doesn't mean I don't still enjoy the innocence and sheer fun of his mid 70s performances. But there's nothing in the Mexico 75 performance that makes you go "Wow!". Whereas in his 80s peak he was nothing short of a "Wow!" merchant. People paid good money just to make them go "Wow!" lol. That's the difference. I ain't talking about special effects and gimmicks either. I'm just talking about his incredible style. Michael was a king in those days, whereas in 75 he was just a nice kid giving nice performances. It's great that you enjoy that. I do too, but Michael was only beginning to find himself at that point.
Now if you're talikng about videos that's a whole 'nother conversation; lol Those preformances were great, but even by the 1988 performance Michael had lost something. If you look at the Jacksons shows, his foot work wasn't has fancy, but there was something elese in it's place, called funk and sass. Michael from the Bad era onwards footwork became more fancy, sophsticated and highly polished, but I doubt by then he could get down and truely groove. By the time we get to Dangerous everything was about the dance at the expense of his singing and his more natural style. The sad thing about it, is inspite of the Bad tours( which was his best solo tour) and his subsequent tours, fans and critics who have seen his solo tours as well as the tours he did with his brothers, still believe that his best tour was the Triumph tour, that in its self says something went amiss. | |
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whatsgoingon said: midnightmover said: I think most people comparing any 1975 MJ performance with the outright genius of his Grammys 88 The Way You Make Me Feel performance or Motown 25 would agree that he improved massively over the years. He obviously worked hard to grow, improve, and innovate (even if he did borrow from Bob Fosse ). That hard work paid off. Big time. That doesn't mean I don't still enjoy the innocence and sheer fun of his mid 70s performances. But there's nothing in the Mexico 75 performance that makes you go "Wow!". Whereas in his 80s peak he was nothing short of a "Wow!" merchant. People paid good money just to make them go "Wow!" lol. That's the difference. I ain't talking about special effects and gimmicks either. I'm just talking about his incredible style. Michael was a king in those days, whereas in 75 he was just a nice kid giving nice performances. It's great that you enjoy that. I do too, but Michael was only beginning to find himself at that point.
Now if you're talikng about videos that's a whole 'nother conversation; lol Those preformances were great, but even by the 1988 performance Michael had lost something. If you look at the Jacksons shows, his foot work wasn't has fancy, but there was something elese in it's place, called funk and sass. Michael from the Bad era onwards footwork became more fancy, sophsticated and highly polished, but I doubt by then he could get down and truely groove. By the time we get to Dangerous everything was about the dance at the expense of his singing and his more natural style. The sad thing about it, is inspite of the Bad tours( which was his best solo tour) and his subsequent tours, fans and critics who have seen his solo tours as well as the tours he did with his brothers, still believe that his best tour was the Triumph tour, that in its self says something went amiss. Oh really ? http://www.youtube.com/wa...knzQjOen2M Michael Jackson was at his top in 1988. Period. You definitely smocking crack if you think he couldn't "groove". |
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Timmy84 said: ProgRocker said: Why can't he do both? Plenty of newer artists are coming out with unplugged albums, along with new material. Michael could do the same thing. Simple, he's afraid that no one's gonna dig it if he does it like that. But ain't that the point of being an artist: you have to do something completely different to build off your talent. The problem with Michael is that everything has to be BIG, it has to be or it fails and that's the problem, he tries doing something big, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I wish he could do both though. Despite a long illustrious career (38 years altogether this year as a professional recording artist), he's very limiting in what he's done since 1984. [Edited 7/27/07 16:10pm] It has to be big because that´s what ppl expect from him. LightOfArt said:
I cant imagine what's gonna happen to org if he releases an album The music section will probably be bombarded with MJ posts. That´s gonna be fun."When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said:[quote] Timmy84 said: It has to be big because that´s what ppl expect from him. LightOfArt said:
I cant imagine what's gonna happen to org if he releases an album The music section will probably be bombarded with MJ posts. That´s gonna be fun.EmbattledWarrior, plz post some MJ stories if your dad told you some. And couldn´t you arrange meeting with Mike through your dad somehow?  "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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krayzie said: Your Michael Jackson CAN'T SING ANYMORE. Period.
I see why your name is krayzie, lol. Just kidding, just kidding lol. I'm the crazy one for coming back into this thread. | |
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my lord. all the fun just got sucked out of this thread. Space for sale... | |
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whatsgoingon said: You see the problems stems from the dancing. Always trying to do fancy footwork is going to compromise his other main talent, his singing. Michael is older now, apart from his hardcore fans who see him as a dancer first and foremost, most reasonable people will not expect him to be dancing exactly with the same sharpness and flair as he did during the Thriller years. Therefore he needs to minimize the dancing and work on his voice. This does not mean not dancing at all, but keep it simple and just dance, not remake a whole video on stage. Well as long as he does the "Billie Jean' routine. Gotta have my 'Billie Jean'. Gotta, LOL. Well I think after Motown 25 and The Thriller Era, MOST people regarted Michael as a dancer first and foremost. His singing became secondary. And I think that remains today. It's not just hardcore fans. I think today MJ is still an awesome singer-dancer. I enjoyed 2001 MSG. I thought "Billie Jean' that night was amazin. And the following day EVERYONE was talking about that amzing BJ performance (even MJ hater Howard Stern said then that MJ was indeed Invincible). People in the audience were crying and going nuts then. So I don't get all the criticism about 2001. | |
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krayzie said: whatsgoingon said: Those preformances were great, but even by the 1988 performance Michael had lost something. If you look at the Jacksons shows, his foot work wasn't has fancy, but there was something elese in it's place, called funk and sass. Michael from the Bad era onwards footwork became more fancy, sophsticated and highly polished, but I doubt by then he could get down and truely groove. By the time we get to Dangerous everything was about the dance at the expense of his singing and his more natural style. The sad thing about it, is inspite of the Bad tours( which was his best solo tour) and his subsequent tours, fans and critics who have seen his solo tours as well as the tours he did with his brothers, still believe that his best tour was the Triumph tour, that in its self says something went amiss. Oh really ? http://www.youtube.com/wa...knzQjOen2M Michael Jackson was at his top in 1988. Period. You definitely smocking crack if you think he couldn't "groove". Well that's my opinion and I am sticking to it. From Thriller onwards alot of his stuff became highly, polish choregraphy. It's just that he did it better then anyone else. Infact my favourite performance from that whole Bad era was not the 1988 performance, it was the performance he put on during Moonwalker, of "Come together" and the reason why I loved that performance so much was the lack of choregraphy he basically just dancing, rather than doing lots of fancy foot work. | |
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whatsgoingon said: krayzie said: Oh really ? http://www.youtube.com/wa...knzQjOen2M Michael Jackson was at his top in 1988. Period. You definitely smocking crack if you think he couldn't "groove". Well that's my opinion and I am sticking to it. From Thriller onwards alot of his stuff became highly, polish choregraphy. It's just that he did it better then anyone else. Infact my favourite performance from that whole Bad era was not the 1988 performance, it was the performance he put on during Moonwalker, of "Come together" and the reason why I loved that performance so much was the lack of choregraphy he basically just dancing, rather than doing lots of fancy foot work. I just posted you a video of Michael Jakson grooving on Another Part of me in 1988. There's no choreography there. So what you said is plain wrong.
And concerning choreography, you must be ignorant because he has always done choreography since the beginning with his brothers. I Want you back was choreographed. [Edited 7/28/07 11:43am] |
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He was still "funky" during his "Bad" tour. And yes, his "Another Part of Me" performance was a perfect example of that but by the time he went on the road for "Dangerous" and "HIStory", it had started becoming too polished. | |
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krayzie said: whatsgoingon said: Well that's my opinion and I am sticking to it. From Thriller onwards alot of his stuff became highly, polish choregraphy. It's just that he did it better then anyone else. Infact my favourite performance from that whole Bad era was not the 1988 performance, it was the performance he put on during Moonwalker, of "Come together" and the reason why I loved that performance so much was the lack of choregraphy he basically just dancing, rather than doing lots of fancy foot work. I just posted you a video of Michael Jakson grooving on Another Part of me in 1988. There's no choreography there. So what you said is plain wrong.
And concerning choreography, you must be ignorant because he has always done choreography since the beginning with his brothers. I Want you back was choreographed. [Edited 7/28/07 11:43am]  I just hated it when it got too polished but I loved the choreography from 1969-87. | |
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Timmy84 said: krayzie said: I just posted you a video of Michael Jakson grooving on Another Part of me in 1988. There's no choreography there. So what you said is plain wrong.
And concerning choreography, you must be ignorant because he has always done choreography since the beginning with his brothers. I Want you back was choreographed. [Edited 7/28/07 11:43am] I just hated it when it got too polished but I loved the choreography from 1969-87.I don't think the problem was it got too polished. I think the problem was it got too repetitive. Michael should have brought people in to give him diffrent tricks, but I hate to say it, there came a time when he got very lazy and stuck in his ways. I don't mean "don't wanna work" lazy. I mean "don't wanna break out of the comfort zone" lazy. He's still in that place now, and I think it's a symptom of far broader issues. He kept a distance from his musicians. He never spoke to his dancers. He avoided dealing with people unless he had to. I think that's a big part of why his show never changed cos changing would mean actually seriously working intimately with his musicians and dancers, trying things out etc. and as time went on I think he just didn't want to go through that. What the psychological reasons are for that, who knows. [Edited 7/28/07 12:25pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: Timmy84 said: I just hated it when it got too polished but I loved the choreography from 1969-87.I don't think the problem was it got too polished. I think the problem was it got too repetitive. Michael should have brought people in to give him diffrent tricks, but I hate to say it, there came a time when he got very lazy and stuck in his ways. I don't mean "don't wanna work" lazy. I mean "don't wanna break out of the comfort zone" lazy. He's still in that place now, and I think it's a symptom of far broader issues. He kept a distance from his musicians. He never spoke to his dancers. He avoided dealing with people unless he had to. I think that's a big part of why his show never changed cos changing would mean actually seriously working intimately with his musicians and dancers, trying things out etc. and as time went on I think he just didn't want to go through that. What the psychological reasons are for that, who knows. [Edited 7/28/07 12:25pm] You know what? I never thought about that but you're absolutely right. He didn't seem all that open with members of his band and his "dancers". He did truly to be stuck in a time frame (as does certain elements of Janet's shows). Both Jacksons are stuck in whatever year they're in as far as shows go. For Mike since "Victory" it had been the same type of show: start off with a big explosion, stand around for a few minutes like a statue, then cut to a song, get into the same routine in older songs, do a medley, etc., etc., etc. It's fine when it's done once or twice but when you do it a third time it gets boring. We truly don't know Mike's state of mind during those tours. | |
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Timmy84 said: midnightmover said: I don't think the problem was it got too polished. I think the problem was it got too repetitive. Michael should have brought people in to give him diffrent tricks, but I hate to say it, there came a time when he got very lazy and stuck in his ways. I don't mean "don't wanna work" lazy. I mean "don't wanna break out of the comfort zone" lazy. He's still in that place now, and I think it's a symptom of far broader issues. He kept a distance from his musicians. He never spoke to his dancers. He avoided dealing with people unless he had to. I think that's a big part of why his show never changed cos changing would mean actually seriously working intimately with his musicians and dancers, trying things out etc. and as time went on I think he just didn't want to go through that. What the psychological reasons are for that, who knows. [Edited 7/28/07 12:25pm] You know what? I never thought about that but you're absolutely right. He didn't seem all that open with members of his band and his "dancers". He did truly to be stuck in a time frame (as does certain elements of Janet's shows). Both Jacksons are stuck in whatever year they're in as far as shows go. For Mike since "Victory" it had been the same type of show: start off with a big explosion, stand around for a few minutes like a statue, then cut to a song, get into the same routine in older songs, do a medley, etc., etc., etc. It's fine when it's done once or twice but when you do it a third time it gets boring. We truly don't know Mike's state of mind during those tours. There was a thread here a while ago about some phone conversations Michael had in 1992 with some German lady. They got leaked. In them he spoke specifically about this issue. He said he doesn't ever talk to his musicians or dancers because "I don't want them to see my soul". Make no mistake about it, that's a revealing comment right there, and I think it's fundamental to understanding why his act became so static. You need to work seriously with other people in order to keep anything fresh. Sheryl Crow spoke about how on the Bad Tour, he'd be rubbing her thigh every night on stage, and yet he didn't even know her name, nor any of the other band members except Greg Philinganes. As for Janet ,well that's a different subject. The plain truth is she's always followed in big brother's footsteps. I'm sure the main reason she hasn't moved on is because Michael hasn't. He was always the model she was following. She never had her own identity, but she fell in with people like Jam & Lewis and Rene Elizondo who gave her one. That's all that separates her from Rebbie. Rebbie had a better voice and still looked pretty good well into the 90s. [Edited 7/28/07 14:58pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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whatsgoingon said: krayzie said: Oh really ? http://www.youtube.com/wa...knzQjOen2M Michael Jackson was at his top in 1988. Period. You definitely smocking crack if you think he couldn't "groove". Well that's my opinion and I am sticking to it. From Thriller onwards alot of his stuff became highly, polish choregraphy. It's just that he did it better then anyone else. Infact my favourite performance from that whole Bad era was not the 1988 performance, it was the performance he put on during Moonwalker, of "Come together" and the reason why I loved that performance so much was the lack of choregraphy he basically just dancing, rather than doing lots of fancy foot work. I agree. I wish he would be a little more spontanious in his dancing. He has said numerous times that he doesn't use choregraphy and just lets the music move him, but wanna be startin something is mostly the same from the bad tour all the way to HIStory. But maybe he was just underreheaarsed in 2001 because the dancing was still good on the HIStory tour, and there were even times that I was surprised by something new. Too bad his voice sounded so bad. Stranger in Moscow live could have been something amazing. | |
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Timmy84 said: krayzie said: I just posted you a video of Michael Jakson grooving on Another Part of me in 1988. There's no choreography there. So what you said is plain wrong.
And concerning choreography, you must be ignorant because he has always done choreography since the beginning with his brothers. I Want you back was choreographed. [Edited 7/28/07 11:43am] I just hated it when it got too polished but I loved the choreography from 1969-87.You understand where I am coming from. We all know from the Motown days there was choregraphy, but from the Bad era it started to become too polish, as well as repetitive. And Krayzie stop being so obnoxious just because people don't see things the way you do. | |
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dag said: dag said: That´s gonna be fun.EmbattledWarrior, plz post some MJ stories if your dad told you some. And couldn´t you arrange meeting with Mike through your dad somehow? Stories? lol c'mon now i aint down like that He was just the sound engineer, And he reassured me that the finale was the only song used with a backtape recorder. I can tell ya stories about Beyonce, or Usher, But MJ, i aint got none sorry. I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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krayzie said: ProgRocker said: So what?
That's a 13/14 year difference. Michael was in his prime (physically wise) back then. He's now pushing 50...surely you can't think that he'll still have the same voice he had when he was 27. People's voices change when they get older, including celebrities. And I actually love his singing in this version. It's lower, but it's not bad; he still has a very strong voice. [Edited 7/27/07 20:17pm] Oh really ? People voices change now ? So tell me why Prince doesn't sing his old songs MUCH lower and deeper like that ???? Michael's voice has DRASTICALLY CHANGED. It's WAY lower. Completely different. And you can't hear at the end how he can't even hit the highest notes. Terrible. The 2001's performance is partly mimmed. It's obvious. Terrible. It sounds forced. He can't sing anymore. And if you want I can bring you all the history performances and Dangerous performances just to see how his voice turned bad. I brought the thruth. Your Michael Jackson CAN'T SING ANYMORE. Period. Does Peter Gabriel sound exactly the same as he did when he was with Genesis? His voice is drastically lower now - it's matured and gone deeper. The same thing rings true with Michael Jackson. Just because someone has a lower voice than they used to doesn't make it bad, including MJ. [Edited 7/28/07 14:05pm] "Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart." - Khalil Gibran | |
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I got more bullshit crushing to do here. Check it out. Michael lost many things over the years, but one thing he never lost was his spontaneity as a dancer. If you've seen more than one concert of his from each tour you'll know that every single performance is different. The structure of the show was always the same with many choreographed sections, but within that structure he was always cutting loose and improvising. Point blank, he has never done an identical performance of any of his songs. Even the most elaborately choreographed one, Dangerous, still leaves him space to cut loose. Someone mentioned Wanna Be Starting Something. That song has always had the same basic choreography, but on the verses and choruses he is always improvising. He just has to make sure to get back in time to do the choreographed bits (and I've actually seen some peformances where he was in no hurry to do even that).
I think what you guys are really bemoaning is how many times he repeats the same moves, which is a problem, but I got news for you. He had that same problem in the mid 70s. He's always had a catalogue of moves and gestures that he repeats. In the mid 70s that catalogue was actually much smaller than it was 10 years later. The only reason it was a problem later on was because he just did too damn much dancing. Of course if you're dancing all the time, then your repetitions are going to be more noticable, which brings me back to my earlier point about how he should have varied his shows more like Prince did. Not only would it have made his shows better, but it would have made it easier for him physically. The only place Michael showed any variety dance wise in the mid 70s was in a few sketches on their TV show. In regular performances he was always repeating the same moves. Always. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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ProgRocker said: krayzie said: Oh really ? People voices change now ? So tell me why Prince doesn't sing his old songs MUCH lower and deeper like that ???? Michael's voice has DRASTICALLY CHANGED. It's WAY lower. Completely different. And you can't hear at the end how he can't even hit the highest notes. Terrible. The 2001's performance is partly mimmed. It's obvious. Terrible. It sounds forced. He can't sing anymore. And if you want I can bring you all the history performances and Dangerous performances just to see how his voice turned bad. I brought the thruth. Your Michael Jackson CAN'T SING ANYMORE. Period. Does Peter Gabriel sound exactly the same as he did when he was with Genesis? His voice is drastically lower now - it's matured and gone deeper. The same thing rings true with Michael Jackson. Just because someone has a lower voice than they used to doesn't make it bad, including MJ. [Edited 7/28/07 14:05pm] I don't think people expect MJ voice to remain the same through out the years. But the problem is Michael doesn't sing live much. Half of his Dangerous shows were mimed. Alot of his History tour was mimed. He even mimed ballads, so that in itself proves that something is amiss with his voice. I can't imagine the 22 year old Michael miming continuously to all his song during his own concerts. So you have to come to the conclusion that he has a problem with his voice, live. Or he can't be bother to sing, because he is too busy putting all his energy into dancing. | |
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whatsgoingon said: ProgRocker said: Does Peter Gabriel sound exactly the same as he did when he was with Genesis? His voice is drastically lower now - it's matured and gone deeper. The same thing rings true with Michael Jackson. Just because someone has a lower voice than they used to doesn't make it bad, including MJ. [Edited 7/28/07 14:05pm] I don't think people expect MJ voice to remain the same through out the years. But the problem is Michael doesn't sing live much. Half of his Dangerous shows were mimed. Alot of his History tour was mimed. He even mimed ballads, so that in itself proves that something is amiss with his voice. I can't imagine the 22 year old Michael miming continuously to all his song during his own concerts. So you have to come to the conclusion that he has a problem with his voice, live. Or he can't be bother to sing, because he is too busy putting all his energy into dancing. Nothing was a amiss with his voice, singing just didn't become # 1 on the list of priorities... He decided to be some type of showman... I don't agree with it... but thats all it was... Its also leads to the fact that, He doesn't like touring... He became sometype of monkey, dancing for dollars... Which is why we have been saying he should do an unpluged album. We all want MJ to be like Prince, to be able to go to a club and just throw down in an intimate setting... Problem is... he can't do that cause his fans are fucking nuts... Michael Was the jet setter for musical artist who employ theatrics to their act... Its gotten old now, i think unplugged is the way to go Cause the world is going retro anyway I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: whatsgoingon said: I don't think people expect MJ voice to remain the same through out the years. But the problem is Michael doesn't sing live much. Half of his Dangerous shows were mimed. Alot of his History tour was mimed. He even mimed ballads, so that in itself proves that something is amiss with his voice. I can't imagine the 22 year old Michael miming continuously to all his song during his own concerts. So you have to come to the conclusion that he has a problem with his voice, live. Or he can't be bother to sing, because he is too busy putting all his energy into dancing. Nothing was a amiss with his voice, singing just didn't become # 1 on the list of priorities... He decided to be some type of showman... I don't agree with it... but thats all it was... Its also leads to the fact that, He doesn't like touring... He became sometype of monkey, dancing for dollars... Which is why we have been saying he should do an unpluged album. We all want MJ to be like Prince, to be able to go to a club and just throw down in an intimate setting... Problem is... he can't do that cause his fans are fucking nuts... Michael Was the jet setter for musical artist who employ theatrics to their act... Its gotten old now, i think unplugged is the way to go Cause the world is going retro anyway I agree with it all except the "fan" comment, I'm a fan but I'm sane (in many ways). But yeah there ARE some weirdos in his fan club as there are in any artist's fan club, lol.[Edited 7/28/07 15:57pm] | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: whatsgoingon said: I don't think people expect MJ voice to remain the same through out the years. But the problem is Michael doesn't sing live much. Half of his Dangerous shows were mimed. Alot of his History tour was mimed. He even mimed ballads, so that in itself proves that something is amiss with his voice. I can't imagine the 22 year old Michael miming continuously to all his song during his own concerts. So you have to come to the conclusion that he has a problem with his voice, live. Or he can't be bother to sing, because he is too busy putting all his energy into dancing. Nothing was a amiss with his voice, singing just didn't become # 1 on the list of priorities... He decided to be some type of showman... I don't agree with it... but thats all it was... Its also leads to the fact that, He doesn't like touring... He became sometype of monkey, dancing for dollars... Which is why we have been saying he should do an unpluged album. We all want MJ to be like Prince, to be able to go to a club and just throw down in an intimate setting... Problem is... he can't do that cause his fans are fucking nuts... Michael Was the jet setter for musical artist who employ theatrics to their act... Its gotten old now, i think unplugged is the way to go Cause the world is going retro anyway Yeah but he did sing live on a few songs and he did not sing well. Can you tell me that he sounded good on I'll Be There or Wanna Be Startin Something? I am a big fan of his, but I can say that I think he sounded very tired and seemed to have lost his range. | |
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ProgRocker said: krayzie said: Oh really ? People voices change now ? So tell me why Prince doesn't sing his old songs MUCH lower and deeper like that ???? Michael's voice has DRASTICALLY CHANGED. It's WAY lower. Completely different. And you can't hear at the end how he can't even hit the highest notes. Terrible. The 2001's performance is partly mimmed. It's obvious. Terrible. It sounds forced. He can't sing anymore. And if you want I can bring you all the history performances and Dangerous performances just to see how his voice turned bad. I brought the thruth. Your Michael Jackson CAN'T SING ANYMORE. Period. Does Peter Gabriel sound exactly the same as he did when he was with Genesis? His voice is drastically lower now - it's matured and gone deeper. The same thing rings true with Michael Jackson. Just because someone has a lower voice than they used to doesn't make it bad, including MJ. [Edited 7/28/07 14:05pm] HEY, PRINCE WAS BORN THE SAME YEAR AS MICHAEL JACKSON. SAME MOTHERFUCKING AGE. ASK YOURSELF WHY PRINCE CAN STILL PERFORM ALL HIS SONGS LIVE WITHOUT LOWERING OR GOING DEEPER LIKE MJ. Musicology tour was ALL live. And tell me again with a straight face that Michael Jackson's lower voice sounds better ???? He sounds LIKE SHIT. Period. He can't sing. |
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EmbattledWarrior said: dag said: EmbattledWarrior, plz post some MJ stories if your dad told you some. And couldn´t you arrange meeting with Mike through your dad somehow? Stories? lol c'mon now i aint down like that He was just the sound engineer, And he reassured me that the finale was the only song used with a backtape recorder. I can tell ya stories about Beyonce, or Usher, But MJ, i aint got none sorry. That´s a shame. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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AND LET'S NOT FORGET...
Jeffrey Daniel was also a major inspiration. http://www.youtube.com/wa...VYUAEdXzZw midnightmover said: papaaisaway said: THE FOSSE ROUTINE...
Displayed striking similarities to how MJ performed in his later years... (e.g. Dangerous) Indeed. I'm glad to have seen that as it clears up a mystery. I always wondered how Michael transformed himself from the cute but uncool performer we see in 1975 to the ice cold bad motherfucker we saw on Motown 25, Smooth Criminal, Grammys 88, etc. This helps explain it. Thank god he latched onto Bob Fosse cos if he'd stayed performing like he was in 1975, then I don't think any of us, including me, would even be talking about him now. [Edited 7/30/07 15:17pm] | |
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