We started this discussion on another thread and I figured it would be better to continue it here. Is anyone hip to the infamous P-Funk "Black Arc" recordings by Material bassist/producer Bill Laswell? Bill seemed to take members out of the P-Funk camp and put them all in different musical situations,

I thought some of the stuff was pretty out there but cool..

Third Eye/Hardware - Band Of Gypsys' 2??..Nah..but it's OK. Buddy Miles and Bootsy Collins lay it down pretty thick and hard. Stevie Salas (who is not that great of a singer) plays some great quasi-Jimi-wah licks to blend in.

O.G. Funk/Out Of The Dark - Killer musicmanship..The closest a P-Funk fan might get to hearing an all out, heavy guitar driven Funkadelic CD. Billy Bass leads the pack with Bernie Worrell on keys and Spacey T (Fishbone, Sound Barrier) on lead guitar. Spacey's instrumental tribute to Eddie ("Music For My Friend") is pretty cool. The lyrics and vox on the CD are cheesier than Velvetta and cornier than Del Monte.


Slavemaster - Under The 6 - I just picked this up used last month..Very heavy and hardcore. Mike Hampton plays lead guitar on all the cuts (just wished the solos weren't so buried in the mix)..and Mackie (Cro Mags-Bad Brains) plays drums..the CD has heavy Brains influence through out. I saw this CD on e(vil)Bay going for $75.00 (!)

Buddy Miles - Hell And Back - Not a bad joint but not that great. Buddy's a great singer and drummer but he tends to go overboard (as he did on B.O.G) with his vocals.

Mutiny - Aftershock 2005 - Not bad but a little all over the place musically...The guitar work is great and Jerome's beats are heavy as always. But the lead vocals leave little to be desired. Bernie and Mike jam on a couple of tunes. This is more of a Jerome Brailey solo joint then a "Mutiny" CD.

Zillatron - Lord Of The Harvest - The best out of all of them. Metal/ambiance/funk/industrial/soul/rock..it's all here. Buckethead shreds one minute and goes into Eddie territory the next. I wish they would do another one.

Funkcronomicon - Not a Black Arc joint, but classic..anyone that has heard this knows how great it is.

well I've gathered a number of Bill Laswell's side projects, a few of them involving former members of P-funk, although the only ones on that list I'm familiar with are Zillatron and the Funkronomicon. I think Bill Laswell has an unusual knack for assembling and channeling groups from different musical backgrounds, including many of his world music or free improv stuff, but I'm hardly in love with everything he does.

I do remember an interview with Bootsy for a radio station where he was asked what he thought of Bill Laswell in comparison to George Clinton, the interviewers referencing Bernie's comment that the difference between them was that Bill had his business together. Bootsy said that the real cardinal difference was that Bill is of course an actual musician, not just an entertainer, and that he's a consumate eclectic who listens to tons of music of every variety.

I'm very familiar with 'Funkromicon', which I is a great album overall, probably the best P-Funk release of the '90s. It also contains some of Eddie Hazel's last recordings.

I also have Bernie Worrell's 'Blacktronic Science', which is also Laswell-produced and good. There's some cool GC-featuring tracks and a couple of jazz get-downs with Bernie, Maceo Parker and jazz drums great Tony Williams .The record's only weakness is the same as those on the Bernie solo work-outs on the '70s P-Funk albums - boring, self-indulgent organ noodling that says nothing other than 'I'm a cool organ player, I am. I love Bernie's piano work on Parliament tracks like 'Chocolate City' tho, so I'm not down on him in general.

I do have one of the 'Praxis' Laswell albums too, with Bootsy, Bernie, Buckethead and Brain, but apart from the odd Bootsy on vocals track, it's a bit too hardcore and boring for me overall. It just shows there's more to the P-Funk musicians than just funk, I suppose.

My fav 2 are Zillitron and OG Funk. That one cut on OG reminds me of Maggot Brain. I really dig that track.

Zillatron-Lord of the Harvest. My fave and most listened to of the bunch.
Hardware (Bootsy, Buddy Miles, Steve Salas) - Had some good stuff. I need to listen again, it's been awhile.
Mutiny- Once again I need to listen with fresh ears. I remember thinking it was ok.
OG Funk (Billy Bass) - Had some good stuff and some bad stuff (dated rap). It's just cool to have a CD with Billy at the helm.
Slave System- Only listened to a few times and wasn't that impressed. Need another listen.
That's all of the "Black Arc" stuff I have.
As I said, Zillatron, I believe, is the best of the bunch.

"Spyz" really broke it all down very well.

Like I said, I really need to listen again with fresh ears.Whatever the quality though, I'm still glad I have them.
As for the other Bill Laswell/P-Funk collabs go, I still really dig:
Funkcronomicon - A Classic
Blacktronic Science - Great to see collabs with Clinton/Collins/Worrell again. Cool stuff, the "Noodling" non-withstanding
Praxis "Transmutations" - Although almost all instrumental and "out there" at times, a classic. IMO.

Thanks Bfunk ..."Transmutations" is a classic indeed. Praxis is rumored to have another release in 07/08.

Yeah Spyz & Bfunk your joint assessment is pretty much identical to mine.

I continually applaud Laswell's projects becuase he brought in a fresh blast of rock, jazz, funk dub, rap and African and Arabic music when a lot of the commercial ventures dried up (Clinton's association with Paisley Park had dried up and Living Colour just up and disappeared). At that time, Laswell also had projects out on his AXIOM label That's where Axiom Funk - Funkcronimicon and the first Praxis Transmutation appeared. I think AF was an excellent collection of funk and stands with much of what George was doing at the time (or since). Laswell worked his labels to extend beyond funk, rock and hiphop.

Material - Hallucination Engine featured Wayne Shorter, Bootsy Collins and Bernie Worrell along with Africa musician Foday Musa Suso and Middle Eastern throat warbler Simon Shaheen and jazz saxophonist Pharoah Sanders.

Axiom Dub - Mysteries of Creation was a venture into dub reggae with Sly & Robbie, Dub Syndicate and Jah Wobble. This was more of a trance type groove, but Last Poet Umar Bin Hassan's Be Bop Or Be Dead had killer grooves laid by Bernie, Buddy Miles and Bootsy. I'm not much on rap and Hassan's spoken word comes off as pure poetry.

Bahia Black - Ritual Beating System blended in Brazilian music from Carlinhos Brown with assists fropm Wayne SHorter, Herbie HAncock and jazz avant-garde saxist Henry Threadgill. Threadgill also had a great jazz lp out with his band Very Very Circus called Too Much Sugar For a Dime.

Here's Laswell's AXIOM link and it cross references to his BLACK ARC catalog http://music.hyperreal.or...els/axiom/

Laswell came around with a remake of Miles Davis' electric period works in a big remix project called PANTHALASSA. It was overly ambitious and tampered with things that didn't really need tampering. Highly criticized, though many admired his vision, Laswell may have worn his welcome out on this one. His efforts went deeper into trance, dub-reggae and more estoteric, foreign artists.

PFunkjazz said:

Interesting take. I have really wanted 2 like a lot of the laswell material but most of it I just can't FEEL. I'm glad it's out there 4 people 2 enjoy though.

I actually have quite a few Laswell projects from this era. Love the mixture of musical styles and openness of it all.
Material - Hallicinantion Engine is a must have for any true music lover with an open mind.
I really like Axiom Dub as well. We should start a new thread on Laswell alone. There's so much out there. Not sure what he's been up to lately. Need to look into that.

Bfunkthe1 said:

Retitle this one, because if we're talking "PFunk in the 90s" we'd be talking about DOPE DOGS, FINGER, TAPOFAOM, BLACKTRONIC SCIENCE OTHERSIDE OF WOO and their last run of really great live shows.

PFunkjazz said:

While 'Panthalassa' might be considered 'Miles lite', I personally really liked it. I like the original stuff too, but often find it a little overlong, unfocused and horribly mixed ('On the Corner' and 'Get Up With It' especially).

Laswell's album cuts to the chase, making that music sound more like itself. Plus, he turns up the bass and mixes the drums as a funk or rock producer would, whereas Teo Macero's mixes often lost the groove due to mixing the rhythm tracks too low. Laswell accentuates the existing funk in there imo, whilst adding only subtle synth atmospheres (I think) and new effects, like dub chambers etc. He also realised that some of that stuff was sorta trying to be dubby, but the original producer didn't know it.

It's good that we have both the original albums and 'Panthalassa' out there. If the latter provided a more accessible intro to electric Miles, imo it did its job .
[Edited 6/4/07 4:35am]

Miles said:

Good points, I'll make a mental note for when I spin either Laswell or Macero's mix.
I hear an OTC

the only one i have heard is Funcronomicon wich I loved especially sacred to the pain, I have been wanting to hear the others but I think they are all out of print, I heard good things about Zillatron, I have to hunt that one down obne of these days.

PFunkjazz said:

That got chopped off eh?

Anyways there's an ON THE CORNER box set coming that might clean up some of Macero's splicings and edits, but then that is his very point of contetntion and has enforced a delay.

Meloh I think you can find "Zillatron" on e(vil)bay. "Panthalassa" is incredible..I know he did one for Bob Marley also. I wonder if Bill has any other Eddie stuff in his vaults.

SPYZFAN1 said:

come to think of it I am not sure but I think my brother has Zillatron, I agree Ebay is the devil

SPYZFAN1 said:

Yeah, I've had Third Eye for awhile. Should have been better than it was, I thought. Just cuz of Buddy and Bootsy. I think Salas was the wrong cat. I've seen Steve play live at the Viper Room. Again, it was o.k. What I call "typical Hendrix". Not taking it somewhere else, like your OWN style. I also have Zillatron and O.G. Funk. I dig Zillatron.