Timmy84 said:

The last time I saw him do to the splits was on the Jacksons variety shows, he was doing a sketch and he did them. I love watching those shows because you truely see how diverse Michael really was as a dancer, from Jazz to tap to just getting down to the funk.
[Edited 7/26/07 13:16pm]

whatsgoingon said:

The great stuff in there was when he did the locking and robotics in I Shot The Sheriff and That's The Way I Like It. His tap routines were cool too, but he never did those moves in regular concerts or TV appearances for some reason. We saw the robotics quite a bit, but never the locking or tap. Interestingly, he kind of resurrected bits of that in the early 90s. In the Jam video he does the same locking move he'd done 16 years earlier in I Shot The Sheriff. In the late 80s he introduced a newer brand of tap into his act, more polished but not quite so free. That's what you see in the Black Or White video.

midnightmover said:

I think Michael's dancing is underrated because he was capable of doing more than the Moonwalk and the Robot as you just pointed out what he did in "Black or White". I gotta find the Jacksons routines tho.

Timmy84 said:

I love stuff like this. It's a comedy sketch from their variety show but it's Michael Jackson I love:

http://uk.youtube.com/wat...D6TaLJJmcs

You see

krayzie said:

He had his first surgery well before Thriller. The surgery should have started and stopped with Off The Wall, and at the very most should NEVER gone beyond Thriller.

As for the singing, I have no problem with him evolving, but once he evolved squarely into mainstream pop/rock/disney songs and therefore losing most of his original, organic sound it was always going to be difficult to go back to the basis, because has he evolved so did his fanbase, which are mainly made up of pop fans.

The dancing went wrong when he started to become technical and started to rely more and more on the grab-crotching/moonwalk moves. If you look back to the 70s I think Michael was so much funkier, yes, he could be very polished but that funk still flowed through his body. Today he really is just a carbon copy of Bob Fosse.
[Edited 7/26/07 5:51am]

whatsgoingon said:

Thanks for sharing that clip. This is a great example of why Bob Fosse is one of my favorite choreographers. Ever.

I have no doubts that MJ can still cut it as a vocalist. Someone earlier on this thread mentioned that studio techniques can mask shitty vocals...that's bullshit. Britney Spears can't sing & no amount of money spent in the studio can mask that fact..her voice is dubbed to hell. If you listen to the better songs on INVINCIBLE (Break of dawn, Whatever Happens) you can still hear the MJ of old..It's surreal to think that the wreck of a body that we see today still contains THAT voice. Live performances on the other hand are a different matter..MJ is old & insecure..there's no way he could pull off the moves & sing at the same time...i'm going to see Prince next week & I sure as hell won't be expecting to see him gyrating on his back or pulling off the splits.
Mike was born with soul & no matter how much he try's to fuck it up it'll always be there...whether or not he allows it to surface again remains to be seen...somehow I doubt it

I have no doubts that MJ can still cut it as a vocalist. Someone earlier on this thread mentioned that studio techniques can mask shitty vocals...that's bullshit. Britney Spears can't sing & no amount of money spent in the studio can mask that fact..her voice is dubbed to hell. If you listen to the better songs on INVINCIBLE (Break of dawn, Whatever Happens) you can still hear the MJ of old..It's surreal to think that the wreck of a body that we see today still contains THAT voice. Live performances on the other hand are a different matter..MJ is old & insecure..there's no way he could pull off the moves & sing at the same time...i'm going to see Prince next week & I sure as hell won't be expecting to see him gyrating on his back or pulling off the splits.
Mike was born with soul & no matter how much he try's to fuck it up it'll always be there...whether or not he allows it to surface again remains to be seen...somehow I doubt it

SoulAlive said:

at both posts. He may sell more than Prince or Madonna but at least they put out regular material and perform live shows. I don't care about that whole quality versus quantity defense either because the quality ain't always so great. It's a matter of opinion. I love the variety of Prince's discography. I’m glad that Madonna is still making albums and touring. If I don’t like this album, maybe I’ll like the next one. At least I know there’ll be a next one and it won’t take 8 years to drop.

I feel like P and Madge are still doing the damned thing and they haven’t let personal or professional challenges, sales or even fans stop them from creating and performing and at the end of the day that’s all I really want from the artists I love.

In this sketch he actually does the splits, he is about 19 here.
http://uk.youtube.com/wat...6kF0xMcrFc

JackieBlue said:

Agreed.Prince and Madonna are still inspired by music.It's their life,it's what they do.Once you lose the desire to make music and tour on a regular basis,it's time to call it a day.

SoulAlive said:

Michael is a virgo...
he is a perfectionist, IE he doesn't know his damnself whats good or not...
I think the desire is there...
He just doesn't kno what to do, to try and sell, or follow artistic expression
In the 90's Michael was very artistic...
Something happened during and after Invincible...
His relationship with sony Soured, The Molestation case came and was a blessing in duisguise because he slowly found out that his whole organization was rotted to the core with backstabbers. Everyone is sueing him left and right...

but like i said it would be a perfect time, to just press Reset on his life
and do over...
thats why i don't think its wise to have producers even touching his material
I think he should be locked away, in some recording studio in the south of france.
Undisturbed
Box full of Twinkies and KFC
And just pour hhimself into his music...
but, that aint gonna happen
but its what should happen...

As a musician myself, i will tell ya that making music a therapeutic experience,
It can cleanse you. But working wiith colloborators is something else...
you tend not t o give too much of yourself
Thats why its best, if you can, to do it alone...

EmbattledWarrior said:

I think he began to lose his artistic edge somewhere between Thriller and Bad. I don't care what anyone says if you look at most artists including Prince and Stevie Wonder, they tend to do their best work in cluster, not every 5 years which started to be the case with MJ after Thriller. Stevie Wonder did his best work; Talking Book, Innerversions and Songs in the Key of Life within a space of 4 years. With Michael in my opinion his most creative and prolific phrase was between 78 and 82, when he was relasing solo albums and albums with his brother year after year. After Thriller he was the "King of POp" so alot of his material was compromise and a mish mash of stuff. You get an almost 100% pop album with Bad. Dangerous would have been 10 times better if he wasn'trying to be all things to all people. Unlike MJ fans I find Dangerous incredibly messy and all over the place. And with History, well he wasn't even singing on the album most of the time, he was either shouting or growling!!

And I am one of the people who believe Michael at this stage in his life can NOT produce an album on his own, because it would probably be all about "Lost children" or the tabloids. He needs one good producer, some self penned songs of his own and another song writer in the style of Rod Temperton who understands his style to provide him a few more good songs to give the overall album balance and flow, things since he has departed from Q that have been lacking in his albums. Michael doing everything himself will be as messy, as all these people his "Colloborating" with.
[Edited 7/27/07 2:53am]

No,he doesn't need to make a "new" album.Michael has lost the ability to make good "new" music.He's become artistically lazy and complacent.His strategy for making new music is simple.....pick up an issue of Billboard,see who's doing well on the charts and then call up the hottest R&B/hip-hop producers to help him out This strategy is played out! To be honest,I don't even wanna hear this new CD he's working on.Songs written by Akon and will.i.am? No thank you!

At this point,an unplugged album is the only way to go.

It has nothing to do with pop/rock/disney songs.
It has to do with his voice.
Michael Jackson can't sing no more. Period.
He just lost his voice. He was an amazing singer in the 80's. And could kill it on stage. Since then everything went worse and worse.

It has nothing to do with Bob Fosse or Being more technical, Jackson get older, slower. Too robotic. He definitely lost it.

During the Bad era he was at his best. He was very smooth and fluid. He could do everything he wants. Just amazing. After that everything went wrong.

krayzie said:

krayzie, keep the common sense coming, brother. I forgive you for that nipplegate thing. These MJ threads are like strange parallel universes sometimes where reality just will not be allowed in. If you can sing live, you do it. Point blank. Can it be coincidence that the decline in his vocal sound coincided with the increase in his miming? Of course not. People say he mimes cos he's dancing. Total bullshit. He mimes ballads too. You Are Not Alone, Heal The World. He doesn't dance at all in those songs and he's stil miming.

These people have obviously never heard the German History concerts from 1997. Michael's singing wasn't just bad, it was UNLISTENABLE! The interesting thing is that none of that stuff is on Youtube. MJ fans must be deliberately trying to keep it hidden. His vocal on I'll Be There was atrocious. Anyone who heard it would understand full well why he doesn't sing live.

And for the naive fools who don't realise the difference between studio recording and live singing; contrast MJ's singing on the studio version of You Rock My World with the atrocious live version on MSG. He mimes the first half then starts singing live at the end, and it sounds awful. Anyone who can't hear the huge gulf between that and the studio recording is clinically deaf, or worse still, Lying. To. Themselves.
[Edited 7/27/07 3:29am]

midnightmover said:

I was at the the MSG concert, and my dad was one of the sound engineers. You Rock my World was the only song he lip synced cause he didn't know the words lol
the first concert was excellent and his voice was top notch... the other two nights (which was mostly aired on T.V.) were lacking in vocals, but looked good...
By the end of the third night he lost his voice, cause he was pushing.
But his Voice is fine, I Know Engineers at the hit factory that have said that he is one of the only artist who doesn't Autotune his voice, so thats really him singingon invincible.
Invincible was shit...
but his vocals were top notch
so ...
You're wrong

EmbattledWarrior said:

You're in serious denial. Go back and watch the tape. We've all got it on video. Are you seriously telling me that you can't hear the difference between his vocal there and on the record. Come on ,dog. Be honest.

As clear cut a case of denial as this is, you've raised another important issue which you've glossed over. Michael ain't got no vocal stamina no more. You admit he lost his voice by the 3rd night. Dude, there are singers who perform 300 nights a year. Prince probably does a hundred gigs a year, yet Michael can't even handle three nights. Are you seiously telling me that doesn't indicate he's got vocal problems? To quote the midnightmover of 1993, "NIGGER PLEASE!!"

it's official: Michael Jackson is the most popular topic in this forum.This thread has been alive for several days,and it has almost 4000 views

the Madonna and Janet threads don't even come close,lol

SoulAlive said:

c'mon now That aint nothing new...
Michael is more talked about around here than Prince sometimes...

midnightmover said:

It had been a few years since his last performance get over it Already,
and me in denial lol
i'm probably the most realistic you're gonna find in these parts...
Cause I HATE his current music...
But i do know what i know, because of my recording background.
And MJ can Sing
His Stamina is a different story...
Because of his long sabbatical from music, stamina goes away...
And if you know anything about vocals... If you don't practice or sing for a long period of time, like a muscle it withers away...
But as i said it could be built up back to speed.
You never forget how to sing...
If MJ wants he could build it up, but the mans approaching 50 he can do what he damn well pleases...
but saying the man can't sing is ludicrous lol
and just shows you're ignorance on singing...

lol Sneddon put a Hoodoo curse on michael, so he forgot how to sing lol
Get real...
Spelling Edit
[Edited 7/27/07 3:56am]

THE FOSSE ROUTINE...

Displayed striking similarities to how MJ performed in his later years... (e.g. Dangerous)

EmbattledWarrior said:

You're in serious denial. Go back and watch the tape. We've all got it on video. Are you seriously telling me that you can't hear the difference between his vocal there and on the record. Come on ,dog. Be honest.

As clear cut a case of denial as this is, you've raised another important issue which you've glossed over. Michael ain't got no vocal stamina no more. You admit he lost his voice by the 3rd night. Dude, there are singers who perform 300 nights a year. Prince probably does a hundred gigs a year, yet Michael can't even handle three nights. Are you seiously telling me that doesn't indicate he's got vocal problems? To quote the midnightmover of 1993, "NIGGER PLEASE!!"