Alasseon said:

she has been studying Kabballah for 10 years now. I don't think it's a fad thing.

ehuffnsd said:

Here, here!
I 2 agree with that statement.
I'm sure Madonna haters will choose to bypass this post.

Christina, a fellow Madonna sympathiser xx

Alasseon said:

Hear! Hear!

MartyMcFly said:

More Madonna haters propaganda...

Tonylover said:

Cept boy george sucks now, and has always sucked since culture club
and the only reason George Michaels can't get popular again is because he wont stray away from the nose candy and getting caught with marijuana and a cops cock in his pocket....
But in their defense Boy George and George Michaels are more of any artist than Madonna...

ehuffnsd said:

Now, wait a minute, e.

Madonna can't really play an instrument, or, play it well.

Madonna doesn't have a distinguished singing voice.

What Madonna does do is make fun records, exude charisma (or, at least, used to), and entertain as best she can. She also has tried, to her credit, to be inventive and innovative as of late. Good for her.

She's more of an entertainer than an artist. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think this has anything to do with her audience. It has to do with what she IS, and what she ISN'T.

Can't Madonna fans just be content with the fact that she's a pop culture icon? What's so bad about being a legendary entertainer?

She doesn't rate well as a serious artist. Period.

Why complain about people refusing to consider her something that she's not?

That's why I don't care whether she's "playing" the instrument or not. To paraphrase Dennis Green from last year, I knew what she was beforehand.

And, neither George Michael nor Boy George get their due respect as artists and/or singers because they disappeared from the public consciousness almost 2 decades ago. But hey, until recently, so did Prince.
[Edited 7/24/07 15:54pm]
[Edited 7/24/07 15:56pm]

namepeace said:

Atleast you seem objective.
So, thankyou.

Christina xx

EmbattledWarrior said:

Omg, stop now!! You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself. You make it so easy for people to dispute what you say. I'm sorry, but it's true.
I doubt you are this homophobic or sexist in real life, so if I was you I would refrain from posting in this thread again for safety reasons . I'm sure you're really nice and I'm even more certain you own a Madonna record
I'm sure you were Vogueing along side with her in the 90's man... hmm makes you think.

Christina xx

namepeace said:

George ODoud and George Michael do not get the respect they are due in America because they are gay. Elton John and Freddy Mercury do because they came out much later in their carears.

Tonylover said:

O you got a crush on me
Thats cool lol

But look i've been nothing but honest in this thread. I talk alot of shit, but you haven't disputed anything against wwhat i've said.
I got nothing against her, i even like a few of her songs.
But hey i also like alot of Britney Spears and Nsync songs as well.
Not because they're artist, but because they're produced very well.
and you can't shoot down what's good.
And i never said that madonnas music was not good.
I merely stated that the sole reason she is popular is because she was scandalous. She didn't plan it to be, it was just her nature.
You can name all the top ten hits and all the records she sold until you're blue in the face.

But writhing around in a bridal dress, singing like a virgin, made that womans career.
Not producing, Not writing, or singing for that matter.
But sex...

And hey you can't knock that sex sells...
She's a savvyy business woman

But she doesn't belong to that special group of people we call "artist"
least not yet.
thats it.
She's a new age debbie reynolds with a touch of Doris Day.
But she is no artist.
thats it

Tonylover said:

I know she took lessons in guitar for Ray of Light, but when has she ever been seen or credited as palying piano???? What are you basing that statement on??'

I heard she might have "played some kekyboard" on Love song, but that is a far cry from being a good piano player.

Just would like some clarification or support.

I like Madonna btw.

GaryMF said:

I went through a stage in my life when I decided to read all these Rock n' Roll books, Madonna was included in many of them. I remember them saying quite often that she was a talented piano player. She played often in the beginning of her career, during her Breakfast Club days (I think). I don't know about now, but I know when she was an up and coming artist she was more into it, I guess once she became famous she didn't feel the need to improve her skills as an instrumentalist.
Sorry, I don't have a source. I just know I have come across it on many occasions.
Christina xx

Tonylover said:

I find it hard to believe that a talented piano player, wouldn't incorporate it into her routine... If she was she would know know enough musical theory to control most of the music in her catalogue, IE produce everything...
Im sorry its a little farfetched...
I've been in the biz 4 years now, and whenever a company finds an artist that can play an instrument... They abuse it to death, its a tactic thats old as ragtime.
so i'd like to read that book...

EmbattledWarrior said:

She didn't need it, she was a sex symbol. Like you said, sex sells and she used it to her own benefit, along with other talents. She didn't need to play the piano, she was a dancer and a singer, how would you encorporate piano playing into a Madonna concert? A tad difficult for a performer of her calibre.

Christina xx

Tonylover said:

im sorry, but thers is nothing sexier than a girl playing an instrument half naked lol

Plus she didn't plan on being a sex symbol, now did she?

EmbattledWarrior said:

Neither of us know whether she did or didn't? We don't know what her intentions were.

Christina xx

Tonylover said:

I like a lot of Madonna's songs. "Lucky Star" and "Get Into The Groove" were the jams backinaday. I had a Madonna poster growing up.

I personally think that she's not as charismatic as she used to be, and she has tried too hard to remain relevant. But she's an undeniable legend, she tries to be cutting edge, and the 80's and early 90's wouldn't have been the same without her.

I can understand why her fans love her so.

namepeace said:

I totally agree with the bit in bold. No one ever says it, but these days she comes across to me as a dork. Her dancing is embarassing, her attempts at rap were truly cringe worthy, some of the jokes she told in her documentary, her lyrics (the title "Hey You" being a good example), all of it just seems dorky. Even her swearing seems kind of square to me, like she thinks it's a really shocking, cool thing to do. Maybe if you grew up 40 years ago with an old fashioned daddy it might be, but to the rest of us it's nothing.
[Edited 7/25/07 9:16am]

You act like playing guitar is hard. Anybody can learn to play a few chords. Ever heard of punk rock? hehe

Tonylover said:

Tony Ciccone forced all the kids in the family to take Piano.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Yes she did. She used to attend business meetings in 82 and 83 in tank tops chewing bubble gum and dropping popcorn in breast and picking it out to get people to pay attention to her and then she'd go in for the kill to get her way.

she was fully aware of the power of sexuality, remember her earliest mentor Christopher Flynn encourged her to explore her sexuality at an early age. She grew up in the gay culture of Detroit and moved to the village in NY so she knew the power of sex over men.

she if fully aware of her image and what it can do, better than anyone else in the industry.
[Edited 7/25/07 10:18am]

EmbattledWarrior said:

I don't know if you know this or not but every Madonna hit since 1985, that's 45 top ten hits have the same producer. Where are the other hits from Mirwais, William Orbit, Stuart Price, Shep Pettibone, Steven Bray, Andre Betts, Maruis Devais and Patrick Leonnard?

Every one she has worked with has said the same thing she is in control of the sound and knows what she wants. Just recently both Timberlake and Timbaland have said Madonna is working them to death.

You are either ignorant of Madonna's talent, sexist or homophobic or all three if you don't realize Madonna's skill as a producer and at least a lyricst.

midnightmover said:

she isn't the Madonna she was, but that happens to everyone. she though is still in a league of her own.

ehuffnsd said:

Are you saying that the same thing has happened to . . . . . . PRINCE?

namepeace said:

uh huh

ehuffnsd said:

well, hush yo mouf!!!!

Tonylover said:

I was an ORIGINAL Madonna fan..... had her first album on vinyl, listened to Holiday pre-album etc.

I used to read all about her back then too..... and NEVER came across anything saying she touched a piano.

In fact, what I remember reading is that she played DRUMS in one that 1st band (and not that well), and finagled her way into singing lead.

Also, around the same time, her boyfriend taught her "to strum a few guitar chords" so she might have strapped on a guitar at some of htose concerts as well. She clearly didn't really know how to play because around Ray of Light she made a point about taking lessons and saying she was "learning guitar". I don't play guitar so I can't comment on how well she does or does not (I play keybaords).

The only time I"ve ever heard mention of her touching a keyboard instrument was a poster on here saying sh eplayed keyboards on Love Song wtih Prince but who knows where that came from. And I woudl guess she was just playing some whole note chords on a pad sound at best (there isn't much keyboard on Love Song if memeory serves).

So, I still don't see where you get your idea that she can play piano, let alone be good at it.

And I agree, if she could, we would've seen her do it at some point by now, either onstage, in a documentary at home, in the studio etc.

Even Just Timberlake sits at a Rhodes and plays the same riff over and over on his stage show for "Seniorita".... and I doubt he can actually play a real song on the piano.

ehuffnsd said:

But Culture Club hasn't had a hit since '83 and George Michael pulled a Prince and dropped out of the music scene. Mr. O'Doud had a little problem with drugs, too, right?

I don't see how you can chalk their lack of respect to their being gay. I don't doubt that it HURTS, mind you, but their gayness is not the reason they fell off commercially. After all, everyone assumed Luther was gay (tho he never came out), and he was ALWAYS beloved and is regarded as a legend.

In any event, I respect both TREMENDOUSLY as singers, George moreso as an artist.
[Edited 7/25/07 12:05pm]
[Edited 7/25/07 12:05pm]

GaryMF said:

Well, someone above mentioned that her father Tony forced her to learn piano as a child, so maybe you could ask them.

Christina xx

Tonylover said:

First, being forced to take lessons doesnt' mean you can play.

Second, you are the one who said not only does she play, she is "pretty good".
So now you are deferring to others to back you up??? I hope you are never called as a witness in court!