Dayspring said:

Anx said:

Good points.
Hard to get through his head tho'.

Anx said:

Anx said:

that is a very good, concise statement of Prince's hypocritical crusade against the record industry. he wants the best of both worlds: to own what he creates 100% and do any and everything he wants with it, but for someone else to foot the bill not only for the music itself, but the lifestyle that goes with it.

Anx said:

Very true.

I think we tend to OVER estimate these one off deals that Prince has with labels. It may look like big paydays, but they arent. And getting to control his masters is all cool and such, BUT, lets be honest here Musicology and Rave and 3121 havent exactly spawned mega-hits that will net him big $$ by owning the masters. Owning the masters just means the label cant do anything with them outside of his say-so. The one -off deals he has with labels just really keep his name out there, but none of these labels is really doing any PROMO for him thats not part of the deal, so its just like when he was doing the indie stuff, just when he's on a label he doesnt havent to pay for distribution, but at the same time hes not getting his 5-6 dollars a cd, with a label im sure its a flat rate deal, that really isnt much. As far as Prince going back to his mid 90's output, undeground stuff to be more lucrative, i dont see it happening like that anymore, his output has dropped off big time, he now is on a pace of a new record every 2-3 years, i mean did we really think he was going to keep that pace he had when he was in his 20's and 30's?

Exactly. Music still lives on.....from the speakers of the old jams coming from my stereo. It lives there and with the few cool ass people who have the good taste to play the old jams and not buy the new shit. Other than those few places, it's deader than Elvis.

I have friends in a band that just got signed to a label. I asked if he was going to blow his advance money on hookers and blow and get an entourage. He told me that they don't give the big fronts like they used to which is a good thing b/c then they don't have to sell a million cds and do relentless touring to pay back the hookers and blow money. They pretty much get equipment and money for lawyers for each band member. That's definitely a change. Also, I learned that some people start off labels specifically to farm acts and sell their contracts for profit. Takes a lot of investing, but I'm sure it pays off well.
I just hope the music goes along with it. I like SOME of the newer stuff they are doing, but I'm really in love with the older songs. Hmmm, that used to happen with a lot of bands...

BlaqueKnight said:

Very true. Even long after the american music industry is "dead" and gone. there will still be alot of people in their home studios making music. They'll find a way to make money without the major labels.

Tessa said:

Where is it written that he can't have the best of both worlds? Why have so many people accepted and/or romanticized the image of the starving artist? People have more talents, abilities, dreams, ambitions and goals than the world allows them to explore in a lifetime. However, Prince has always explored the many facets of his identity. He has never allowed anyone to paint him with a palette of limited colors. What is wrong with that? Why is that hypocritical? I think that his argument has always been that real musicians should earn real money for their hard work. He's said time and time again that he will not end up like so many other talented musicians who find themselves old, broke and forgotten while music executives and generations of their progeny live lavishly off that musician's hard work.

Why can't Prince be a talented musician who actually reaps the fruits of his labor? I'm not into fancy cars or ostentacious material things, but is it a crime for him to want to buy things that he likes with the money he's earned from his God-given talent and hard work? Also, Prince doesn't live nearly as lavishly as many music executives. However, he's been blessed with an amazing talent that he's tirelessly shared with the world for nearly three decades. With all that talent and hard work, the man should be able to buy as many cars as he wants. He has every right to use the labels for his benefit and criticize them when they don't give him what he wants. That's not living like a pimp, that's being a businessman. Pimps live off of the hard work of other people. Prince has NEVER lived like a pimp. He has worked hard for every penny that he has earned. The real pimps in this situation are the record company executives.

bellanoche said:

Prince wants the labels' money. Then to tell them to fuck off. And then when he's pissed that money away, he wants some more and to tell them to fuck off again. Prince didn't have problems with his label until the early to mid 90's, when he blew what was the BIGGEST recording contract in history (plus a VP position at WB) filming videos for every song he was recording, which would never see the light of day.

Prince never beefed with the company, never led a crusade for artists' rigbhts, until after pissed away the many, many millions of dollars they'd given him and wanted some more.

That's what's hypocritical about it.

Tessa said:

I think in Prince's case he never really understood anything about the business until the early 90's, even he has admitted that. Like alot of others from his era Prince was bringing in tons of money and didnt really know what he was entitled too. I think when he realized all that, was when he took up the crusade, and to be honest many artists around him thought he was crazy, but now almost 15 years later everyone is talking about ownership and masters and deals and getting what they are entitled too, no one was even thinking that way back then. As far as WB, Prince has had issues with them and they with him since the 80's. once Prince broke through to mainstream crossover and he was given his own label, thats when the label and he didnt see eye to eye, there were many instances of him and the label disputing back then, the idea of Purple Rain being another double album, the Crystal Ball idea, and it being a three record set, the Black Album fiasco even the Symobol album was an issue, that wasnt even supposed to be released when it was, WB fought with him about it, they wanted to hold it back at least another 6-8 months and pull another single off D&P but he leaked the Sexy Mf single through clubs forcing their hand on it, so the WB and Prince disputes have always been there.

Tessa said:

Oh, ok thanks. I wasn't aware that Prince's business and financial manager visited these boards. Had I known that you knew the terms of all his Warner contracts and the balance of his bank accounts, I would have kept my uninformed mouth shut. I'm sure that those early Warner contracts were so fair and equitable that Prince was paid well for the work he did from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s, because well all know that new artists always get such fantastic contracts. You're right, he probably never had a problem with his label making the lion's share of those profits.

I also wasn't aware the Warner was "giving" him money, I was foolish enough to think that he had actually earned that money and more based on the millions of dollars that Warner made off him for more than a decade and continues to make off him by owning his masters. I just didn't know that Prince was someone who likes to go to labels with his hand out offering nothing in return. It's so obvious that these labels haven't earned any money off him, rather they've simply funded his extravagant lifestyle. Who knew that Warner and the others were so benevolent? Thanks for the 411.

lastdecember said:

and that is my point. He even mentions this in the song "Golden Parachute," in the line when he says "17 years old misled by a so-called parachute." That whole song is about waking up and realizing the way that record companies get over on artists. He admits his ignorance to the biz side of music. I don't care about how Prince spends his money. If he squanders it on lavish living then that's his fault. However, Prince and every other musician should be fairly compensated for the work that they do. Record companies can make a profit without being greedy. They don't have to profit gauge. Prince has even said that there is room for everyone to make money, so it's not like he is trying to exclude the labels from making any money. He has also aknowledged the beneficial role that labels play for many artists. However, that doesn't justify them raping artist's of profits and owning the rights to their creations. I applaud him for exploring new business models, which other artists are now trying. No matter what you think of him, he brought this discussion of record companies, contracts and master ownership to the forefont, and it's made a lot of younger and established artists wiser. It has also given established artists courage to demand more and share their own experiences to help educate others.

Even Anita Baker said she thought Prince was crazy for running around with slave on his face. Then she said she realized what he was talking about when she tried to obtain her masters from her label. She said she even called him and thanked him for shedding light on the issue.

nevermind. i've been debating this same argument for 10 years now. it's tired.
[Edited 5/6/07 18:37pm]

bellanoche said:

When you sign a contract, you are legally obligated to abide by its terms. If you don't like it; DON'T SIGN. He signed and didn't like it. He demanded change. WB wasn't having that. End of story. No exceptions (not even Prince is exempt) No excuses.

BlaqueKnight said:

bingo was his name O.