Its true, anyway you look at it, Consolidation killed music and music retail. Look at anything that troubles you about music, and you will find Consolidation at the root of the problem.

1. All the artists sounding the same and looking the same- The root, Consolidation, how? well the combining of POP/RB and Rap has lead to this. Some people may think its cool to have all this under one roof, but its not. No one is stretching anymore. Whether its guest rappers on every other song, or its the same producers being used all over the place, which leads to the same beats being used everywhere, this is no more "sound" in music.

2. Radio and Media- the Consolidation of Media outlets has led to things like, when you have an album coming out, you are on every mag cover, you are on every newshow,talkshow,videoshow, etc.. No one is just a musician anymore, people are "media"stars. Case in point, I bet that if JESSICA ALBA wanted to she could sell a million records, why? Shes hot, she gets mag/media covers, just slap some beats together, give her some sexy videos, and boom million seller.

And as for Radio, the consolidation of labels has led to the freedom taken away from DJ's, there is no way a DJ could do what they did in the 70's and 80's. Play B sides,album tracks, album sides, shit they would be fired tomorrow. You have to play what they pay you and the station to play.

3. Retail- Have u noticed its disappearing. With Tower gone, Sam Goody 75% gone, FYE heading that route, Best Buy cutting its Music stock. Everything is going to be consolidated to a Top40 cds in every store, you soon will have no choice. Labels dont want you to choose, they want to narrow the selection and get you to purchase like you were a zombie, just clueless.

And to further Prince's point, today you would never see Hall and Oates,Kool and the Gang,Prince,Michael,Jovi,Elton,SLy,Stevie all on the same station or playlist...its over people.

lastdecember said:

it's not over...it's just that the party has moved and the old guard doesn't know how to keep up with the new guard. viral marketing, filesharing, online promotion...you got a music television station that doesn't even play music and meanwhile myspace is making people like lily allen, amy winehouse and mika into pop idols.

tower closed because people would rather pay 9.99 (or nothing) for a cd than 17.99 (which really IS robbery).

indie wrecka stows are at an advantage right now because they offer alternatives to the current mainstream chain music shop formula. when indie shops and small/boutique labels can up a retail presence online, we might see some REAL muscle.

nah, it's not over. it's just about to get good.

Anx said:

Actually here in NYC, indie shops are really in trouble, even the ones that depend on selling Used CDs and stuff, they are all feeling the crunch. They are all closing left and right, and the ones that sell new releases are charging 13.99 and up so the 9.99 days are done. Even Best Buy finally is feeling that crunch, you cant sell it for 9.99 when the label charges you 12 bucks for it, especially now when no one is out looking for music. To me i look at it as being over, before it all has to crash and burn, that means eliminate all the media outlets, let MTV and VH1 show their reality shows 24/7, eliminate charts and the whole system, its flawed and they know it. Theres already talks to lower certifications in the USA to 200,000 for Gold and 500,000 for platnum to combat sales going down the drain. Lets face it, when labels cant brag about Gold and Platnum anymore, than they are useless. I think in the coming years you will see the labels shrink so much, you wont see anymore "against the norm" type artists. Universal has already stated the elimination of 100+ contracts to combat falling sales, once again the Consolidation of Labels has led to this.

lastdecember said:

i think specialty stores in NYC like Other Music and Footlight Records are always going to thrive, because people from all over the country (all over the WORLD?) depend on them to be premier resources for specific kinds of recordings. i recently saw a mailing list message from someone in the midwest promoting OM, just because the online store is so popular.

and that's what i mean.

i've seen a lot of indie stores close in chicago, too. it sucks. but indie shops with a strong identity that provide something unique...still around.

as for the 9.99 cd price, i was talking more about iTunes...though thanks to my local indie wrecka stow, i can always find advance copies of new music in the used bins, and i rarely pay over 9.99 for something new (unless i'm just too lazy to look).

as for the artists being cut, i guess a lot of musicians are going to have to ask themselves, are they looking for madonna/american-idol style fame and success, or are they willing to take the dirtier road and maintain artistic freedom, even if it means they can't afford hookers and limos and blow?

look at ani difranco

look at princess superstar

look at sufjan stevens

look at a lot of successful artists who have maintained lifetime careers without giving into the major label game. are they bigshot megarich superstars? maybe not. do they have faithful fan bases and can they support themselves as musicians? looks like it.

maybe this buckling in the industry is fate's way of asking artists what they're really after.

lastdecember said:

Don't tell Butterscotch Pimp any of this, he works at a major!

Anx said:

add to that list amiee mann and meshell ndegeocello. i still don't get why folks complain about mainstream music. if you aint into it just turn your radio and mtv off...i am still buying music and enjoying it at the rate i always have...the internet has replaced the radio and video as my source for new music.

I dont agree with that, in the long run you are gonna lose "the artist" at some point. the more you bombard the public with the same mudane crap then its going to breed. I dont agree that there is the same talent pool as ever, for every Rashann Patterson or Van Hunt there are 1000 Lloyds and NeYo's taking the title of RB? I think there are 2 things that need to happen, the local/indie artists need to band together and change the climate, create a new outlet, and im not talking Myspace here, so far Myspace has spawned a million seller in Cassie and Paula Deanda, dont get me wrong they are hot girls, but talent wise? Myspace is nothing more than another Image/Label thing, and i guarantee at some point like BET and Google and Youtube it will be bought up and consolidated. Lets not forget that "mainstream" is supposed to be what WE make it, it was like that in every decade, till the 90's and onward. (hmmm what happend in the 90's to change the ways???? Soundscam!)

Anx said:

In New York its different, Other Music is still here, but sooner or later wont be, more like sooner. Other store here in NYC is Record Runner, this store owns New York City, i have been going there since 1989, its speciality is imports, vinyl,cds,dvds. Its very small,2 or 3 people run it, its online too, and believe it or not about 10 years ago made over a million dollars and this store is about the size of a NYC studio apartment, but now the climate is changing, the owner told me he has never seen it this bad, NOTHING is coming out, nothing is exciting people, and im not talking what we call mainstream, because they dont sell "mainstream", dont go in there if you dont like artists that started in the 80's or 90's. But i do believe true music fans, like the enviroment are dieing off

lastdecember said:

The indie stores here in the Bay Area basically put the local Sam Goodys and Towers out of business. Tower Records were sellin 28.99 for a cd (8.99 for a single) whereas Rasputin Music down the street had the cd for 7.99. Now, Tower closed down and Rasputin is moving into it's old building
FYE moved to another location because it couldn't compete. You would go to FYE and see about 4 people roaming around then go across the street to Rasputin and see the place PACKED and the lines all the way to the back!
The Berkeley locations for Amoeba and Rasputin put Tower Records nearby in jepoardy in losing loads of cash.

They have a WAYYYY better variety(CDs, Vinyls, Cassettes, DVDs, VHS, laserdisk.....hell I think I saw a Beta tape and some reels one time)

lastdecember said:

myspace is owned by Fox.

what you mean is that Consolidation is killing the music industry. which is fine by me. it means it'll be replaced by something else. you're just mourning the status quo.


and as for "losing the artist"... oh well. instead of worshipping in the cult of Artist X, maybe it'll actually become about, you know, the quality of the songs and music itself. "the artists" you're speaking of have been laying back on their laurels for a long time now.

lastdecember said:

well, hey, the town blacksmith used to do a lot of business too, but nobody's crying for him.

Dayspring said:

exactly...well put

The system is changing. There will always be good music out there.

lastdecember said:

there has always been mostly supreme crap that was selling shitloads for every real talent out there. you just don't remember them from years ago, because memory and longevity weed that shit out over time. that or you're too young to have known them. (i don't know how old you are.)

and as for Prince's statement about consolidation killing music.... it had absolutely nothing to do with his music. so what's the excuse for the death of his music?

Dayspring said:

Not even close. The point is that SHIT will become the status quo. I have no problem with labels going under, but the mere fact that people and artists today good and bad are being bred on SHIT that is going to become norm. I scan through the decades of artists that i have grown up on to what is here today, the bullshit that there will always be good music, is a false belief. Its that philosphy of "you have to search for good music" that led to what is here today. And it has nothing to do with sales, because in terms of "industry" no one is selling, but if you look back, Marvin Gaye never really sold well, Elton John didnt sell well, etc...so that has nothing to do with it and shouldnt. The point is the talent and the respect for music, the process, the way its made, and the way its delivered that is what is consolidated. As for Prince and his music, well its always going to be debated whats good and whats not with him, but i think the bigger issue is you wont see a PRINCE come from these times, and if you say yes or think that there is then you really are missing it.

lastdecember said:

well, truthfully, it's not up to us to decide who the next Prince is going to be, or whatever legendary talent it is. we had our day to rule and do our king-making with pop stars. as always, it's going to be young people who decide who the geniuses are and where the talent is.

pop (culture, music, etc.) is for the young. that's the way it's always been and always will continue to be.

i don't think you really are supposed to think most of the current crop of acts is as great as it was when you were going through your formative, impressionable years.

as much as we love stuff from the 70's, 80's, 90's... the people that were over 30 or 40 at that time thought that stuff was crap compared to what was popular when they were 15 as well.

Dayspring said:

That is true but the problem is the ones making it werent 15-20 years old in any of those decades. Sure we had our Debbie Gibsons and Tiffanys, but nowadays, if you are over 25 you are old and finished and making a comeback, thats the bigger issue. And also the combining of turning ever artist that comes out into not only a music star but putting them on every magazine and on every channel has led to this issue too.

lastdecember said:

back in the old days, they gave them all their own cartoon, and plastered their faces on lunch boxes, so what's the difference?

Dayspring said:

Once again the difference is the majority of who is making the music. A recent fact, someone scanned the Top 100 singles and 200 albums and the average age of the performers were 20-22 years old. Then took a chart from 20 years ago and the average age of the artist was 32. Thats the difference, if you market EVERYTHING to 15 year olds you are going to get crap overall. To me longevity is a big thing, an interview i heard with Jon Bon Jovi the other day when questioned about American Idol and its idea, he basically said "if any of them are taking music seriously and want a career in it, and when i say career im talking 15-25 years and longer than we can talk career and being serious". As each decade passes you will see less and less be able to carry on, take artists from the 70's -80's like a Springsteen or Madonna, Duran,Jovi,Rem, Prince etc...they all still can continue, whether we like them or not. Do you really think Paula Deanda and Lloyd and others are going to even be recording when they are 40? shit they will be lucky if they have a next album.

lastdecember said:[quote]

Dayspring said:

but there r goin to always be artist with varying degree of sucess some will be one hit wonders some will he few hit wonders and some will have longer careers thats true with any decade!

but if u look at the 90s all the artist have mostly faded away even those who had longer careers!
who was huge in 90s

shania twain
celine dion ( well she does the vegas show but she isnt doin much else)
mariah( she had also faded but had a surprising comeback)
paula abdul (late 80s early 90s)
alana morsett
nirvana( maybe thats due to the death of cobain)
perl jam

now look at the stars of the 2000's

50cent( his career is almost finished at least he cashed in)
usher( the verdict is still out)
timberlake( they promoted his album like crazy but its sold 3mil so what)
christina ( her latest album isnt doin to good)
britney (she has gone crazy)
eninem( he is in a downward spiral)

Hell yeah, consolidation killed music. When you have all these labels merged into one, then you have a handful of people who decides who gets a record deal, who gets promoted, and who gets airplay. No airplay, no popularity. No popularity, no sales. No sales, no record deal.

Yeah, there are small independent labels out there and their artists are getting no airplay....unless they are cheap shit hop sounding artists that would never threaten styles to change on the radio. The Barkays continued on with funk in the 1990s when funk was either extinct or scarce. They got absolutely no airplay on R&B stations. In the 2000s, they finally sold out to shit hop and got a little bit of airplay at least.....however their music was no longer shit.

Yes, you can search the highest mountains and deepest oceans for some good music but why the hell should you have to do that. It should be the other way around. People should have to search for the bullshit that's all over the airwaves because it certainly doesn't deserve to be on there. It's only on there because it is cheap to make. Also, as for searching for music, not everyone has a computer. I, myself, don't even have one. I only have access to one at work. They are still too damn expensive for a LOT of people to buy and even if you scrape up enough money to buy one, an internet service with a high enough speed to download music cost too much monthly. When I had a computer, I had a $10 dial up service and it took three or four hours to download one song. Fuck that! Good music needs to be all over the radio again.

And another thing, as for ...."if you don't like what's on the radio, turn it off and listen to what you want"....it's a lot more complicated than that. That's fine if you are married, have children, your life is over, and you sit back and watch your children live their lives and have no life of your own. However, if you plan on being an unmarried permiscuous whore for the rest of your life like I do, that means you have to pick your tricks up in nightclubs. If good music is not popular, you are not going to hear it in nightclubs. Therefore, if you don't get lucky and bring someone home, you have not had an enjoyable evening just sitting around listening to some slow boring ass shit hop all night long.

consolidation isnt good for prince mainly becasue he doesnt like to be restricted to 4-5 majors so he cant be changin companies everytime soon he will run outta new comapnies and that has already happened to him

Exactly. Just look at album tracks like "Lady Cab Driver" that was all over R&B radio back then and was never released as a single. The only thing on the radio these days are singles, and very limited ones at that.

Also, what are considered to be "musicians" these days are no more than overpayed DJs. Think about it, sampling an old record. That's no more than mixing, but instead of mixing with another record, they mix over a drum machine which would probably be easier to control. They also have machines to match the beat and tempo for them. Today's "musicians" don't even have the talent that very talented DJs had back in the day because they have machines to do all the work for them.

Musicians need to start making music again and leave the mixing to the DJs. Both are art forms but DJs can't mix new music if they never have new original "music" to mix. If you mix new music these days, you are just mixing a mix with another mix. Songs don't exist anymore.
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[Edited 5/2/07 18:28pm]

asg said:[quote]

lastdecember said:

But that would be measuring them in terms of sales, Pearl Jam still records and though may not be the sellers they were, they will be here in 20 years easily. Mariah and Shania arent going anywhere, Celine retired herself but she still is all over the place, christina and Beyonce probably will be the only ones from the 00's to stick in music from todays crop. I mean we cant say because someone doesnt sell they arent relevant, if thats the case than Prince is a done deal, i mean he hasnt had a hit single "technically" since 1995, but he still records and puts out music, and i think thats more was an issue here. I think in terms of % you will see the numbers go down year by year and decade by decade, the crap is breeding and the talent is dieing off.

lastdecember said:

totally agree. with today's technology we need to stop measuring stardom with yesterday's measuring stick.

but, andy is right...artist need to step up like ani, steven and aimee have and realize they can make comfortable leavings (wait...extravagant livings) off their music...sans the fame yet enjoy the truth of of their artistry.

and that applies to prince...cause he has been chasing lord knows what the past couple albums (musicology and 3121) and needs to get over it and just enjoy his artistry.

lastdecember said:

It was the beginning of the end when the major record labels (BEFORE consolidation) waited too long to notice the potential of the World Wide Web.

And of course artists like David Bowie & Public Enemy were smart enough to take the chance to test this kind of marketing even when the majors fear it.

Therefore I don't feel sorry for the RIAA at all. I still wishing for everything to continue to fall apart so indie artists of all genres will finally have a fair shot at the spotlight to promote music as a artform again.

Dayspring said:

ouch!

my problem with prince and his music industry crusade is that he wants to be a martyr of the industry and a pioneer, but at the same time he wants to buy luxury cars with irridescent paint jobs and live like a pimp. he accepts these fancypants one-shot record deals with major labels and then after going through all the money, gets pissy when they don't let him do everything exactly the way he wants. he already proved that he can sustain his career with his own boutique label, with his fanbase, and with regular touring. now that he's post-RNRHOF/post-superbowl, he could go back to that business model and be TONS more successful. but i guess that's not high profile enough or something.

either you care about the music or you care about the fame and money. if you care about both then you really should keep your mouth shut unless you're singing a pretty song.

vainandy said:

Funniest thing I think I've ever read on The Org!