Anyone who sucks a pussy/dick to get a contract...

Krytonite said:

is that what I said

JoeTyler said:

That's the first step BEFORE any artist (especially female) start FFT.

NDRU said:

I'm asking you the question.

You know, I saw great promise with this group when they came out with "Behind the Front". I thought they would've carried De La Soul's torch. But no. They just had to go for the money and get that Fergie chick and go uphill and downhill at the same time.

I hate that Kim Hill was replaced . . .

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

She had a nice voice, but reality is, it was a shrewd business move for the BEPs. Without a white female fronting them, they'd have remained a nice enough and largely ignored hip-hop group.

Krytonite said:

Then no, definitely not. Change is good, but selling out is just one kind of change. But here's why I picked them.

Mariah I think you can understand since you made the point about women selling their sexuality rather than their talent. She started out as a singer and ended up as a skanky joke. She lowered herself to the level of a no-talent like Britney.

The others are more complicated. I'm not saying they are definitely sell outs, but a case could be made.

TheAudience made mention of Miles Davis vs. George Benson. Miles was famously accused of selling out, but actually his electric music was more of a challenge to listen to than his bop or cool stuff. It wasn't rock or pop, and it wasn't trendy.

George Benson is a highly capable musician, but Breezin (which has no more challenge than a Kenny G record) and Turn Your Love Around are just jazz for my mom. They don't say anything new, they're just very pleasant.

Quincy worked with the heavyweights in jazz--Miles, Sarah, Frank--and he ended up producing shlocky ballads for James Ingram. He basically has followed whatever is trendy at the time--disco, smooth R&B, hip hop, pop.

Both he & Benson made good pop, and I like it even, but they used their immense gifts arguably just to appeal to wider audiences and get huge paydays.

Al Jarreau may have always walked that line between jazz & pop, so maybe I'm wrong about him.
[Edited 4/12/07 10:57am]

NDRU said:

Thank you for your answer. I just wanted to hear your opinion.

NWF said:

I hate that Kim Hill was replaced with that vapid fake witch

From a musical perspective, everyone at some point becomes a sellout don't they?

Instead of viewing it as a negative, one may also think of the artist as buying into the system to make money:

Case in point: Ice Cube. I have owned most of his albums from Amerikka's Most Wanted and never in a million years would I think of him becoming the gangsta Bill Cosby.

After bitching about the system in many of his earlier songs, he became wiser with age and became a millionaire peddling whatever it is he has to pitch to the public. He is a smart businessman but I don't think he is selling out, but buying into the system.

Same with Prince. All the BS he spouted about con-tracts are very interesting. Since signing a contract was at least partially the reason Musicology made 2004 a banner year, couldn't you argue he betrayed his own principles?.

I would think everyone wants a piece of the pie and would rather be a millionaire for a day than a starving indie artist without recognition for their craft or talent.

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

Thank you. I feel the same way. What amazed me was that the media and music industry pundits didn't consider it a "sell-out" I also considered it a "sell-out" that he GAVE albums away with concert tickets, in order to boost his album sales. Of course, no one in the media or industry mentioned this as being a act of "desperation". Can you imagine the outrage from the media, industry and other artists'fans IF Michael had resorted to such a thing? I remember at one time when Prince took a break from touring because of the death of someone in his band's family member. The album sales dropped from 65,000 a week to around 16,000 a week. It was obvious that the "give-a-ways" were boosting the sales drastically. No one mentioned this in the media.

I consider the queen of sellouts to be Shitney Ass Motherfuckin' Houston. A lot of people don't think she is because she was always a pop artist since day one. However, when I saw a documentary on her a few years ago on the "E" channel, it just confirmed what I already know. When recording her very first album, the producers told her....."Whitney, tone it down, you sound too black. You want a crossover hit don't you?".

vainandy said:

wasn't she booed off stage at the Apollo early in her career? i remember a story like that

It was the soul train award

PricelessHo said:

It was the soul train award,,,,,she got chastised for being white washed and when she made that "Body Guard" movie, that "white wash princess" persona got sealed on her for good.

To this day, I think her marriage with Bobby Brown was a way of rebelling against that notion.

Harlepolis said:

Are you kidding? I remember the reaction of some critics hinting that Whitney should have married Kevin Costner. Yes, THAT'S how much those critcs hated Bobby Brown!
[Edited 4/14/07 21:56pm]

Harlepolis said:

i know this is a terrible thing to say but i wish to death that one day i will be part of an audiance that boos someone off stage

sounds adventourus

(GOD forbid it'll be Ahlam though 'cause i know SHE will be the one booing US)

PricelessHo said:

Ahlam looks like she could pull a Nina Simone, cuss the audience so bad and then tell them to go home after that

TonyVanDam said:

I remember when People magazine made cover feature about her marriage with Bobby(during that period).

Lemme tell you, they were LIVID about it of course, they didn't show it but like you said, they implied it.

Vibe magazine shot back, "white media thinks that Whitney is their princess, what did they think, marry Kevin Costner?".

The day Whitney married Bobby was like the same day Lisa Bonet made those nude pix and that creepy movie(4got its title). Both of them got people pissed.

Presumptions put these ladies through hell
[Edited 4/14/07 23:01pm]

PricelessHo said:

It was the soul train award,,,,,she got chastised for being white washed and when she made that "Body Guard" movie, that "white wash princess" persona got sealed on her for good.

To this day, I think her marriage with Bobby Brown was a way of rebelling against that notion.

Najee said:

Well, that's nothing to be proud of. Maybe he regrets his militancy, and thinks his way of thinking was wrong.

I see both sides as selling out. He was selling an image in the beginning. He's selling an image now. One's no better than the other. One isn't more real than the other.

Did Ice Cube live according to the lyrics he wrote before? Did he give back to his community etc...

Fuck what you heard - I can't wait to sell out.

Harlepolis said:

you know, i was once at a Warda concert. she was so happy 'cause it was her comeback and people were really showin her love untill a lil bit behind the middle of the setlist when two men stood up to leave during a song(and ya know how freakin' LONG each song of hers is) and all we know is the woman stoppin the band and going (allah allah allah EIH DAH?? ana LESSA ba AGHANI!! EIB Keda)

i was wetting myself at them BADLY