Timmy84 said:

Debated by whom - MJ haters?

mrsnet said:

That's what I'm talking about. You misunderstood me. Why you wanna argue.

Timmy84 said:

Not arguing at all. I just feel the need to clarify the misconception that 'everybody hates Mike'. Michael still gets more love than any other entertainer when he shows up anywhere. I did not misunderstand you, your "People still adore the ground Liz walks on," coupled with 'people criticism of Michael' inferred, imo,that 'people' did not feel the same (adoration) for Michael.
Michael.

HERE'S A COUPLE OF ARTICLES I THOUGHT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST...

How Billie Jean changes the world
Thursday July 12, 2007
Joe Queenan
Guardian Unlimited

There are four kinds of pop stars: the ones that work hard at remaining cool and stylish and vaguely hip long after their careers have plateaued (David Bowie, James Brown, John Lennon, Cher); the ones that gracefully enter middle age and assume the role of living legend/elder statesman (Neil Young, Aretha Franklin, Bob Dylan); the ones who never understand that it is time to get off the stage (Paul McCartney, Rod Stewart); and the ones who simply lose their grip and drift off into the void (Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson). Members of the latter group often become so strange, so pathetic, so self-destructive that it is hard for people who come after them to believe that they were once colossi who ruled the world. But Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson were indeed colossi, and they did once rule the world.

For around seven years, Michael Jackson was the most luminous, powerful, influential star in the music business, and no one else was even close. During that period, before his bizarre antics and legal problems turned the public against him, Jackson enjoyed the kind of international fame experienced only by the likes of Muhammad Ali, Greta Garbo and Lord Byron. He was so famous that if you cut his fame in half he would still have been eight times as famous as the next most famous person, whoever that may have been. It may have been Tom Cruise.

All this began with the 1983 hit single Billie Jean. Though it may not sound like it today, Billie Jean is one of the most revolutionary songs in the history of popular music. This is not, however, because its lyrics tell the story of a well-meaning paranoid being stalked by a woman who claims that he has impregnated her, although that in itself was certainly an unusual theme for a pop song at the time. No, Billie Jean was groundbreaking because it introduced the idea that a single must be accompanied by a high-production video - preferably by someone who is a bit of a hoofer - thereby transforming a run-of-the-mill song release into an "event". Billie Jean transformed MTV from a mere diversion for young people into a cultural institution that society at large paid attention to. It introduced the pasty-faced number-crunchers who ran MTV to the concept that white viewers would respond enthusiastically to videos featuring a black performer, something they had not previously believed. Back in those days, a lot of people in the entertainment business were still racists. Thank goodness that's over.

Billie Jean's greatest importance is that it launched the Michael Jackson era, a period in which the entire population of the planet made a group decision to follow the career of one star and one star only. This was an era in which a fabulously gifted performer like Prince was forced into a distant second-fiddle role, because even though Prince could dance, he couldn't dance like Michael Jackson. Jackson's all-encompassing appeal was something that had never happened before in the history of pop music: Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley and the Beatles were preposterously famous in their time, but their appeal was still basically limited to white people. Michael Jackson, during his Thriller LP era, had everybody talking about him.

Cute and cuddly as front man/child for the Jackson Five, Jackson had been trying for several years to reintroduce himself to a public that was ill prepared to view him as anything other than a charming has-been. To shatter this perception, Jackson created the flashy, enigmatic, vaguely dangerous persona who appeared in Billie Jean, Beat It and Bad. At a time when most music videos were either primitive or stupid, Jackson made a video that was clever, original, visually opulent and mysterious.

This was the first time that a song had been upstaged by the performance of a song, creating a peculiar situation where no one really had any interest in hearing the song unless they could simultaneously watch the song being performed. Other bands - ZZ Top, the Police, Cyndie Lauper, the Bangles - were putting out amusing, entertaining videos at the time, but no one was watching them because of Sting's dancing. Michael Jackson's footwork was the central conversational theme of Planet Earth throughout the 1980's. Not until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989 did mankind move on to another topic.

Billie Jean, which has nothing to do with the tennis legend Billie Jean King, was recorded on a specially designed set to capture the muted sound of the snare drum that Jackson insisted upon. It was produced by the legendary Quincy Jones, who wanted Jackson to change the name of the song and also to shorten the improbably lengthy 29-second introduction, during which Jackson does not actually sing. More thought went into the production of this single than would go into the entire recording careers of Axl Rose, Coldplay, Shania Twain or Gwen Stefani. The song stayed at the top of the charts for more than two months and propelled the album Thriller to its iconic status as the biggest-selling record of all time. Because no one buys albums anymore, and because high-concept music videos are a thing of the past, and because low-key, hybrid songs like Billie Jean sound anachronistic in the coarse hip-hop era, Michael Jackson's achievements now seem as remote and inexplicable as those of the pharaohs. But, if you're in the myth-making line of trade, the pharaohs are good company to be in.

A steaming pile of ol' bool sheeit here

No doubt I love "I Can't Go For That". To say it was one of the first pop hits to feature a drum machine has got to be inaccurate.

Is John Oates a journalist now or what?

It may be inaccurate, but can anyone of y'all tell me what was one of the first pop songs to have a drum machine?

Timmy84 said:

Debated by whom - MJ haters?

Timmy84 said:

How popular does it have to be for me to prove you wrong?

"Somebody's Watching You" by Little Sister, 1971, written and produced by Sly Stone (US #32, R&B #8)

Total Bullshit.

1981's Hall & Oates song "I Can't Go for That" was the blueprint to Billie Jean. Listen to the first 25+ seconds is a direct rip off, the pacing, the bass line, the starting of the vocals come in at the exact points. Everything! MJ's is only a 1/2 second or so faster.

Prince had 2 music videos out before MJ had one video on MTV! "1999" & "Little Red Corvette".

All these "Reporters" always want to re-write history or worse never do any research.

You ppl take ElectricBlue seriously, this is his forte.

Najee said:

Actually,it was the song "Thriller" that borrows the bassline from Rick James' "Give It To Me Baby".James mentions this in the liner notes to the 'Bustin Out' 2-CD compilation.

mrsnet said:

MJ himself said to Daryl Hall that he was inspired by ICGFT when he recorded Billie jean, that doesnt change the fact that BJ is a masterpiece.

And in fact, Prince was the first black pop star to be on MTV though I don't think he was the first to gain heavy rotation on MTV, he might've gotten more coverage after the CBS ruling Walter Yetnikoff made about how if MTV wouldn't allow R&B artists on Columbia/Epic to have their videos aired on MTV that people like Billy Joel and 'em wouldn't present their videos to them. Rick James was the first R&B artist to criticize MTV for their lack of black performers and Herbie Hancock and Eddy Grant's videos were the only ones in heavy rotation as far as I'm concerned because they weren't R&B though I can say "Rock It" was the first 'dance' video though it really wasn't because they had playthings and Herbie's face was on the TV .

What made Michael's transition to MTV important wasn't even the fact that he was black, but he had a mainstream pop appeal but had an R&B voice. He was an entertainer and he used video to bring stories. That's how all of a sudden, everybody and their mother started putting videos by R&B artists on TV, and dance artists in general. Madonna got a LOT of play after Michael started getting heavy rotation. Whitney got play because like Michael (and Prince) he had mainstream appeal. So while I think the story is kind of exaggerated that Michael was THE first ever, he did play a pivotal role to break the barriers on that channel.

And "Billie Jean" isn't even a "subpar" song so I don't know what that reviewer was SMOKING. That song is still tops regardless of how Mike got it. Didn't make him a biter and the song became a big hit and visually he did great things with that song.

Timmy84 said:

Oh please, don't say these words in fornt of anyone because they will laugh at you , it bewildering how some people try to downplay mj's legacy and achievements , it was billie jean sung by Michael jackson that broke the racial barrier on MTV, Its a common fact...

In fact Mj was the man who opened the doors for other black artists to played On MTv and that was including prince.....this is not even a debate, its a fact.

seeingvoices12 said:

"Beat It" broke the color barrier.

Timmy84 said:

yeah right ....lol

You are right, Billie Jean King did change the world.

The reason people hate michael jackson now is because he has survived.. humanity hates to see a man who has endured so much and still stands. He is proud of his achievements and his beliefs and has stood up for himself despite massive criticism.

People just cant understand why he hasnt given in, they want him to break so they can build him up again... like Mariah did, like Elvis did... but Michael is different, he has a determination that people just cant get there heads around.

Its the same with Elizabeth Taylor... noone likes her now, despite the fact she had an amazing career.. if she wasnt so strong willed she'd probably have died years ago..

These people are survivers.

Some of you are tripping, fo real. 'Michael wasn't the first Black played on mtv, blah, blah, blah'. Please. If my boy Prince went before him, he went alone. When MJ went , he took all of the Brothas with him. He made the IMPACT! Rosa Parks was not the first black person to 'not give up her seat', but HER actions made the difference. That's why we celebrate HER.Understand now?
How old are some of you guys? Were you even around during the 80s. I'm a child of the 80s. I know the impact of MJ. Nothing like it before or since. Love Prince and Madonna too. But there's no denying what Mike did for Black artists, or MTV, or music or the industry. Heck, not only did he get Blacks INSIDE, he put MTV on the map. They had a very small audience before Thriller.
And, for the record, Mike was opening doors for Blacks as a lead for the Jacksons way before Thriller or Off The Wall. But with thriller, the walls fell down! C'mon, give credit where it's due. Blacks started getting the awards they deserved, the endorsements, and the lists goes on and on.
Why do you think the Black artists pay so much homage to MJ? It's because they are in the industry. They KNOW what he did for them.
You say, "Oh BJ was not Mike's" LOL. Please. What about Beat IT? WBSS? Rock With You? Bad? DSTYGE? Heartbreak Hotel? and all of the other classics. Were they not his either? Some of you need to stop tripping. LOL.

Johnny Be Goode changed the world?