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PrintableNo, YOU have to look at it two ways. If you choose only to see it in those ways, those are YOUR choices. In truth, its a lot more complex than that. You can't define how others view things or offer a couple of choices and force every opinion into either box. That's shortsighted.
But now you're being hypocritical because you're ONLY looking at it from the ARTIST point of view, so that would then make YOU shortsighted. Look at it from a entrepreneurial point of view as well and you will see it makes very sound business sense. I don't have to ask myself questions I already know the answer to. You can't just smear the lines and call it all the same. That's lying. Merchants haven't always been that deep into the music game. Just like NBA players didn't used to get huge endorsement contracts that surpassed their salaries. It was a peaceful co-existence until the takeovers started in the early 90s when the industry almost bottomed out. I've spoken on this many times before.
I hate to break this to you but big business has ALWAYS been deep into the music game, the thing is, a lot of didn't see it because the ability to see them wasn't as big as it has gotten, but they've always been there. It's called advertisement and sponsors. This is nothing new and very common knowledge. Why?
You MUST be a fan. I don't respect that he "got something out of the game" because he's put nothing in. Mindless, petty JUNK. Another street story that we've all already heard told and told much better. All I've heard from him is silly squabbles with other artists and drama to distract from the lack of substance or talent in his music. Why should anyone other than his fam and friends be happy for him? Ok, but the problem with your whole stance is that you don't like his musc nor the artist, so your view is already slanted for the "Hateration" angle and no matter what he does you will continue to hate on him. If he saved the life of 3 kids in a burning home, something tells me your disdain for this man would STILL not allow you to give himhis props on saving their lives. Again, you need to be able to separate "artist" from "entrepreneur" and I just don't see you being able to do that. Tell ya what, YOU go be "happy for him" and I'll go Laura's route and hope that his newfound wealth coupled with the future failure of "Curtis" will show him a quick exit out of the business and on to other things.
But can I ask why do you seem SO pissed at this financial development for this dude? Like, why such a bitter-style of commentary when the development isn't even about his music? It just seems very personal on your end, as if he's the SOLE reason for why Hip Hop is wack right now. It's ok to not be a fan of the dude but to just spew such disgust at someone that has made a sound business move just seems like you're just hating on him no matter what he does. Make Afros not War   | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Afronomical said: I read BK's post and I guess from a fan point of view it would irk some folk, but I have absolutely no problem with him doing what every person of every race is doing - Going for his. I can't knock the hustle. I can't hate on a brotha that's turned the game out and is now reaping the benefits, regardless of if his music is trash. And I'm no way a fan of Fitty, I'm far from a G-rap fan, but cats like him, Jay-Z, Diddy, and Nelly are just pimping the game and guess what, that's exactly what they're supposed to do.
Its this misguided notion that has the music business on the verge of collapse. Pimping the business is exactly what you're NOT supposed to do but every so-called "hustler" and his brotha are getting in the game doing the same shit in different ways. This music business is a place of business for MUSICIANS. ARTISTS. If you're not a music fan then its understandable that you wouldn't care or even condone what these merchants do. Most people seem to be taking the lazy way out these days. They don't care about the music they make. That's why their catalogs ain't worth SHIT. No resale value whatsoever. Nobody would use anything 50 has done other than "In Da Club" years from now. Maybe "Straight To The Bank" will make it onto a soundtrack somewhere one day but that's about it. His music is garbage, like most of the pop-hop at the top of the charts. Its disposable. Great songs stand the test of time and lot of artists are writing filler material and using marketing tricks to sell the music while they milk advertisers and other companies for the "spoils". That shit is dragging the music business down. Everybody's hustling instead of creating great songs that people will value. As it stands, nobody wants to keep most of this bullshit that comes out. Most of it is quick fix music. Look at the top of the charts and you find the lamest 4-bar repeating, 3:20 commercial infused, wack ass BULLSHIT to date; only to be replaced by more of the same the next Tuesday of the next week. 20 songs on a damn CD? Why? Because its FILLER. Kids have the attention spans of gnats from being bombarded with so much advertising that they can't even stand to listen to instrument solos anymore, not that this generation of musicians know how to play any. With no music in the schools they don't know jack about music and are left up to the ad men who flood the radio with jingles to teach them. That ain't gonna happen. The only thing they teach is consumerism, much like the rappers. Let's be honest, rapping isn't nearly as hard has people try to make it out be. That too has been a well planned marketing campaign. As it stands, the business seems to be full of rappers who want to become moguls, rappers who want to wash their drug money, rappers who really want to act, rappers who want to be athletes, and rappers who want to sing but can't. Anytime a rapper who loves hip-hop gets any press, they get called "soft" or "backpack" and get played to the wayside. If these rappers want to be entrepreneurs so badly, why don't they just do it? Don't try to sneak in through "pop-hop", go head-to-head with the boys on Forbes' list. They can't. They're not smart or clever enough and they're too damned lazy. Its all about the easy money. True artists and fans of music love MUSIC so YES it irks MUSIC fans when there's no good MUSIC. It may be fine for casual listeners but its a slap in the face to those of us who actually love music. Don't take it bad, but I think you are confusing Music which is one thing and Music business which is another thing. If you look up to real musicians, they are many young musicians from the Underground music scene | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Just what we need. Another undercover businessman in the music industry, churning out shit music in order to get the money to do "other things". These jackasses don't care about music because they don't have any talent. They aren't artists. You have Puffy - clothier. Jay-Z - clothier, ball team owner. Nelly - ball team owner, clothier, energy drink distributor. Lil Jon - energy drink distributor. And of course 50 - clothier, vitamin water distributor. I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records. Jay-Z included. 50 has NEVER talked about his music in interviews. Its always his profits. That's how you separate an artist from a fake. An artist will always talk about MUSIC. He's just another businessman using the music industry. Other rappers use it to wash their drug money. Who suffers? The public. There are too many merchants and not enough music.
[Edited 5/26/07 8:15am] brother.. speak that truth ..   | |
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TonyVanDam said: laurarichardson said: ----- Who the fuck cares? I can only hope he takes his profit and leaves the music industry for good. He is a drug dealing piece of scum and I am sure his investment came from drug profits. You just answer your own question. My only concern now is that a lot of children (in the hoods, suburbs, where ever) will finally be "convince" that drug dealing is worth it after all. Keep in mind that it was Curtis' drug money that started the basics of his growning business empire in the first place.....long before he ever thought about teaching himself how to rap.[/b] sad situation .. the role model for youth of today  .. omgosh .. where to even begin with this character...and thing too though.. you gotta go after the record labels also.. they promote his garbage .. KNOWING.. before hand all the hell he's gonna start ..
BlaqueKnight said: True artists and fans of music love MUSIC so YES it irks MUSIC fans when there's no good MUSIC. It may be fine for casual listeners but its a slap in the face to those of us who actually love music. [Edited 5/28/07 15:18pm] | |
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Afronomical said: But now you're being hypocritical because you're ONLY looking at it from the ARTIST point of view, so that would then make YOU shortsighted. Look at it from a entrepreneurial point of view as well and you will see it makes very sound business sense. Well excuse me for looking at MUSIC from a musical sense. I didn't mean to cloud the music business with a little thing called music. My bad. 
Show me where I said it made no sense for him to diversify his money. SHOW ME. QUOTE ME. You can't. I said just the opposite. There is a thing called balance. If you're just using the music business as your side hustle, call it what it is for you (which he did in that article I posted), but don't expect anyone to believe you when you claim to have musical integrity and you can't seriously expect anyone with any sense to respect what you are doing. Russ Wright sold Demensions International to Honeywell but I'm not on here talking about it because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with music, just like 50 making money off vitamin water. Afronomical said: Ok, but the problem with your whole stance is that you don't like his musc nor the artist, so your view is already slanted for the "Hateration" angle and no matter what he does you will continue to hate on him. If he saved the life of 3 kids in a burning home, something tells me your disdain for this man would STILL not allow you to give himhis props on saving their lives. Again, you need to be able to separate "artist" from "entrepreneur" and I just don't see you being able to do that.
Dude, miss me with all that arrogant, condescending "you need to" blah, blah. and "I don't see you being able to blah, blah". You don't know me. You are the one about to take it to a personal level with that mess. You may be fairly new to the org but you don't know who you're talking to. I have broken separation of artist and businessman down on several artists including Prince and on more than a few occasions. I admit bias. I DON'T like his music and from the way he acts in interviews, I probably wouldn't like him either BUT I don't know him personally. He could be the nicest guy in the world but my attitude about his music would still be the same. He does seem arrogant as fuck in that he seems to think he's smarter than everyone. He uses political tactics when he speaks, which denotes deception in and of itself and everything out of his mouth seems to be about money and numbers. NEVER MUSIC. Look at the word artist. ART-IST. One who studies or indulges in ART. Music is ART. Money is not ART. I have a problem with anyone who is of a "money by any means necessary" mentality. My question to you is why are you such a Stan when it comes to dude? Are you on his payroll? Is he breakin' you off a piece of his profits? You are the one who seemed to take my attack on his musical credibility personally. I stand firmly on what I said. Afronomical said: But can I ask why do you seem SO pissed at this financial development for this dude? Like, why such a bitter-style of commentary when the development isn't even about his music? It just seems very personal on your end, as if he's the SOLE reason for why Hip Hop is wack right now. It's ok to not be a fan of the dude but to just spew such disgust at someone that has made a sound business move just seems like you're just hating on him no matter what he does.
I explained my beef with him and all others like him. Re-read my posts. People who use the music industry for a side hustle or as a stepping stone to other things contribute to the deterioration of the music business. Its not "solely" him as you tried to imply that I am insinuating but he IS one. I am disgusted with people who use the music business as a hustle and people who dismiss it as an innocent "come up". Its that same permissive mentality that allows drug dealers to run the streets with "credibility". People should be disgusted with "hustlers" but if you are a capitalist like 50, Puff and Russell Simmons you would obviously see nothing wrong because profit is your primary concern. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Afronomical said: But now you're being hypocritical because you're ONLY looking at it from the ARTIST point of view, so that would then make YOU shortsighted. Look at it from a entrepreneurial point of view as well and you will see it makes very sound business sense. Well excuse me for looking at MUSIC from a musical sense. I didn't mean to cloud the music business with a little thing called music. My bad.
Show me where I said it made no sense for him to diversify his money. SHOW ME. QUOTE ME. You can't. I said just the opposite. There is a thing called balance. If you're just using the music business as your side hustle, call it what it is for you (which he did in that article I posted), but don't expect anyone to believe you when you claim to have musical integrity and you can't seriously expect anyone with any sense to respect what you are doing. Russ Wright sold Demensions International to Honeywell but I'm not on here talking about it because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with music, just like 50 making money off vitamin water. Dude, miss me with all that arrogant, condescending "you need to" blah, blah. and "I don't see you being able to blah, blah". You don't know me. You are the one about to take it to a personal level with that mess. You may be fairly new to the org but you don't know who you're talking to. I have broken separation of artist and businessman down on several artists including Prince and on more than a few occasions. I admit bias. I DON'T like his music and from the way he acts in interviews, I probably wouldn't like him either BUT I don't know him personally. He could be the nicest guy in the world but my attitude about his music would still be the same. He does seem arrogant as fuck in that he seems to think he's smarter than everyone. He uses political tactics when he speaks, which denotes deception in and of itself and everything out of his mouth seems to be about money and numbers. NEVER MUSIC. Look at the word artist. ART-IST. One who studies or indulges in ART. Music is ART. Money is not ART. I have a problem with anyone who is of a "money by any means necessary" mentality. My question to you is why are you such a Stan when it comes to dude? Are you on his payroll? Is he breakin' you off a piece of his profits? You are the one who seemed to take my attack on his musical credibility personally. I stand firmly on what I said. Afronomical said: But can I ask why do you seem SO pissed at this financial development for this dude? Like, why such a bitter-style of commentary when the development isn't even about his music? It just seems very personal on your end, as if he's the SOLE reason for why Hip Hop is wack right now. It's ok to not be a fan of the dude but to just spew such disgust at someone that has made a sound business move just seems like you're just hating on him no matter what he does.
I explained my beef with him and all others like him. Re-read my posts. People who use the music industry for a side hustle or as a stepping stone to other things contribute to the deterioration of the music business. Its not "solely" him as you tried to imply that I am insinuating but he IS one. I am disgusted with people who use the music business as a hustle and people who dismiss it as an innocent "come up". Its that same permissive mentality that allows drug dealers to run the streets with "credibility". People should be disgusted with "hustlers" but if you are a capitalist like 50, Puff and Russell Simmons you would obviously see nothing wrong because profit is your primary concern. Im With ya Blaque..Its sad that we even have a 50 cent in the so called "MUSIC" business... | |
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Well excuse me for looking at MUSIC from a musical sense. I didn't mean to cloud the music business with a little thing called music. My bad.
Show me where I said it made no sense for him to diversify his money. SHOW ME. QUOTE ME. You can't. I said just the opposite. There is a thing called balance. If you're just using the music business as your side hustle, call it what it is for you (which he did in that article I posted), but don't expect anyone to believe you when you claim to have musical integrity and you can't seriously expect anyone with any sense to respect what you are doing. Russ Wright sold Demensions International to Honeywell but I'm not on here talking about it because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with music, just like 50 making money off vitamin water. That's my whole point, bro. You're JUST looking at it from the music point of view and what 50 did was from a BUSINESS point of view. That's been my whole point with you on this. I never said you didn't say he could diversify so I don't even know where you got that from? But I'm just still baffled at how hostile you seem to be towards someone you never respected musically in the first place? I mean, isn't this what YOU would EXPECT from HIM to do? I just don't see the reason for the tirade that's all. Dude, miss me with all that arrogant, condescending "you need to" blah, blah. and "I don't see you being able to blah, blah". You don't know me. You are the one about to take it to a personal level with that mess. You may be fairly new to the org but you don't know who you're talking to. I have broken separation of artist and businessman down on several artists including Prince and on more than a few occasions.
I admit bias. I DON'T like his music and from the way he acts in interviews, I probably wouldn't like him either BUT I don't know him personally. He could be the nicest guy in the world but my attitude about his music would still be the same. He does seem arrogant as fuck in that he seems to think he's smarter than everyone. He uses political tactics when he speaks, which denotes deception in and of itself and everything out of his mouth seems to be about money and numbers. NEVER MUSIC. Look at the word artist. ART-IST. One who studies or indulges in ART. Music is ART. Money is not ART. I have a problem with anyone who is of a "money by any means necessary" mentality. My question to you is why are you such a Stan when it comes to dude? Are you on his payroll? Is he breakin' you off a piece of his profits? You are the one who seemed to take my attack on his musical credibility personally. I stand firmly on what I said. I wasn't being condescending, you took that the wrong way and you just seem to be on edge, bro, relax, it's just not that deep to get this worked-up over this. Chill. Thing is, you don't know me either and what I know about the industry, so I'd ease up on this "King of the Org" bravado you've got going on. But the bold part of your post is what I was getting at - You just don't like the dude and his music, and that's your pregative but to try and diss the man for pulling off a major business deal is just being a hater. I'm just calling it how I see it. I think your greatest error is actually trying to consider him an "artist" in the traditional maning of the word. You should know that the majority of these rappers are ONLY in the music game to make money. I mean, did you REALLY think 50 was a "true artist"? I'm a Stan? More like a person that appreciates someone making $400 million dollars on a legit business deal - That then makes most of the world Stans then huh? So if I'm a Stan are you a Dwyck for hating on the dude's savvy business deal? I never took it personal, but it seems you have, and why? I'm just trying to figure out where you're so bothered by all of this. It's your choice to hate on the dude, I'm just saying it makes no sense and almost a waste of time, especially when you KNOW he's not a "real artist" yet you want to hold him to "real artist" standards.  Make Afros not War | |
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Its sad that we even have a 50 cent in the so called "MUSIC" business...
Well, which came first - 50 Cent or the fans that clamor for 50 Cent? It's a 3 part blame: 1 - The Fans for wanting that wack ass shit 2 - The record companies that see what the fans clamor for and promote that type of wack ass shit 3 - The rappers that see the fans want that wack ass shit and see the record companies that want that wack ass shit, so naturally they put out that wack ass shit It's a cycle and as long as there's money being made within that cycle, then it will never break. Simple as that. Make Afros not War | |
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Afronomical said: Its sad that we even have a 50 cent in the so called "MUSIC" business...
Well, which came first - 50 Cent or the fans that clamor for 50 Cent? It's a 3 part blame: 1 - The Fans for wanting that wack ass shit 2 - The record companies that see what the fans clamor for and promote that type of wack ass shit 3 - The rappers that see the fans want that wack ass shit and see the record companies that want that wack ass shit, so naturally they put out that wack ass shit It's a cycle and as long as there's money being made within that cycle, then it will never break. Simple as that. I hear ya...But..Im Very Much in the music business "as an artist" and It is very sad that I am often called "over qualified" simply because I play instruments and appreciate and write songs in various styles/genres and I actually need $$$ to do little things like record and pay session musicians to play horns on my stuff ect... labels actually compare ignorant fools that sample everything they make "from real musicians" with Real artist/musicians that create original works..and 10 times out of 10 these days..The real dude is too REAL to be manipulated and USED like the ignorant no talent thug wannabe's so they get dropped or put on the back burner while the world see's only the fools willing to do whatever they have to do to make a quick buck...It sucks ! and I feel really sorry for kids growing up these days...the standards they are trying to aspire to are GARBAGE ! [Edited 5/28/07 19:26pm] | |
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Afronomical said: I wasn't being condescending, you took that the wrong way[b] (WTF???) and you just seem to be on edge, bro, relax, it's just not that deep to get this worked-up over this. Chill. Thing is, you don't know me either and what I know about the industry, so I'd ease up on this "King of the Org" bravado you've got going on. But the bold part of your post is what I was getting at - You just don't like the dude and his music, and that's your pregative but to try and diss the man for pulling off a major business deal is just being a hater. I'm just calling it how I see it. I think your greatest error is actually trying to consider him an "artist" in the traditional maning of the word. You should know that the majority of these rappers are ONLY in the music game to make money. I mean, did you REALLY think 50 was a "true artist"? I'm a Stan? More like a person that appreciates someone making $400 million dollars on a legit business deal - That then makes most of the world Stans then huh? So if I'm a Stan are you a Dwyck for hating on the dude's savvy business deal? I never took it personal, but it seems you have, and why? I'm just trying to figure out where you're so bothered by all of this. It's your choice to hate on the dude, I'm just saying it makes no sense and almost a waste of time, especially when you KNOW he's not a "real artist" yet you want to hold him to "real artist" standards. You're doing more back peddling than is worth my time to address so I'll just say this: LOOK AT WHERE YOU ARE. You are on a site where many of the posters here have a strong admiration for music. Many people like Prince for his musical excellence. You come here and try to make a case for a business deal on a site where the primary focus is MUSIC. This should actually be in the general section since it has nothing to do with music. Vitamin water has nothing to do with music. If you're still trying to figure out what bothers me about this after I have stated so in almost every post, I can't help you. Maybe you have reading comprehension problems? Your arguments are moot, dude. I dissed 50 and others for hustling the music business, so yes if that makes me a "hater" then I accept that. I can think of a lot worse things to be, like a no talent hustler or a mindless drone who's suppose to celebrate the non-musical accomplishments of a less than mediocre rapper just because we share the same skin color. 50 is musical pollution. By your logic, I'm supposed to celebrate capitalism over all things. I did not celebrate Jay-Z when he bought into that ball team, I did not celebrate Russell when Phat Farm took off, I did not celebrate Bob Johnson's decision to sell BET to ViaCON and I will not celebrate "Fiddy"'s vitamin water contract. So, yes - I'm a hater according to you.
If I am a hater, I'm a hater with the good sense to know good music when I hear it, though. I'm cool with that. My question still remains: WHY DO YOU CARE? So what if one person on a MUSIC message board doesn't fall out praising a business move that has nothing to do with music. Why are you defending dude so tough? What's in it for you? If you don't care, press on. Bounce. Kick rocks. | |
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prettymansson said: I hear ya...But..Im Very Much in the music business "as an artist" and It is very sad that I am often called "over qualified" simply because I play instruments and appreciate and write songs in various styles/genres and I actually need $$$ to do little things like record and pay session musicians to play horns on my stuff ect... labels actually compare ignorant fools that sample everything they make "from real musicians" with Real artist/musicians that create original works..and 10 times out of 10 these days..The real dude is too REAL to be manipulated and USED like the ignorant no talent thug wannabe's so they get dropped or put on the back burner while the world see's only the fools willing to do whatever they have to do to make a quick buck...It sucks ! and I feel really sorry for kids growing up these days...the standards they are trying to aspire to are GARBAGE ! | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Just what we need. Another undercover businessman in the music industry, churning out shit music in order to get the money to do "other things". These jackasses don't care about music because they don't have any talent. They aren't artists. You have Puffy - clothier. Jay-Z - clothier, ball team owner. Nelly - ball team owner, clothier, energy drink distributor. Lil Jon - energy drink distributor. And of course 50 - clothier, vitamin water distributor. I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records. Jay-Z included. 50 has NEVER talked about his music in interviews. Its always his profits. That's how you separate an artist from a fake. An artist will always talk about MUSIC. He's just another businessman using the music industry. Other rappers use it to wash their drug money. Who suffers? The public. There are too many merchants and not enough music.
[Edited 5/26/07 8:15am] Well, let's not forget that the 3121 fragrance line by a certain artist we all know and love is about to drop. "I Was FINE Back in the Day!" | |
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PicassoFace said: BlaqueKnight said: Just what we need. Another undercover businessman in the music industry, churning out shit music in order to get the money to do "other things". These jackasses don't care about music because they don't have any talent. They aren't artists. You have Puffy - clothier. Jay-Z - clothier, ball team owner. Nelly - ball team owner, clothier, energy drink distributor. Lil Jon - energy drink distributor. And of course 50 - clothier, vitamin water distributor. I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records. Jay-Z included. 50 has NEVER talked about his music in interviews. Its always his profits. That's how you separate an artist from a fake. An artist will always talk about MUSIC. He's just another businessman using the music industry. Other rappers use it to wash their drug money. Who suffers? The public. There are too many merchants and not enough music.
[Edited 5/26/07 8:15am] Well, let's not forget that the 3121 fragrance line by a certain artist we all know and love is about to drop. 
Let's at least try.
As I said, difersifying funds is one thing; hustling your way through the business is another. Prince has put in much work in the field of music. | |
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prettymansson said: Afronomical said: Well, which came first - 50 Cent or the fans that clamor for 50 Cent? It's a 3 part blame: 1 - The Fans for wanting that wack ass shit 2 - The record companies that see what the fans clamor for and promote that type of wack ass shit 3 - The rappers that see the fans want that wack ass shit and see the record companies that want that wack ass shit, so naturally they put out that wack ass shit It's a cycle and as long as there's money being made within that cycle, then it will never break. Simple as that. I hear ya...But..Im Very Much in the music business "as an artist" and It is very sad that I am often called "over qualified" simply because I play instruments and appreciate and write songs in various styles/genres and I actually need $$$ to do little things like record and pay session musicians to play horns on my stuff ect... labels actually compare ignorant fools that sample everything they make "from real musicians" with Real artist/musicians that create original works..and 10 times out of 10 these days..The real dude is too REAL to be manipulated and USED like the ignorant no talent thug wannabe's so they get dropped or put on the back burner while the world see's only the fools willing to do whatever they have to do to make a quick buck...It sucks ! and I feel really sorry for kids growing up these days...the standards they are trying to aspire to are GARBAGE ! [Edited 5/28/07 19:26pm] Yeah, I agree. I'm a music critic for a music publication and that always comes up in interviews with artists, so I know the frustration you're going through. The neo soul genre suffers the most and their frustration is the loudest but seldom heard. Make Afros not War | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Afronomical said: I wasn't being condescending, you took that the wrong way[b] (WTF???) and you just seem to be on edge, bro, relax, it's just not that deep to get this worked-up over this. Chill. Thing is, you don't know me either and what I know about the industry, so I'd ease up on this "King of the Org" bravado you've got going on. But the bold part of your post is what I was getting at - You just don't like the dude and his music, and that's your pregative but to try and diss the man for pulling off a major business deal is just being a hater. I'm just calling it how I see it. I think your greatest error is actually trying to consider him an "artist" in the traditional maning of the word. You should know that the majority of these rappers are ONLY in the music game to make money. I mean, did you REALLY think 50 was a "true artist"? I'm a Stan? More like a person that appreciates someone making $400 million dollars on a legit business deal - That then makes most of the world Stans then huh? So if I'm a Stan are you a Dwyck for hating on the dude's savvy business deal? I never took it personal, but it seems you have, and why? I'm just trying to figure out where you're so bothered by all of this. It's your choice to hate on the dude, I'm just saying it makes no sense and almost a waste of time, especially when you KNOW he's not a "real artist" yet you want to hold him to "real artist" standards. You're doing more back peddling than is worth my time to address so I'll just say this: LOOK AT WHERE YOU ARE. You are on a site where many of the posters here have a strong admiration for music. Many people like Prince for his musical excellence. You come here and try to make a case for a business deal on a site where the primary focus is MUSIC. This should actually be in the general section since it has nothing to do with music. Vitamin water has nothing to do with music. If you're still trying to figure out what bothers me about this after I have stated so in almost every post, I can't help you. Maybe you have reading comprehension problems? Your arguments are moot, dude. I dissed 50 and others for hustling the music business, so yes if that makes me a "hater" then I accept that. I can think of a lot worse things to be, like a no talent hustler or a mindless drone who's suppose to celebrate the non-musical accomplishments of a less than mediocre rapper just because we share the same skin color. 50 is musical pollution. By your logic, I'm supposed to celebrate capitalism over all things. I did not celebrate Jay-Z when he bought into that ball team, I did not celebrate Russell when Phat Farm took off, I did not celebrate Bob Johnson's decision to sell BET to ViaCON and I will not celebrate "Fiddy"'s vitamin water contract. So, yes - I'm a hater according to you.
If I am a hater, I'm a hater with the good sense to know good music when I hear it, though. I'm cool with that. My question still remains: WHY DO YOU CARE? So what if one person on a MUSIC message board doesn't fall out praising a business move that has nothing to do with music. Why are you defending dude so tough? What's in it for you? If you don't care, press on. Bounce. Kick rocks. Now you're just arguing to argue. No one's backpeddling, all I'm doing is pointing out something you refuse to acknowledge: There is a difference between "artist" and "businessman". And yes, this site is about music but it also has other forums like "General Discussion" and "Politics & Religion" that deal with things other than music. But you have proven my point to all of this which is that you just don't like the dude for your own "hater" reasons and that's cool and the gang but I do wonder that if it were Mos Def or Common, something tells me you wouldn't have an issue with those cats getting paid through a deal generated by their relationship to the music industry. I just kind of laugh at your animosity towards someone that chooses to defend ANYBODY'S ability to make a profit through their fame, regardless of if one likes the artist or not. Stop being so angry at the world, bro. Because one thing's for sure, whether you'll man up and admit it or not, if the same deal came YOUR way, you'd do the exact same thing the very man you're hating on did. Just keep it real, is all I ask. Peace. Make Afros not War | |
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BlaqueKnight said: PicassoFace said: Well, let's not forget that the 3121 fragrance line by a certain artist we all know and love is about to drop.
Let's at least try.
As I said, difersifying funds is one thing; [b]hustling your way through the business is another. Prince has put in much work in the field of music. [/b] You don't think Prince had to "hustle" to get WB to allow him complete autonomy on all of his shit from day 1?
Every artist in every music genre "hustles" for something. And no one said life was fair. P's put in work and some artists haven't. That's life. It's all about timing. Do you really think P sits around hating on other artists that have pimped the system, the very same system that pimped HIM? P is probably applauding your boy Fitty for doing just that. Think about it. You're just not making any sense on this one, bro. Make Afros not War | |
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Afronomical said: Now you're just arguing to argue. No one's backpeddling, all I'm doing is pointing out something you refuse to acknowledge: There is a difference between "artist" and "businessman". And yes, this site is about music but it also has other forums like "General Discussion" and "Politics & Religion" that deal with things other than music. But you have proven my point to all of this which is that you just don't like the dude for your own "hater" reasons and that's cool and the gang but I do wonder that if it were Mos Def or Common, something tells me you wouldn't have an issue with those cats getting paid through a deal generated by their relationship to the music industry. I just kind of laugh at your animosity towards someone that chooses to defend ANYBODY'S ability to make a profit through their fame, regardless of if one likes the artist or not. Stop being so angry at the world, bro. Because one thing's for sure, whether you'll man up and admit it or not, if the same deal came YOUR way, you'd do the exact same thing the very man you're hating on did. Just keep it real, is all I ask. Peace. Again, you're back on money. Go back to my first post. What did I say? "I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records." "I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records." and in case you somehow missed it here it is again: Here it comes: get ready: "I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records." Making great music is more important to me from an artist than their side ventures. You seem to be so arrogantly hung up on what YOU think people will do that it is YOU who can't keep it real. You have no idea about me, my values or what's important to me. Speak on yourself and keep the ignorance to a minimum. Not everyone sells their soul for money. Just because you would...oh, wait...I guess its a safe mindset to believe that everyone else would so that you won't have an inferiority complex. My bad. Go right ahead. Again - GENERAL DISCUSSION - VITAMIN WATER. MUSIC: NON-PRINCE - KEYWORD - MUSIC. MUSIC. MUSIC. Get it? MUSIC. You seem to have a problem understanding so I'm repeating it for you. MUSIC. I'm not angry at all. 50's profit does not benefit me in any way. You're a stan. That's the real problem. Afronomical said: "But you have proven my point to all of this which is that you just don't like the dude for your own "hater" reasons"
Comprehension problems. You STILL think its personal and restricted only to 50 even though from the very beginning of this post I cited others and have done so continuously. Here you go:
  
maybe they can teach you some cheers for 50. Holla at me when you know what real music is. Later for you. | |
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Again, you're back on money. Go back to my first post. What did I say? "I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records."
Which you still don't even see as not being able to separate the 2 ("artist" from "businessman"), yet you front as if you are doing just that. You simply don't get it and you'd much rather just hate on the man as a whole rather than JUST for his wack music. You want it both ways but you can't have it that way. Diss him for his wack records. That's one thing. But you can't diss someone that turned a $400 million dollar profit from a company he co-owned. There's just simply no logic in that hateration. None. It just makes you look like "sour grapes" that someone you don't even respect as an artist - and probably don't even consider an artist - has gotten over on the very industry in which you love, cherish, and respect. You should listen to Common's "Used To Love H.E.R." for a better reference as to how I see you in all of this. But as I said earlier, this discussion has gone on long enough and neither will convince the other to see his side. One. Make Afros not War | |
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Afronomical said: Again, you're back on money. Go back to my first post. What did I say? "I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records."
Which you still don't even see as not being able to separate the 2 ("artist" from "businessman"), yet you front as if you are doing just that. You simply don't get it and you'd much rather just hate on the man as a whole rather than JUST for his wack music. You want it both ways but you can't have it that way. Diss him for his wack records. That's one thing. But you can't diss someone that turned a $400 million dollar profit from a company he co-owned. There's just simply no logic in that hateration. None. It just makes you look like "sour grapes" that someone you don't even respect as an artist - and probably don't even consider an artist - has gotten over on the very industry in which you love, cherish, and respect. You should listen to Common's "Used To Love H.E.R." for a better reference as to how I see you in all of this. But as I said earlier, this discussion has gone on long enough and neither will convince the other to see his side. One. Its not working. You need to take this over to allhiphop.com or one of the other rap site messageboards where other stans can co-sign you. Come back when you're ready to talk music, bot about other peoples' money. By the way, I don't love the industry, I love MUSIC but that probably won't sink in so ignore it like you have been. Peace. Stan. | |
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Afronomical said: BlaqueKnight said:
Let's at least try.
As I said, difersifying funds is one thing; [b]hustling your way through the business is another. Prince has put in much work in the field of music. [/b] You don't think Prince had to "hustle" to get WB to allow him complete autonomy on all of his shit from day 1?
Every artist in every music genre "hustles" for something. And no one said life was fair. P's put in work and some artists haven't. That's life. It's all about timing. Do you really think P sits around hating on other artists that have pimped the system, the very same system that pimped HIM? P is probably applauding your boy Fitty for doing just that. Think about it. You're just not making any sense on this one, bro. No offence, but 50 Cent isn't Chuck D or 2pac. And speaking for myself as a concern Prince-fan, I would find it very hard to believe that Prince could support this situation at the moment. Hey, I could be wrong. But I have my doubts. | |
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TonyVanDam said: Afronomical said: You don't think Prince had to "hustle" to get WB to allow him complete autonomy on all of his shit from day 1?
Every artist in every music genre "hustles" for something. And no one said life was fair. P's put in work and some artists haven't. That's life. It's all about timing. Do you really think P sits around hating on other artists that have pimped the system, the very same system that pimped HIM? P is probably applauding your boy Fitty for doing just that. Think about it. You're just not making any sense on this one, bro. No offence, but 50 Cent isn't Chuck D or 2pac. And speaking for myself as a concern Prince-fan, I would find it very hard to believe that Prince could support this situation at the moment. Hey, I could be wrong. But I have my doubts. None taken. But don't be so quick to doubt P and his continued quest for artists to be free on all fronts of the music industry, including artists that WE may not think he's into. And what situation do you doubt that P would be supporting? Is it the fact that 50 Cent made $400 million dollars off of a legitimate business deal? I can't see how P would have issue with that, especially with his own recent deal with Verizon. This isn't a question of "Does P like or respect 50 Cent's music and as an artist?" this is about "50 made a helluva business deal". Make Afros not War | |
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BlaqueKnight said: allhiphop.com
messageboard is on hiatus. Hip hop apologist have to go somewhere  | |
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I love music! I hate 50's stuff tho. I refuse to call it music.
However if I add everything into the equasion. The economy, racism, lack of minority ownership. I think this is great! Much respect for this brother as a businessman. Not as a musician. I think being a businessman is actually far more important. Young people are not the drones many people think they are. Many of them know they will never be rappers. This is a example in diversification. It says dont be blinded by a passion. Make a living and take care of your family anyway you can. Alot of young people will see this and they will not want to be rappers or get shot. I think they will say, I need to get on my grind and get mine. I have always read about many great musicians, artistic geniuses who got totally ripped off by their labels and their decendants lived and died broke! This is the true disgrace and travisty to me personally. I guess I just think the well being of ones family and of black people progressing in society is far more important than being a artistic genius or the love of music for that matter. Does this mean I dont love great music? No. I just think generational prosperity is more important. I have no problem with 50 talking about money or how he makes it. He is not selling drugs now. He's clean. He is making the money legally. You know how many CEO's are hating on this cat right now. This is a victory for minorities, blacks, rappers and all musicians the way I see it. This is a POWER MOVEMENT. I think more rappers and these fly by night singers should get their head out of asses and make all the money they can! This is the music BUSINESS. These rappers are exploited to the hilt. They should exploit the system that seeks to exploit them. They should take advantage of every money making opportunity that they can. All that said, we do need better music. We need more musicians, we need true artist. I just think we need all of the above underneath the brain umblella of good savy business sense. If we take this approach. We may be able to build our own system. Play and sell our own shit and git rid of the middle man. Its always darkest before the dawn. A change is a cummin. The industries downfall can only be taken advantage of if we have power players to pull it off. These are the guys who can change the system. Not the street and basement players selling cd's on myspace. This is not to affend, imho these are the facts of the current reality. [Edited 5/29/07 17:53pm] [Edited 5/29/07 17:56pm] By any means neccesary. There is no try either do or do not! - Malcom X & Yoda...lol | |
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I love music! I hate 50's stuff tho. I refuse to call it music.
However if I add everything into the equasion. The economy, racism, lack of minority ownership. I think this is great! Much respect for this brother as a businessman. Not as a musician. I think being a businessman is actually far more important. Young people are not the drones many people think they are. Many of them know they will never be rappers. This is a example in diversification. It says dont be blinded by a passion. Make a living and take care of your family anyway you can. Alot of young people will see this and they will not want to be rappers or get shot. I think they will say, I need to get on my grind and get mine. I have always read about many great musicians, artistic geniuses who got totally ripped off by their labels and their decendants lived and died broke! This is the true disgrace and travisty to me personally. I guess I just think the well being of ones family and of black people progressing in society is far more important than being a artistic genius or the love of music for that matter. Does this mean I dont love great music? No. I just think generational prosperity is more important. I have no problem with 50 talking about money or how he makes it. He is not selling drugs now. He's clean. He is making the money legally. You know how many CEO's are hating on this cat right now. This is a victory for minorities, blacks, rappers and all musicians the way I see it. This is a POWER MOVEMENT. I think more rappers and these fly by night singers should get their head out of asses and make all the money they can! This is the music BUSINESS. These rappers are exploited to the hilt. They should exploit the system that seeks to exploit them. They should take advantage of every money making opportunity that they can.  Major props for you being able to see this as something much bigger than music as opposed to some "An Anti-50 Cent" campaign.Make Afros not War | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Just what we need. Another undercover businessman in the music industry, churning out shit music in order to get the money to do "other things". These jackasses don't care about music because they don't have any talent. They aren't artists. You have Puffy - clothier. Jay-Z - clothier, ball team owner. Nelly - ball team owner, clothier, energy drink distributor. Lil Jon - energy drink distributor. And of course 50 - clothier, vitamin water distributor. I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records. Jay-Z included. 50 has NEVER talked about his music in interviews. Its always his profits. That's how you separate an artist from a fake. An artist will always talk about MUSIC. He's just another businessman using the music industry. Other rappers use it to wash their drug money. Who suffers? The public. There are too many merchants and not enough music.
[Edited 5/26/07 8:15am] Isn't that what we get with 3121/Musicology/Rave unto the Joy Fantastic? Me thinks so And now we get 3121 perfume.
And one of the theee worst start up clothing lines next to cafe press | |
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Trickology said: BlaqueKnight said: Just what we need. Another undercover businessman in the music industry, churning out shit music in order to get the money to do "other things". These jackasses don't care about music because they don't have any talent. They aren't artists. You have Puffy - clothier. Jay-Z - clothier, ball team owner. Nelly - ball team owner, clothier, energy drink distributor. Lil Jon - energy drink distributor. And of course 50 - clothier, vitamin water distributor. I see nothing wrong people diversifying their funds but none of these fools make great records. Jay-Z included. 50 has NEVER talked about his music in interviews. Its always his profits. That's how you separate an artist from a fake. An artist will always talk about MUSIC. He's just another businessman using the music industry. Other rappers use it to wash their drug money. Who suffers? The public. There are too many merchants and not enough music.
[Edited 5/26/07 8:15am] Isn't that what we get with 3121/Musicology/Rave unto the Joy Fantastic? Me thinks so And now we get 3121 perfume.
And one of the theee worst start up clothing lines next to cafe press Like most issues like this, it all boils down to "Who you like" and "Who you don't like" that either makes this "Ok" or "Not ok." Make Afros not War | |
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