New topic
Printableellie I'm not sure if you're familiar with timbaland's work in the 90's and early 00's, but he's a very flexible producer overall though he appears to be sticking with a particular sound right now. Same with the neptunes, they produced some songs in the 90's that I never would have known were by them until reading the credits | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
alphastreet said: ellie I'm not sure if you're familiar with timbaland's work in the 90's and early 00's, but he's a very flexible producer overall though he appears to be sticking with a particular sound right now. Same with the neptunes, they produced some songs in the 90's that I never would have known were by them until reading the credits
He WAS a flexible producer nowadays everything he produces blows to me. Pharrell better get right with the new album or else we might as well protest that Janet just work with Jam & Lewis since other producers have failed to give her anything worthwhile. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Timmy84 said: alphastreet said: ellie I'm not sure if you're familiar with timbaland's work in the 90's and early 00's, but he's a very flexible producer overall though he appears to be sticking with a particular sound right now. Same with the neptunes, they produced some songs in the 90's that I never would have known were by them until reading the credits
He WAS a flexible producer nowadays everything he produces blows to me. Pharrell better get right with the new album or else we might as well protest that Janet just work with Jam & Lewis since other producers have failed to give her anything worthwhile. She'd been working with them for years and folks had a problem with it. Now, that she may be changing up, folks have a problem with that too. Then, she starts to work with them all over again, and folk will, of course have a problem with it. I think, she should keep who she's working with under lock and key and a secret like she did her previous marriage, that way none would be the wiser and will be utterly surprised once the secret's out. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DawnD said: Timmy84 said: He WAS a flexible producer nowadays everything he produces blows to me. Pharrell better get right with the new album or else we might as well protest that Janet just work with Jam & Lewis since other producers have failed to give her anything worthwhile. She'd been working with them for years and folks had a problem with it. Now, that she may be changing up, folks have a problem with that too. Then, she starts to work with them all over again, and folk will, of course have a problem with it. I think, she should keep who she's working with under lock and key and a secret like she did her previous marriage, that way none would be the wiser and will be utterly surprised once the secret's out. I don't mind that she's working with others but to me it seems like the guys appointed to work on the album seem only hell-bent to go on radio and say "Oh I worked with the legendary Janet Jackson and it's banging!" It was like the guys just suddenly think they have a hit on their hands, then when radio doesn't support it, they suddenly shut up.  Like Kanye for instance, if "I Want You" had charted higher on the pop charts, he'd be like "oh we working again" but he isn't appointed to work on her album since "Damita Jo". Didn't hurt that "My Baby" on "Damita Jo" is one of my absolute worst Janet joints just because of his "Louis Vuitton Don" rap. He's cool but doggone, he killed the vibe of that song. You compare it to what Jimmy & Terry did back in the day and you realize what they had/have is magical. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
i want u and strawberry bounce were awesome, though they didn't compare to his other work for himself and other artists. I thought john legend's number one and brandy's talk about our love had that jackson sound to it, it came more naturally than on janet's work | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
alphastreet said: i want u and strawberry bounce were awesome, though they didn't compare to his other work for himself and other artists. I thought john legend's number one and brandy's talk about our love had that jackson sound to it, it came more naturally than on janet's work
And that's the oddest thing about all of this, on other recordings, we all say "oh it would've been nice if they did that with Janet", then when they do, it's like "what's wrong?" You know? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Timmy84 said: alphastreet said: i want u and strawberry bounce were awesome, though they didn't compare to his other work for himself and other artists. I thought john legend's number one and brandy's talk about our love had that jackson sound to it, it came more naturally than on janet's work
And that's the oddest thing about all of this, on other recordings, we all say "oh it would've been nice if they did that with Janet", then when they do, it's like "what's wrong?" You know? what I think it is is that when they work with other artist, they give their all and try to aim for the excellence the jacksons mastered that once they're recruited by them for a project, they feel like they've made it, overworked themselves and get lazy by the time they work with michael or janet. The jacksons obviously get these guys because they want to sound like them, but these producers get lazy because they think the jacksons do it all on their own(and they have though they have to realize a point to why they were hired) and both end up doing half assed productions, sometimes hits other times misses. Sometimes I think the songs they write for other artists while being influenced by them sound so much better than their current material, and that's sad to admit cause I never in a million years thought I would. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Kanye's songs with Janet, bar My Baby are some of the best things he's ever done. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ellie said: Kanye's songs with Janet, bar My Baby are some of the best things he's ever done.
 "I Want You" was awesome. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ellie said: Kanye's songs with Janet, bar My Baby are some of the best things he's ever done.
Yeah the other songs were nice (especially "I Want You") but "My Baby" was UGH! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TotalAlisa said: phunkdaddy said: I am a janet fan. The truth is like some people said she isn't that cute
20 something year old anymore. The show your breast antics and oversexing it up on the record just isn't working anymore. She did good with it on velvet rope and all for you. She should have stopped there although i did like the damita jo album. 20 Y.O was just not a good album. A lot of the material sounds like stuff mariah carey turned down from her mimi album. I remember someone stating how mariah carey made her comeback by starting small after the glitter disaster. She did a simple but good album called charmbracelet with no fanfare, and did small intimate tours to show her fans she could still bring it before she made her big splash again with mimi. I think janet could take a cue from mariah and quit worrying about sales and working with who is supposedly the hottest producer in the game. No producers know her the way jam and lewis does. Go back to the basics janet. you can NOT say what worked for Mariah will work for Janet... you also have to realize Mariah is working with Benny Medina... He made Jlo a mega superstar.... Mariah's album was all Promotion/PR and hype... it had like three or four decent songs... and yes if you keep listening to any album over and over again you will grow to like most of the songs... IF janet had the same Great PR team as mariah.. maybe she would have done better... When you have someone who is a great manager like Benny Media... who wouldn't go far with their career... just look what happened to Jlo after he left her... her popularity went down hill and NO janet's album sounded NOTHING like mariah's... I think mariah had two major hit songs on her album.. which pulled it to the top... but the average songs on her album I would give them a 4-6 rating.... with the exception of WBT and Don't forget about us (these two songs sound identical. because don't forget about us was a slower version of We belong together) janet had a consistent album i would rate her songs from 7-9... but she did NOT have a mega hit on her album to carry it through like mariah did.... and mariah's WBT was number 1 for like 14 weeks... Janet is a completely different artist... and the same thing WILL NOT WORK FOR HER.. so don't even compare her to MARIAH OR MADONNA... Janet just needs new management... someone who will guide her career better... Whoa be easy. You taking this janet thing far too serious. For the record, i never compared janet to madonna because i don't even care for madonna. I never did. I was not comparing janet to mariah. I just stated that janet needs to quit trying to be trendy and just go back to the basics. And it is your opinion to think that janet's 20 y.o was better than mariah's mimi. If we took a poll of those two albums on this forum, i would bet my paycheck mimi would win hands down. If janet's album was that good,trust me virgin would have put out another album with extra songs on it to boost sales. As far as your comment about people just liking what's hot on the charts, that could not be further from the truth because the majority of people on the forum have a diverse taste in music. I am first and foremost an old school funk fan. 80% of my music collection has nothing to do with what's current on the charts. I actually like tamia and deborah cox better than i do janet or mariah so let's not make the debate more serious than it has to be. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but let's just keep it simple and have a little fun with it.  Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'd like to hear something like GOT TIL' IT'S GONE, MY NEED, ANYTHING, ROLL WITCHU, ONE MORE CHANCE, COME BACK TO ME, THAT'S THE WAY LOVE GOES, AGAIN, TAKE CARE, ENJOY, ISLAND LIFE, SPENDING TIME WITH YOU, LIKE YOU DON'T LOVE ME, 70S LOVE GROOVE, ON AND ON, DON'T STAND ANOTHER CHANCE, SAY YOU DO, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY, CONTROL, FUNNY HOW TIME FLIES..., LONELY, I GET LONELY, ALRIGHT, and last but not least LOVE WILL NEVER DO (WITHOUT YOU) on her new cd. Oh, and COULD THIS BE LOVE.  That would be some awesome shit to me! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Cinnie said: Ellie said: Kanye's songs with Janet, bar My Baby are some of the best things he's ever done.
"I Want You" was awesome.I love it too, the melody is great | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DawnD said: Ifsixwuz9 said: Janet can tour and make records but, she and her most avid fans need to come to grips with the fact that age does make a difference. She just turned 41 and she needs to act like it and not 21. That doesn't mean she can't be sexy but the bottom line is that there are a lot of 20-somethings with record deals and such now that have taken her place. Personally I think she should try to get into acting more ... but that's just me. Age is indeed a factor! None of the greats from the 80s are getting the airplay that they use to. But, some of the men can act half their age such as Mick Jagger and don't get ANY grief for it, nor is it talked about. It's different for female artists. So, the twenty something female artists have taken Janet's place. Does that mean they've taken Madonna's place too. Maybe not, huh? It's only Janet. Her place, and her place alone has been taken due to her lack of ability to re-invent herself like Madonna, grasp hold to the youth, manage her weight. Make a hit everytime she makes an album. Never fails, eventhough she's human. And, unlike allot of male artists' act her age. How dare Tina Turner wear mini-shirts when she was in her forties and fifties. Women should simply not fail and act their age unlike men, no matter what! Good luck Janet. When it comes to you allot of individuals who DO pay you any attention at all will definitely be hard to please, eventhough you are human and is subject to fail at some things every now and then. Artist do fail once in awhile, but Janet isn't allowed to. Okay, then.... Not sure where your rant in response to my post was going but, when I say Janet needs to act her age I mean she needs to stop getting naked on damn near every single cover photo she takes and things of that nature. And if the photographer asks to you to show more skin than is necessary doesn't mean you have to do it. She is a superstar and can call the shots on how her image should be put out in the public. Like I said she can be sexy at 41 ... nothing wrong with that. But but be classy about it. Don't act as if you are one step away from appearing on Hustler magazine. Tina Tuner was and is still sexy but you didn't and don't see her naked or half naked in damn near every picture she takes. Tina does not and did not come off as extremely immature in interviews. Janet still does this at times. And even Madonna dialed her shit down. She did it while recycling stuff that had already been done to death but whatever. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
phunkdaddy said: I am a janet fan. The truth is like some people said she isn't that cute
20 something year old anymore. The show your breast antics and oversexing it up on the record just isn't working anymore. She did good with it on velvet rope and all for you. She should have stopped there although i did like the damita jo album. 20 Y.O was just not a good album. A lot of the material sounds like stuff mariah carey turned down from her mimi album. I remember someone stating how mariah carey made her comeback by starting small after the glitter disaster. She did a simple but good album called charmbracelet with no fanfare, and did small intimate tours to show her fans she could still bring it before she made her big splash again with mimi. I think janet could take a cue from mariah and quit worrying about sales and working with who is supposedly the hottest producer in the game. No producers know her the way jam and lewis does. Go back to the basics janet. Exactly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
count me in as Number 1.
Can't stand the woman.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janet is ova. Music.............is the THANG! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
6sixx6 said: Janet is ova.
She sure is. Ova the bad stuff. Now on to the new and improved. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ifsixwuz9 said: DawnD said: Age is indeed a factor! None of the greats from the 80s are getting the airplay that they use to. But, some of the men can act half their age such as Mick Jagger and don't get ANY grief for it, nor is it talked about. It's different for female artists. So, the twenty something female artists have taken Janet's place. Does that mean they've taken Madonna's place too. Maybe not, huh? It's only Janet. Her place, and her place alone has been taken due to her lack of ability to re-invent herself like Madonna, grasp hold to the youth, manage her weight. Make a hit everytime she makes an album. Never fails, eventhough she's human. And, unlike allot of male artists' act her age. How dare Tina Turner wear mini-shirts when she was in her forties and fifties. Women should simply not fail and act their age unlike men, no matter what! Good luck Janet. When it comes to you allot of individuals who DO pay you any attention at all will definitely be hard to please, eventhough you are human and is subject to fail at some things every now and then. Artist do fail once in awhile, but Janet isn't allowed to. Okay, then.... Not sure where your rant in response to my post was going but, when I say Janet needs to act her age I mean she needs to stop getting naked on damn near every single cover photo she takes and things of that nature. And if the photographer asks to you to show more skin than is necessary doesn't mean you have to do it. She is a superstar and can call the shots on how her image should be put out in the public. Like I said she can be sexy at 41 ... nothing wrong with that. But but be classy about it. Don't act as if you are one step away from appearing on Hustler magazine. Tina Tuner was and is still sexy but you didn't and don't see her naked or half naked in damn near every picture she takes. Tina does not and did not come off as extremely immature in interviews. Janet still does this at times. And even Madonna dialed her shit down. She did it while recycling stuff that had already been done to death but whatever.  UNDERSTOOD. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
phunkdaddy said: TotalAlisa said: you can NOT say what worked for Mariah will work for Janet... you also have to realize Mariah is working with Benny Medina... He made Jlo a mega superstar.... Mariah's album was all Promotion/PR and hype... it had like three or four decent songs... and yes if you keep listening to any album over and over again you will grow to like most of the songs... IF janet had the same Great PR team as mariah.. maybe she would have done better... When you have someone who is a great manager like Benny Media... who wouldn't go far with their career... just look what happened to Jlo after he left her... her popularity went down hill and NO janet's album sounded NOTHING like mariah's... I think mariah had two major hit songs on her album.. which pulled it to the top... but the average songs on her album I would give them a 4-6 rating.... with the exception of WBT and Don't forget about us (these two songs sound identical. because don't forget about us was a slower version of We belong together) janet had a consistent album i would rate her songs from 7-9... but she did NOT have a mega hit on her album to carry it through like mariah did.... and mariah's WBT was number 1 for like 14 weeks... Janet is a completely different artist... and the same thing WILL NOT WORK FOR HER.. so don't even compare her to MARIAH OR MADONNA... Janet just needs new management... someone who will guide her career better... Whoa be easy. You taking this janet thing far too serious. For the record, i never compared janet to madonna because i don't even care for madonna. I never did. I was not comparing janet to mariah. I just stated that janet needs to quit trying to be trendy and just go back to the basics. And it is your opinion to think that janet's 20 y.o was better than mariah's mimi. If we took a poll of those two albums on this forum, i would bet my paycheck mimi would win hands down. If janet's album was that good,trust me virgin would have put out another album with extra songs on it to boost sales. As far as your comment about people just liking what's hot on the charts, that could not be further from the truth because the majority of people on the forum have a diverse taste in music. I am first and foremost an old school funk fan. 80% of my music collection has nothing to do with what's current on the charts. I actually like tamia and deborah cox better than i do janet or mariah so let's not make the debate more serious than it has to be. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but let's just keep it simple and have a little fun with it. I wasn't exactly directing this towards you only... I was saying for all the people who kept comparing her to Madonna and Mariah.. but i do know that you did not mention Madonna... what im saying is of course people would vote for mariah's album... i never said they would not... I said a lot of people are followers and if mariah album did not get all that hype and recognition... it would not have been that popular... honestly her Charmbracelet album sounded just like TIOM except for it did not have two hit songs on it.... but seriously compare the two albums.. they have that same RnB feel... the main difference between those two mariah's albums is the hype/attention TIOM got and the two hit songs... the other songs Circles was soooo boring and typical, Fly like a bird was okay after you listed to it so many times, that song she did with nelly stinks, and I can be your girl was soooo ANNOYING... that noise sounded worst then my hamsters sqeeking at the same time, then that song she did with pharrell obviously wasn't good.. it barely charted... and the song like that.. was sooo weak.... Stay the night was okay... there were other songs that were okay... but honestly she had like three or four decent songs... people would vote that album because they actually bought it.. and gave it a chance.. and listen to it many times to actually start liking the songs.... Janet's album... lets start from the beginning 1. So excited: it was Okay... kind of ghetto.. and too typical hip-hop. Rate 6 2. Show Me: fun dance song with unique sound, very catchy. Rate 8 3. Get it out of me: just a janet jam, cool janet song. Rate 7 4. Do it to me: Nice 90's RnB sound, nice groove almost remind of of Velvet rope Rate 8 5. This Body: Awesome Rock RnB song. So nice Rate 9 6. With U: Such a Nice beat makes you want to go to the beach and dance. Rate 9 7. Call on Me: its kind of weak, but cute Rate 6 8. DayBreak: so janet, nice midtempo song. Rate 7.5 9. Enjoy: RnB I know lots of fans like it but i Rate it a 6 10. Take Care: Wow another amazing Janet Slow Jam. Rate 9 11. Love to Love: its really slow, but you can grow to like it. Rate 6 12. Roll Witchu: The best song from this album. NEVER RELEASED Rate 10 Also people gave beyonce's album more of a chance then they did Janet... No one wanted to give JJ a chance... I don't care... but as a JANET fan... and knowing all her music and style... i say that she did great with this album 20 y.o... I am the biggest janet critic... please believe me... the janet fans on her forums hated me.. because i was so harsh and hard on janet.... If i can actually give this album a chance... i know its some what worth listening too.. NO matter what janet does... people like you won't ever be happy with it... even if her album was upto par with Beyonce, Ciara or Mariah... People are going to not give her a chance because media does not except her... You are only as popluar as you are accepted in the media... and she is NOT. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
" YOU CAN'T WIN, YOU CAN'T BREAK EVEN, AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF THE GAME"... michael jackson..... janet can't win, can't break even, it can't get out of the game....  |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TotalAlisa said:
" YOU CAN'T WIN, YOU CAN'T BREAK EVEN, AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF THE GAME"... michael jackson..... janet can't win, can't break even, it can't get out of the game.... I had never been critical of janet until the 20 y.o album. Most people hated the damita jo album. I loved it. I did not see that much difference between damita jo and the all for you album which was my second favorite janet album. As far as 20 y.o I actually liked the so excited cut which you rated a 6. I would give it a 8. This body is okay but the guitar riff is just not enough to make it a rock tune in the vein of trust a try or black cat. I will say daybreak was probably my favorite cut on this album despite the tired use of jermaine's run dmc sample. Janet sings the song with more passion than any other on the disc. I also like enjoy but the rest of the album was basically garbage. Call on me was just plain weak. 4 songs on the album was good but the rest of it just was not good and you are talking to someone who grew up with janet's music career when she first started. I give you props for sticking up for janet. Nothing wrong with that. I stuck by her through the super bowl fiasco and everyone dissing damita jo. Hey my younger sister didn't like damita jo but she likes 20 y.o just like you so you are not alone. I love janet but i just would like to see her go back to being janet jackson and quit trying to compete with the twenty something vixens like beyonce, shitney spears, christina, etc. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SoulAlive said: CHIC0 said: maybe change management.i don't know. so i don't think she's over, just yet. but if she follows the same script for the next couple of albums, then i think it's a safe bet to say that her superstar status and chart topping history days are over.maybe this would be a good time to just release a HITS VOL 2, add a couple extra new tracks, promote it, do a tour, and again reconnect with her audience and fan base. fuck it, at this stage, even do a reality show if you must. what've you got to lose?
.A Greatest Hits Vol.2 compilation would be a cool idea,followed by a big tour.She could remind people why they became fans in the first place.This would give a little more time to re-think her next album and where she wants to go,musically. plenty to even make it a 2cd set.
list from Wikipedia: 1993: "That's the Way Love Goes" 1993: "If" 1993: "Again" 1994: "Because of Love" 1994: "Any Time, Any Place" 1994: "Throb" (Live) 1994: "You Want This" (featuring MC Lyte) 1995: "Whoops Now" 1995: "What'll I Do" (Live) 1995: "Scream" (with Michael Jackson) 1995: "Runaway" 1996: "Twenty Foreplay" 1997: "Got 'Til It's Gone" (featuring Q-Tip and Joni Mitchell) 1997: "Together Again" 1997: "Together Again" (Deeper Remix) 1998: "I Get Lonely" 1998: "I Get Lonely" (TNT Remix featuring BLACKstreet) 1998: "Go Deep" 1998: "You" (Live) 1998: "Every Time" 1999: "Girlfriend/Boyfiend" 1999: "What's It Gonna Be?!" (Busta Rhymes featuring Janet Jackson) 2000: "Doesn't Really Matter" 2001: "All for You" 2001: "Someone to Call My Lover" 2001: "Someone to Call My Lover" (So So Def Remix featuring Jermaine Dupri) 2001: "Son of a Gun (I Betcha Think This Song Is About You)" (featuring Missy Elliott) 2001: "Son of a Gun (I Betcha Think This Song Is About You)" (P. Diddy Remix) 2002: "Feel It Boy" (Beenie Man featuring Janet Jackson) 2003: "Megamix 04" 2004: "Just a Little While" 2004: "Just a Little While" (UK Live Version) 2004: "I Want You" 2004: "R&B Junkie" (unreleased) 2004: "All Nite (Don't Stop)" 2005: "Gotta Getcha" (Jermaine Dupri) 2006: "Call on Me" (featuring Nelly) 2006: "So Excited" (featuring Khia) 2008: "TBA" (featuring Mariah Carey & Nelly) oops...janet. era now included. thanks Cinnie  [Edited 7/24/07 18:26pm] 
LOVE ♪♫♪♫ ♣¤═══¤۩۞۩ஜ۩ஜ۩۞۩¤═══¤♣ | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CHIC0 said: SoulAlive said: .A Greatest Hits Vol.2 compilation would be a cool idea,followed by a big tour.She could remind people why they became fans in the first place.This would give a little more time to re-think her next album and where she wants to go,musically. plentyto even make it a 2cd set.
list from Wikipedia: 1997: "Got 'Til It's Gone" (featuring Q-Tip and Joni Mitchell) 1997: "Together Again" 1997: "Together Again" (Deeper Remix) 1998: "I Get Lonely" 1998: "I Get Lonely" (TNT Remix featuring BLACKstreet) 1998: "Go Deep" 1998: "You" (Live) 1998: "Every Time" 1999: "Girlfriend/Boyfiend" 1999: "What's It Gonna Be?!" (Busta Rhymes featuring Janet Jackson) 2000: "Doesn't Really Matter" 2001: "All for You" 2001: "Someone to Call My Lover" 2001: "Someone to Call My Lover" (So So Def Remix featuring Jermaine Dupri) 2001: "Son of a Gun (I Betcha Think This Song Is About You)" (featuring Missy Elliott) 2001: "Son of a Gun (I Betcha Think This Song Is About You)" (P. Diddy Remix) 2002: "Feel It Boy" (Beenie Man featuring Janet Jackson) 2003: "Megamix 04" 2004: "Just a Little While" 2004: "Just a Little While" (UK Live Version) 2004: "I Want You" 2004: "R&B Junkie" (unreleased) 2004: "All Nite (Don't Stop)" 2005: "Gotta Getcha" (Jermaine Dupri) 2006: "Call on Me" (featuring Nelly) 2006: "So Excited" (featuring Khia) 2008: "TBA" (featuring Mariah Carey & Nelly) [28] And that's not even counting the janet. era stuff that was unrepresented on Design Of A Decade. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Cinnie said: And that's not even counting the janet. era stuff that was unrepresented on Design Of A Decade.
i thought i had that on there. made changes. thanks
LOVE ♪♫♪♫ ♣¤═══¤۩۞۩ஜ۩ஜ۩۞۩¤═══¤♣ | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |